Long Cycles or Blast/Cruise Cycles?

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Blue09, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. #1
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    I have always been "taught" that longer cycles are the way to go. Was reading around and someone pointed me in the direction of DoggCrapp's idea of cycling called Blasting then Cruising. Here's the basic concept

    DC:

    Without sounding cocky I am a very advanced bodybuilder down here in San Diego--cruising at 285lbs or so and going up over 300 this year (again) I came from a very very hard gaining and skinny genetic structure (140lbs about 10 years ago)so gains have never come easy and I didnt start super supplements until I was 225 clean (took me 6 years). (I use food as my chief anabolic) What I am amazed at is the number of 180 to 220lb bodybuilders on the net who spend ungodly amounts of money and use so many different exotic compounds thinking that it is the endall super stack of all stacks. And they take huge, huge risks in trying to acquire these drugs. I have had an abundance of pro and top amateur friends to gain the knowledge that pretty much -these top people in the sport are blasting high amounts of test as the base drug in the offseason to put on pro size with mostly one (sometimes two) other compounds (usually fina, or equipoise or some other non exotic drug). (and gh if it can be afforded). I firmly believe you will gain 2 times the amount of muscle off of 2 grams of test either alone or with another compound than having some kind of exotic stack involving 3 to 6 exotic hard to get expensive compounds. The receptor site theories have proven to be bunk. The cheapest and best stack I can think of anyone doing to put on major size is a gram or two of test with arimidex to keep water off with fina 75 to 150mg every other day for 4 weeks --then 2 to 3 weeks of cruising (test at 300-400mg and clomid at 5 (day one), 4(day two), 3(day three),then 2 every day for 2 weeks)--and then back on everything full again (maybe equipoise used instead of fina this time)for 4 weeks (then 2 to 3 weeks cruising again etc etc)---if you cant gain gobs of muscle on that nothing exotic (masteron, etc etc etc) surely isnt going to do it for you. testosterone is always the base for any gaining cycle of any pro freind Ive had or top people with whom I talked with off record. I have never even been over 1000mg of test myself (yet) but I see guys spending and using 10 times the amount I do weighing 70lbs less. I think there is a major problem when the easiest, cheapest and most potent things are right in front of people and they are off searching for substance B-737 undecylate in bulgaria

    Sorry bout that, I wrote that post quickly and I should of been a little more responsible with saying-those dosages are what I am seeing superheavies who have been around for a while doing. I am of the opinion that people should use the lowest dosages possible that will keep them gaining. If a newbie bodybuilder starts off with 2 grams of T every week and a high dose of fina etc etc and eventually taps out on that where is he going to go? 4000 a week? I believe one should make their way up 750, to 1000 to 1200 to 1500 and so on slowly thru cycles. I am an advocate of the 4 week on 2 week cruising (then back on) method not because of receptor site saturation but due to 3 very important (to me) factors...1)I lift extremely heavy and I push the limits for 4 weeks and I just need 2 weeks to kind of regroup myself and then go balls to the wall again with poundages for the next 4 weeks
    2)Same with food intake-I religiously get in 500 to 600 grams of protein and I have to give myself a little break for those 2 weeks(i only go down to 400grams or so) or I'll go crazy
    3) I think its of utmost importance to keep yourself regulated hpta wise. If your endogenous test levels diminish due to constant months of high androgens when you do finally come off those size gains fly out the door...if you can keep your endo test somewhat normal you wont get the huge problems that keep most bodybuilders bouncing up and down in bodyweight like yo yo's..namely getting colds and flu's/injuries/depression/lack of aggresion and appetite (which usually means test to estrogen ratio out of whack)...During the cruising period the 400mg of test will keep you from losing any muscle at all and the clomid and arimidex will get you as close (via 2 different routes) to homeostasis as possible.
    As far as GH, I have never used it and I wish I could. But the cost is just too much for me at this time. From what I've witnessed short cycles will not do anything so unless I can run it for at least 6 months I am not going to bother. Opinions down here vary but most follow Milos's lead and do 5 days on 2 days off at 6IU's a day or 6 days on 4 off.



