leg press or squat? important question

[kethnaab]

Today's training tip comes from Charles Poliquin:

Leg Press vs. Squat

*snip*

I've personally worked with speed skaters whose legs made Tom Platz's look like Woody Allen's.

hahhaa...Charlie was obviously drunk, stoned, or both when he wrote that one.

 

[Ramstein II]

My hurt back says. ..

If you look at the machine versus free weight studies you'll see that working out on a machine makes you strong on the machine but not the free weight counterpart. Working out on freeweights will make you strong on the free weight exercise and in many cases on the machine counterpart.

However, most exercise physiologists would group leg press and squats together in the same category because they are both linear constant resistance compound exercises. Exercise physilogists would say that the more important difference would be in whether the resistance is variable (ie. uses a cam and cable) or isolated (e.g. leg extension versus leg press).

When you look at the few studies on constant resistance machines versus freeweights like leg press vs. squat you see that the net result is not significantly different.

However, empirical evidence says otherwise. Most strength coaches use squats over leg press in the belief that it is more functional. This has not been proven to be the case when it comes to running. Maybe it is in the case of vertical jump from static position because of the similarity.

The other argument is that freeweight squats are superior because of the neuron stimulation from balancing which incorporates more muscle fibers. This true. However, the balancing also reduces the intensity (amount of weight) whereas in a balanced exercise, like legpress you can use more weight which will make up difference.

The fact is that tension on a muscle is tension no matter whether it is a bar on your back or pushing a platform. The muscle built from a leg press can be trained to do everything the muscle built from a squat can do.

If you add 2 inches to your legs from a leg press, your legs are stronger!

Even if squats are superior for size and strength. How much so? 1% 5%?

I don't know. I make this argument because I squated for 20 years and then severly injured my back. If I could take back every set of squats I did over 20 years I would.

Thankfully, my back has made a full recovery without surgery by some tiny chance about the same as a snowball's chance in hell. I'm here to tell you that the snowball wins sometimes. Not often though.

Along my journey to recovery I've met a lot people who were like me. They grew up in the gym and swore by squats. I did. However, i started getting irritating back pain, muscle pulls, etc... It starts minor. Everybody I met had the same experience. then, bam, you're injured maybe for life.

It seems that some can squat 1,000 pounds and have no injuries. However, if you show signs of susceptibility to back injury from squats, DONT DO THEM.

You can build monster legs on leg presses. Many, if not most, pro bodybuilders don't do squats anymore.

So, my advice is to weigh the cost against the benefit. I personally think leg press is as effective or "close enough" to squats even if injury is not a concern. But, if I'm dead wrong you still have to weigh the risk of injury to your back from squats agains the extra growth you think you'll get from loading your back with hundreds of pounds and squating up and down.

 

[z_stephenson]

honestly, I do squats primarily with leg press as an accessory lift after the squats. I dont think there is that much significant difference between which can build muscle. Both exercises work. Its the majority of people that load 8, 14, 20 plates on the leg press(even squats as well) and then go down 1/4 of the way that truly makes the difference. If they were actively performing the lift at their full range of motion, along with a weight they can handle then I do not see a problem. Face it though, the majority of people do not lift correctly, and that is where the difference is. Also, squats in general are an exercise that often scare people away, because bad form leads to injuries and many people do not know proper form(on anything, sadly) /rantoff

 

[Grizzly]

Damn, Ramstein, where you been, dude?

 

[Ramstein II]

Good to be back

Hey, Grizz. Man, I spent about 12 months in recovery from my damn back injury. I maintained a good workout along the way. Just didn't feel like writing while I was hurt. By some remarkable freak of nature it seems like I got better in a day. It was the weirdest freak'n thing. A year of pain and then something happened and it just went away. I don't question it.

My Doctors don't really know what was giving me the pain. The general diagnosis was sprained back along with herniated disc.

I checked in here now and then, just didn't post (like a hurt dog laying under the bed!). Anyway, I'm all "normal" again.

 

[Girth]

J_Dub's post regarding the marketable writings of Mr. Poloquin, was both comical and correct. In certain sports, it's the sport that shapes the athlete, not the weight training they MAY do.

As for the debate, I'm always of the belief that weight training performed whilst moving the body through space, will always give better results than the same movement done stationary. Pull-ups vs. pulldowns for example. Pullups win every time.

But I've yet to be injured, and my logical mind will only accept weight training that best carries over to real life. The perils of pragmatism!

 

[MANWHORE]

I'm always of the belief that weight training performed whilst moving the body through space, will always give better results than the same movement done stationary. Pull-ups vs. pulldowns for example. Pullups win every time.

.. Because of a higher stimulation of the central nervous system .. yes .. I have always been saying this BUT this goes more toward strength increases .. OK With size comes strength but that depends on training .. Nerve discharge is one thing but legpress can be easier to hit more fibers .. cant explain now have to go help wife but legpress is easier to pinpoint tension on the working muscles .. quads,hams because no need to have to worry about balance and bad form caused by balance .. sorry have to go you get the point .. Training with squats is good for core strength and should be done .. thanks

 

[Denkallberry]

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to be too disparaging, and I don't know much about leg presses since I hardly ever do them. I used to go to one of these health clubs and squat in a cage next to one of the leg presses. Some guy would have the sides and top of the press loaded up, along with his girlfriend up there, while I'm trying to grunt 600. One exercise is an ego builder, the other is a strength builder, ego builder, and a much better measurement of functional strength. It's up to the individual to decide what his honest goals are.

