It's official: Gyno

[Kroms_laugh]

FUCK!

Oh well... I wanted the surgery anyway because I've heard that people who have a physiological predisposition for gyno will get it no matter the amount of exogeneous test. Even if that's wrong; I have it and surgery is my only option.

Little lump directly behind the actual nipple that's sore as hell. And because it hurts and causes me pain, my insurance considers the surgery a 'medical necessity' and will cover 100% of the cost.

Most of the info/faq sites that I've found about gyno are crap... anyone have any sites in mind that are VERY informative about what I can expect from the sugery and whether or not I still have a chance of developing gyno after the surgery?

BTW... I get my bloodwork back tomorrow, and I'll keep yall posted on the situation. But my doc did diagnose me with gyno.

 

[1cc]

How long have you been on TRT? How long did it take the gyno to develop?

 

[Kroms_laugh]

How long have you been on TRT? How long did it take the gyno to develop?

I've been on HRT since april 13th, 2005. So not long. But keep in mind, I've NEVER had normal levels of test, and there ARE people who are sensative to even 'low-normal' levels of estrogen.

BTW... my protocol is 250mg every 10 days right now with no anti-e's or hCG. I know, I know.. it'll change as soon as I can find a good doc.

 

[HeadDoc]

can't this be reversed pharmaceutically? KL, sorry to hear the news. Pat

 

[SWALE]

IMPO, I would not recommend mastectomy for a couple of small "lumps". Frank gynocomastia is the development of mammary tissue, and I would not sustain the discomfort and risk of surgery in absence of same. These painful lumps can be caused by mere changes in hormone levels, and often disappear once things equalize.

The answer to HeadDoc's question is "yes". I'd try high dose SERM therapy for awhile first.

On the other hand, if you have it removed--ALL of the glandular tissue--you will never have gyno again. You also then will not be at risk for male breast cancer (I have been First Assist on two bilateral mastectomies on males for this disease).

You definitely do need estrogen control. Gyno is a common presenting symptom of hypogonadism. Usually it clears once hormones are properly tuned up, though.

 

[Joffa]

Swale, do they ever remove all the glandular tissue? I thougth they leave a
button sized amount to support the nipple?

BTW, Kroms_laugh, do a search for "gyno"; someone here recently went thru gyno surgery, and there was lots of discussion about pre and post op if you're interested in having surgery.

*edit* I found the thread: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134235478

~Joffa

 

[earthdog]

I know, I know.. it'll change as soon as I can find a good doc.

You too must make the Pilgrimage to the Man-Cave, my son!

 

[mranak]

And because it hurts and causes me pain, my insurance considers the surgery a 'medical necessity' and will cover 100% of the cost.

I think my gyno just started to 'hurt and cause me pain'. Well, it hurts my 'personal feelings', anyway.

Seriously, I will gladly go through the trauma of having my mammary glands removed if my insurance company is willing to pick up the tab. You should rejoice that your insurance company is willing to pick up the tab so easily. Many guys much pay out of pocket. Spending $5,000....now THAT is painful.

All of that said, if you wish to avoid surgery, then it only makes sense to at least try running a course of Nolvadex. Many guys also have success running Femara (letrozole), purposely bringing their estradiol down to low levels. If you do that, then it is important for your physician to monitor your lipid profile.

 

[Kroms_laugh]

I've heard that people can be sensative to even regular levels of test/estrogen. That might be my case.

SWALE, that was really my intention (getting the surgery to make sure it doesn't come back). I'm going to wait and see if it could present a problem both cosmetically and physiologically. I had these same lumps during puberty when I started getting body hair. I've finally had to get a decent electric razor because, for the first time in my life, I have facial hair (at 23). That may be what's happening... so I'll wait and see.

Oh yeah... and my estradiol came back 'low/normal'. I didn't get the exact number or range, but I go in to see my Endo on the 22nd and I'll post it as soon as I find out.

 

[Axl]

Kroms,
Can I ask you 2 questions? I hope you will not be offended...
In a previous thread you have mentioned that you have hypogonadism (like myself). You have just mentioned that, with TRT, you just started having facial hair. Great for you. I still have none of that (only a soft and sparse teenage moustache). How long did it take before you noticed something?

There is one thing that amazes me: if I look at your picture I see a very muscular bodybuilding guy. How did you succeed in building up all that muscle?? I thought you were hypogonadal??? My body has never built up enough muscle (to look like a man), not even after a very professional training program. I still look like a skinny teenager, but I'm 32...

 

[tres]

why not nolvadex at 40-60 mgs a dat till pain goes away then 10 mgs for a month or so??? i hear that works for many guys,..i would try anything before i would get my body cut!

 

[Joffa]

I've heard that people can be sensative to even regular levels of test/estrogen. That might be my case.

SWALE, that was really my intention (getting the surgery to make sure it doesn't come back). I'm going to wait and see if it could present a problem both cosmetically and physiologically. I had these same lumps during puberty when I started getting body hair. I've finally had to get a decent electric razor because, for the first time in my life, I have facial hair (at 23). That may be what's happening... so I'll wait and see.

Oh yeah... and my estradiol came back 'low/normal'. I didn't get the exact number or range, but I go in to see my Endo on the 22nd and I'll post it as soon as I find out.