    Do you feel that this is the way to go with cycling or do you feel that longer cycles would create better and more sustainable gains?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  2. #2
    Nate Dawg

    Nate Dawg Junior Member

    The problem with that is that there is no off period where he says to come off. If you are planning on staying on test for the rest of your life then I think that would be a good way to do it, after a few of the blast cycles maybe come down to 300mg/week for around 8-10 weeks so you dont stress your body too much, just a good dose to keep your test levels in the high range.

    Another problem is, when he drops down to the cruising period of the cycle where he says to take 300-400mg/week of test and supplement with arimidex and clomid, there is no way your body is going to recover normal HPTA function when you are recieving supraphysiological doses of test, you are still going to remain shut down, might as well stay at a gram of test in my opinion because you arent going to be doing any good to the HPTA even when you come down to 300-400mg/week.

    The only way to recover the HPTA is to completely come off. Clomid and arimidex isnt going to do shit for your recovery of natty test when you are still on synthetic test, no way, this has been proven many times.

    Say that you did decide to come off for two weeks between your 4 week blasting cycles, that is too short of a time period for your HPTA to recover anyways, especially considering since the test that was being run was probably either cypionate or enanthate, after two weeks from the last shot the test will just be clearing out, so basically there would be no absolutely clean "off" period in there. Even if you were running a gram of prop, which would fucking hurt, that would be cleared out pretty fast, and 2 weeks still would not be enough time to recover HPTA function.

    This whole cycle plan is just a bad idea if you want to keep the boys alive, if you want to go on HRT, go for it.

    I would stay stick with the conventional cycle of 8-12 weeks and follow proper pct, or else run several blitz cycles, something like 4 weeks on 3 weeks off, run 3-5 of those back to back, preferably with hcg while on cycle, then take at least a 12 week break. There is no possible way to recover when you are still administering supraphysiological doses of testosterone. Wish it worked that way, but it doesnt.
     
  3. #3
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    i would rather stay on 250mg test/week and increase to 500mg when i feel like cycling and use nothing else besides aromasin/arimidex and hcg during. if i come off, ill use aromasin, nolva and HCG if i do ever come off.

    if you are serious about BB or PLing, you wont come off though so the above is what i would do and i think i am..for a long time at least..maybe a couple years.
     
  4. #4
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    that way of using gear is the dumbest fucking thing ive ever heard. you are always on, why try to recover while on? :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek:
     
  5. #5
    Nate Dawg

    Nate Dawg Junior Member

    My way is the dumbest way of using gear? Are you sure on that? That is how most people run their cycles, 8-12 weeks on. When you say try to recover while on, are you talking about the use of hcg while on cycle? I have used HCG on my past two long cycles at 250IU two times a week, no nut shrinkage, and when I came off pct was a total breeze, kept all my strength and most of my size, just lost the water. That HCG protocol is given by Swale, and he knows his stuff. For post cycle I took nolva, trib, and zma, easy recovery since the addition of HCG while on cycle.

    I agree if you are serious about bbing or pl'ing, then yes you have to stay on cycle.
     
  6. #6
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    im referring to DC's cycles. your cycles are cool.
     
  7. #7
    Nate Dawg

    Nate Dawg Junior Member

    OK, I figured that I misunderstood you, but since you quoted what i said I thought that you were referring to me, sorry about getting all defensive :)
     
  8. #8
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    its cool. i just dont agree with his way of cycling. either on or off.
     
  9. #9
    seand95

    seand95 Junior Member

    Bro, If your interested in short anabolic cycles, pick up "Building the Perfect Beast". L. Rea is a very informed induvidual and your much better off getting your info from a man that devotes his time and money to learning about biochemistry and AAS rather than experiment on himself and post on meso. Btw, I am trying out one of his protocols currently and its awsome. 5 days in to it and I already feel and see the gains! Oh, and his pct routine is well worth a try.
     
  10. #10
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    More on the blast/cruise:

    Do I believe clomid and arimidex will work better at getting your endo test back to normal without any exogenous testosterone in the system? yes.... Do I believe that because there is 300-400mg (at least) of exogenous test in the system that clomid and arimidex will do nothing to regulate a persons endo test? absolutely not and I know better from the people I train and myself.