Even if you aren't capable of a regular bar squat, then it's still worth it to try safety bar and zercher squats before resorting to leg presses.

 

[MANWHORE]

AND when the heck did you become a mod? .. I will just end it with this .. Legpress is a very good exercise used for building muscle .. Alot of guys NEVER squat and build big legs .. However,without squating,your limiting increases in core strength,and IMO,that's not good .. Squats are not magic,like many would like you to believe .. You can't just squat and grow,you have to squat intensly and alot of guys give up to early in a set because of stamina issues,which makes legpress far better for them in terms of muscle growth. some guys can't squat with proper form either .. Also,when done correctly,both exercises don't work the same muscles .. Squats work the hams and glutes and legpress works the quads (yes all leg muscles are being worked with both but most tension in that way) .. I like to do OLY squats for a few sets to get a good stretch and warmup,then i go to hacks with my feet high concentrating on my hams and glutes .. I don't do legpress but i think about it sometimes after hacks because the machine is right there .. i just never seem to have time as other exercises are more important, .. calf raises for one ... If you have limited time in the gym,i say stay with squats over legpress anyday,but after you get down squat form and have more time,throw in legpress

 

[DonkeyKong]

Today's training tip comes from Charles Poliquin:

Leg Press vs. Squat

When comparing squats against leg press, squats are far more effective in increasing overall strength. However, there's some evidence to suggest that the leg press might result in more hypertrophy of the quadriceps. One study showed that for the same number of reps, the leg press resulted in a higher amount of GH being produced than squats. As possible evidence, the leg press is the exercise of choice when it comes to speed skating, and I've personally worked with speed skaters whose legs made Tom Platz's look like Woody Allen's. While I'm loathe to recommend leg presses instead of squats, I merely present it as an interesting discussion point.

I like Poliquin but that speed skater comment was retarded.

 

[MANWHORE]

Speed skaters need more quads which is what legpress works more and squats work hams so there you go ... Like i said before,speed skaters don't have big legs because they skate,they skate because they have big legs .. genetics plays a major role in all sports ..

 

[MikeP]

Manwhore says that squats hit the hams and glutes. I've heard that before but my quads always get pumped when I squat and my hams/glutes only seem to feel it when I squat and deadlift in the same workout.Does foot spacing have anything to do with it? I use what I would call a medium width and always go deep as possible. For some reason legpresses always seemed to hurt my back.

 

[Girth]

Glutes/hams are engaged in the lowest portions of the squat. That said, perhaps you aren't going low enough. Regardless however, the pump you feel in your legs will almost always be greater in your quads. I don't care to know the mechanisms for such, but I've never had a "pumped" ass, regardless of the lift. Even the glute/ham raise doesn't really pump my hams, it just wears them out.

 

[MikeP]

I didn't think that my hams or ass should get a pump I guess I should have said that they dont really even seem to get tired or sore. I always squat till my ass is on my calves. We gotta quit using pump to talk about glutes,sounds a little

 

[MANWHORE]

Manwhore says that squats hit the hams and glutes. I've heard that before but my quads always get pumped when I squat and my hams/glutes only seem to feel it when I squat and deadlift in the same workout.Does foot spacing have anything to do with it? I use what I would call a medium width and always go deep as possible. For some reason legpresses always seemed to hurt my back.

well OLY squats will hit quads yes sorry .. try boxsquats .. they will help squat weight increase better and use legpress for quads .. Push from your heals also .. your quads are getting stimulation in the lower portion because your letting the weight go to your balls of your feet ..

 

[hackskii]

A benefit of the squat over leg press is while squating your body releases Testosterone and GH more than while leg pressing this is because there is a larger amount of muscle mass activated throughout the entire body while squating, the same can also be said of deadlifts thats why deadlifts and squats are regarded as the most anabolic exercises out there.

True story here, dead lifts too.


I have done both and in my opinion squats give you a much better leg. Some of the biggest and best looking legs I have ever seen were developed from squats.
I have done both and squats gave me a better leg.

Better core strength too with many more other muscles worked.

 

[MANWHORE]

If you have one to choose from,then it is definitaly squats without a doubt .. Anything moving body through space is best for strength .. Pushups,pullups,squats,deads ...

 

[MikeP]

You're right about the weight transferring to the balls of my feet.I know not to squat in shoes with a heel,but I cant find any suitable shoes I can afford. I'm sure there are some that aren't too expensive but two kids and bills make it hard to justify. I was thinking about some Chucks but damn,40 bucks for those cheesy ass shoes!Maybe I'm just to cheap.At home I was squatting barefoot for awhile and I actually liked it better.What are everyones thoughts on that? I'm sure some people will say you need the support of shoes to prevent injury but I never had any problems.

 

[z_stephenson]

rofl, to be honest... buying some chucks was the best thing I've added to my training, though it wasnt necesarry. I was doing squats/deads and such bare foot, but that doesnt abide to well at your local "fitnes center." Factor in the fact that you look rediculous wearing them; It was a no brainer for me.

Zach

 

[Grizzly]

Speed skaters need more quads which is what legpress works more and squats work hams so there you go ... Like i said before,speed skaters don't have big legs because they skate,they skate because they have big legs .. genetics plays a major role in all sports ..

Patently false. Your sport very much shapes your body. While it may be true that the elite skaters are elite because of genetics for big legs, an average genetic possessing fellow will still develop bigger legs by skating.

What you just said, manwhore, amounts to bodybuilders have big muscles because they have big muscles. While it's true that most people won't look like Ronnie, they'll still develop bigger muscles through resistance training.