Yes, people can be naturally prone to gyno; I am. I had surgery 2 years ago to remove. However, everything I've read says docs do not remove the entire gland; they leave a small amount to support the nipple. Therefore, it can come back if you don't use your anti-e's!

There is one thing that amazes me: if I look at your picture I see a very muscular bodybuilding guy. How did you succeed in building up all that muscle?? I thought you were hypogonadal??? My body has never built up enough muscle (to look like a man), not even after a very professional training program. I still look like a skinny teenager, but I'm 32...

I dunno if I'm hypogonadal, but I developed gyno as a teenager naturally and always have had patchy facial hair. It is extremely hard for me to put on muscle even with a strict diet and very hard training regimen. But it is possible to get bigger! Here is what it takes for me to gain muscle nowadays: AAS + 5x5 program + eating 8-9 meals per day. Don't give up; everyone in my family tells me I don't have the genetics to compete in bodybuilding. This spring I hit 232 lbs. Started at 155 lbs. 6 years ago. Axl, what is your training/diet like? What's your history with AAS ? Maybe you can improve in some areas. It just takes more work than the average person.

~Joffa

 

[nsashbl]

Bro, listen to Swale. Surgery is a radical step to try first. Get on Nolva before getting cut. There is always a risk when getting cut, so why chance a medical mistake before exhausting all options? I am very, very gyno sensitive. I get knots with any hormonal changes, or even if I change injection frequency! I end up on Nolva more than 50% of the time, but it's no big deal. Lipid profile is fine, and I don't have to butcher my body. Look around, some gyno repair looks like crap. I would only go that route if nothing else worked.

Just my.02, good luck....

 

[mranak]

My body has never built up enough muscle (to look like a man), not even after a very professional training program. I still look like a skinny teenager, but I'm 32...

Did that training program include low reps/heavy weights, lots of protein, plenty of calories, and a decent amount of rest? If not, then your training program is suspect.

Hypogonadal men are at a disadvantage when it comes to building muscle of course, but they are still at an advantage over women.

 

[Axl]

Did that training program include low reps/heavy weights, lots of protein, plenty of calories, and a decent amount of rest? If not, then your training program is suspect.

Hypogonadal men are at a disadvantage when it comes to building muscle of course, but they are still at an advantage over women.

Mranak: My training program included all of that. I was under the supervision of a Qualified Sportsdoctor - Nutricionist. He thought he could help me out, and when he noticed I made no gains despite his program he ran a complete test and discovered (=proved) my hypogonadism. Thanks to him other doctors started to believe me. Before that I was just "lagging" a bit in my development. Blood tests showed otherwise. I have NEVER taken anabolic steroids.

 

[Joffa]

Mranak: My training program included all of that. I was under the supervision of a Qualified Sportsdoctor - Nutricionist. He thought he could help me out, and when he noticed I made no gains despite his program he ran a complete test and discovered (=proved) my hypogonadism. Thanks to him other doctors started to believe me. Before that I was just "lagging" a bit in my development. Blood tests showed otherwise. I have NEVER taken anabolic steroids.

Why not get some test in ya then and see if you can grow? Your body is naturally lacking it, why not use AAS to raise it up? Are you on HRT?

~Joffa

 

[Axl]

Why not get some test in ya then and see if you can grow? Your body is naturally lacking it, why not use AAS to raise it up? Are you on HRT?

~Joffa

Yes I am on HRT. See this thread for my current regimen.
https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134236496

 

[Kroms_laugh]

Kroms,
Can I ask you 2 questions? I hope you will not be offended...
In a previous thread you have mentioned that you have hypogonadism (like myself). You have just mentioned that, with TRT, you just started having facial hair. Great for you. I still have none of that (only a soft and sparse teenage moustache). How long did it take before you noticed something?

There is one thing that amazes me: if I look at your picture I see a very muscular bodybuilding guy. How did you succeed in building up all that muscle?? I thought you were hypogonadal??? My body has never built up enough muscle (to look like a man), not even after a very professional training program. I still look like a skinny teenager, but I'm 32...

I'm three generations deep into the sport of bodybuilding. I was blessed with good genetics. My grandfather and father, who are both hypogonadal, were bodybuilders and very successful at that.

 

[Kroms_laugh]

Bro, listen to Swale. Surgery is a radical step to try first. Get on Nolva before getting cut. There is always a risk when getting cut, so why chance a medical mistake before exhausting all options? I am very, very gyno sensitive. I get knots with any hormonal changes, or even if I change injection frequency! I end up on Nolva more than 50% of the time, but it's no big deal. Lipid profile is fine, and I don't have to butcher my body. Look around, some gyno repair looks like crap. I would only go that route if nothing else worked.

Just my.02, good luck....

Thanks for your input, bro. I'm very much in the dark about Nolvadex as a form of estrogen control. There is a ton of information on Nolva as an E suppressant in "cycle high" bodybuilding regimens, but almost nothing concerning irregular use to control gyno in an HRT patient.

SWALE,
Is this (Nolvadex) something I should bring up with my doctor? Do you give scripts for Nolva to your patients?

 

[mranak]

SWALE's "TRT: A Recipe for Success" mentions that he uses Nolvadex in case of gyno symptoms.

If you don't mind my asking, could you describe the pain that you have from your gyno?