    We are trying to reach a middle ground here if you go off the 300-400mg cruising dosage you will start losing muscle rapidly, if you dont do the clomid and arimidex during the cruising period your hpta will become more and more impaired. I am trying to keep someone as normal hormonally wise as possible while he is on a cycle so when he finally gets off a cycle that muscle stays there. 300mg a week of testosterone is slighly above a replacement dose for an Aids patient or test replacement therapy, so i do believe the the clomid/arimidex will do a great deal. In fact I think it is imperiative. If you find yourself getting sick during cycles or directly after or losing muscle rapidly after you get off (I am very sure my way will rectify that). I hate seeing someone go 12-16 weeks on a cycle with awesome gains and then get off and pow...2-3 weeks fighting a cold...feels crappy and lethargic...no appetite...takes him 45 days just to feel back to normal even with clomid and hcg then he steps on the scale and that 27lb bodyweight jump he just made turned into 8lbs (sometimes even less)---thats a waste of time to me and the guy waited too long to regulate himself...the body cant snap back that quickly(and he would of fixed the whole problem doing it my way)
     
  11. #11
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    ...and another

    someone messaged me and said they didnt like the idea of only a 4 week cycle. You lost the concept--its not a 4 week cycle at all----its a way of cycling year round non stop or for any length of time you decide---if you run high androgens for a long time or year round and wait until you get off to use clomid and arimidex in the hope of getting normalized quickly you'll be in for a surprise. Boom, depression, sickness, lethargy, rapid muscle loss--- You're endo testosterone and most likely your immune system (with the lowered testosterone) will be impaired to a point too low to bounce back quickly.
    My way you blast for 4 weeks--then take 2 weeks (clom/arim/test) and get your endo test and hopefully the immune system back in check without losing any muscle and then go another 4 weeks blasting--then again 2 weeks of clomid with arimidex and testosterone enanth 300-400mg ---and then blast again etc etc ect-----its not a 4 week cycle at all--its months or years straight if someone wants it to be (i wouldnt use fina straight thru like that though). The quickest way (i didnt say the safest) to the most muscle is
    sadly to stay on...I would hate to see the testicular atrophy (nevermind endo testosterone levels) of someone who went on for a year straight full dosage thinking clomid and hcg at the very end would take care of him
     
  12. #12
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    -bump-
     
  13. #13
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    sorry blue09, 300mg IS NOT A REPLACEMENT DOSE FOR HRT. you're on a forum with an HRT FORUM in it, you should know that HRT is 100mg/week +/- and certainly no where near 200mg.

    BTW, there is a member on this board who took 250mg test/week and recovered fine using hcg, aromasin and nolva. not sure of the length though but if he reads this, he might chime in. im actually planning on staying on 250mg/week and do cycles of only test at 500mg. like 12-16 weeks of 500mg and then drop to 250mg for a couple months and if i wish to go again, then 500mg again. with aromasin as well.
     
  14. #14
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    Read the additional posts. You never completely recover, but this way, your HPTA will not be quite as suppresed, as opposed to if you ran it straight thru. Altho this is not as good as going straight off, it is better than staying on completely. It will also yield better gains than if you were to come off completely....it's sort of a cycle in the middleground....
     
  15. #15
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    actually, if you are staying on, you're fucked. thats how i look at it. once you make that decision to stay on, then thats your commitment. if you never completely recover, why bother? why bother even messing with the HPTA at all if its getting good test levels? one thing i know for sure is, its better to be on 250mg then to cycle on and off with high doses. it isnt healthy for the endocrine system, might as well keep it constant and accept the fact you cannot come off. i wouldnt be staying on 1000mg though. 250-500mg max. if you cant make anymore gains after you stayed on 500mg for years, then its time to move on but at that level you should be absolutely enormous if you saturated diet/training.
     
  16. #16
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    I don't know if you'd be completely "fucked". Im sure by taking hcg, anti-E's, trib, etc. and taking extensive time off, you could get your HPTA back into order....of course it would take a good about of time.

    With your way of staying on for an extensive period of time, could you up the dosage of test to 750-1000mg of Test for 8-10wks or there abouts and then come back to the dosage of 250-500mg/wk or would that just mess everything up?
     
  17. #17
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    once your shutdown, you are shutdown. 250 or 1000mg. however 1000mg will shut you down harder and longer than 250mg. that is the only difference. but i dont see what the point is in going to 750-1000mg? why? if you stay on 250mg and cant add anymore size, then you're diet/training is off. if you have maxed out (by obviously looking at yourself huge/strong and perfected diet/training etc) at 250mg, then take it to 500mg and you will have a couple more years to max that out too. 500mg test can support an enormous amount of fuckin muscle. you only naturally have 28-70mg/week naturally and there are some big guys at their natural max but nothing freaky. put them on 250mg and let them max out they will be enormous, now 500. it is huge, i just see no point in doing like 750mg for 10 weeks then coming off, etc. what is the point of taking 750, why not do 250-500mg? all it is, is a higher test level, right? but "you're" not maxed out on 500mg, or even 250mg. why not ? because you're MOSTLY OFF!! so you are normally at 28-70mg/week so there is no point in going 1000mg. in my opinion, the pros can probably stay on 750mg/week + because they have maxed out 500mg for sure. this means that if they bring their dosage of test BELOW 500mg, THEY WILL LOSE MASS!! thats what i mean about test levels supporting muscle. you know u can only support so much naturally. thats why people juice. to be able to have more muscle than they can naturally. but if u dont stay on, then u will never be huge unless you are on, cycling or staying on. i just dont believe in cycles. it takes a while to understand it but its very simple. 250mg/week is alot of test to have forever. and i wouild not mind staying on that dose. however i would want to go to 500mg but just for a couple months but im sure if i max at 250mg, then going up to 500 and coming back down to 250mg will make me lose mass. but that is the max i would go = 500mg. thats 5 times the normal amount a GIFTED PERSON PRODUCES NATURALLY. i agree 500mg produces more effects than 250mg but it stops there. after that, it is just too much for the body.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2005
  18. #18
    Blue09

    Blue09 Junior Member

    Great info their bro. I definetly see your point and agree completely. One thing that still concerns me tho, is will my natural test and HPTA be completely ruined for the rest of my life....AKA use HRT for the rest of my life? I am still relatively young compared to most on this board....I don't want to be in my late 20's/early 30's because I stayed on for 2-3yrs and could never recover. Would running hcg for say 1/2 the yr if not year 'round help in this department or am I basically screwed if I want to come completely off?
     
  19. #19
    Starkraven

    Starkraven Junior Member

    im 22 myself. there are many people that run hcg during the cycle to avoid being completely shutdown but i dont know about that. im not disagreeing, but i think once you are shutdown, you are shutdown til you come off the test. people cycle to avoid ruining their HPTA. i think that cycling on/off isnt very healthy to the endocrine system but it depends. if you are dead serious about BB/PLing, then staying on is what most people do. i believe that cycling just repeats your gains. you're never going to be above your natural max unless you stay on, so why juice in the first place? you're only going to hold what you can naturally if you are off cycle. and when you come off a 10-12 week cycle, it isnt like you're back to your natural levels. you are BELOW NATURAL LEVELS. you will be low for a while until you restore those levels. ok so thats 4-6 weeks minimum for most, some more. i used tren with test last cycle which was 12 weeks AGO AND I AM STILL NOT RECOVERED!! from this last experience, i decided i am going to get back on 250mg test/week and stay on and if i shut my body down for good, then oh well, ill get on HRT. at least i will NEVER EVER have low test levels again.

    id rather be on 100-250mg test/week (100 is HRT) rather than to save up a bunch of loot and WASTE it on 750-1000mg test/week for 10 weeks not to mention getting it from the illegal black market only to find out i will be shut down AFTERWARDS with no test for many weeks AND FINALLY JUST BACK TO MY NORMAL LEVELS. so what the fuck did i just do? its even worse than before i started.
     
  20. #20
    Anth

    Anth Junior Member

    Im pretty much in the same position im 23 and have been on test for the same amouts of time .. if we came of and ran hcg and clomid how long would our recovery be taking between 4-12 weeks at a well below normal test level resulting in a massive weight loss? Also is it just me or are you guys worried about your boys as i would still like to have kids on day !!! ?? Or am i just worring about nothing ?

    Anth
     

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