Looking for Blood Tests - Trenbolone Only Stacks

[jJjburton]

i have 7 vials of teen. i was going to run anyway. I was planning on 200 mg test c anyway. Is this good.

weren't you looking for each seperte

 

[ChestRockwell]

i have 7 vials of teen. i was going to run anyway. I was planning on 200 mg test c anyway. Is this good.

Yes, I think a very reasonable testing plan would be as follows:

6-8 weeks of trenbolone at 200mg/week - followed by blood testing
6-8 weeks of testosterone at 200mg/week - followed by blood testing

Now, we must realize there are no wash out periods, and esters should preferably be similar. But, I also don't want perfection to be the enemy of good here.

 

[rutman]

@ChestRockwell

I might have some complete blood profile panels still on file from when I ran tren only cycles. I'll check and see on Monday when I go back to my office. From memory, I know that my HDL and LDL were extremely affected, among other things.

I was running fina tren at the time. 100mg eod.

I checked and I don't have bloodwork in my files that go back that far. Wish I could've contributed.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I checked and I don't have bloodwork in my files that go back that far. Wish I could've contributed.

Bummer, but no worries. Thank you for taking the time to look...

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

@TANGO.ECHO.KILO ran tren only for a while, I believe he went through hell after a few weeks in. Not sure if he ran bloods?

some ramblings are logged on here during that period...probably "TEK TALKS" thread maybe. No bloods but I was pinning like 100-140mg fina ED for about 6 weeks and Brutus told me my brain was going to melt....

 

[HuckingFuge]

I've run plenty of Fina Tren only cycles. I have a friend that was using low dose Tren for TRT and was loving it. Tren was the only thing that made my nuts shrink up to raisins. I have never gotten blood work, so I'm no help either. if you can handle the side effects Tren is King. best to run Tren during the colder months. IMHO

 

[ChestRockwell]

Tren was the only thing that made my nuts shrink up to raisins.

I would tend to speculate, in a trenbolone-only blast, this would very likely have to do with the significantly suppressed estradiol levels caused by the lack of aromatization present.

Animal models suggest one of the causes of testicular atrophy is related to damaged fluid reabsorption capabilities, which leads to fluid accumulation and testicular back-pressure. Estrogen is thought to be a major part of this fluid reabsorption process.

Hess RA. Estrogen in the adult male reproductive tract: a review. Reprod Biol Endocrinol. 2003 Jul 9;1:52. Review.

 

[OldCruiser]

You can transfer 10 amps at a time to a sealed sterile vial and then use whatever dose you want. Slin pins make accurate dosing easy if you're doing less than 1 ml per injection.

yea this is true.

You can also just fill multiple syringes and have them ready. When I want to pin 0.6 ml and have amps. I just open 3 amps and put 0.6 in 5 syringes and put the cap back over the needles. The math works out. I put them in a ziplock to stay clean. Diabetics often fill a bunch of syringes at once since they pin 3 times a day.

 

[OldCruiser]

Of course the reproducibility of such testing is dependent upon
KNOWING the product itself
is qualitatively and quantitatively consistent with what's on the label

Jim

So, in order to keep the source consistent, maybe we should just inject the fina pellets directly into our thigh with that cool gun. I'll go first and let you know if there's any pip...

 

[jJjburton]

You can also just fill multiple syringes and have them ready. When I want to pin 0.6 ml and have amps. I just open 3 amps and put 0.6 in 5 syringes and put the cap back over the needles. The math works out. I put them in a ziplock to stay clean. Diabetics often fill a bunch of syringes at once since they pin 3 times a day.

the rubber on the syringes doesnt get mest up and wear into the oil?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Just wanted to update to let folks I still don't have any firm commitments. If anyone would be willing to help, I would still very much appreciate it

 

[OldCruiser]

the rubber on the syringes doesnt get mest up and wear into the oil?

I haven't seen any sign of that. I doubt it's much different than the rubber on the top of the vials. I haven't seen the oil colored or anything.

 

[master.on]

I would tend to speculate, in a trenbolone-only blast, this would very likely have to do with the significantly suppressed estradiol levels caused by the lack of aromatization present.

Animal models suggest one of the causes of testicular atrophy is related to damaged fluid reabsorption capabilities, which leads to fluid accumulation and testicular back-pressure. Estrogen is thought to be a major part of this fluid reabsorption process.

Hess RA. Estrogen in the adult male reproductive tract: a review. Reprod Biol Endocrinol. 2003 Jul 9;1:52. Review.

I understand that you can't tell us much about it until after the article is ready and published.

Do you think that
1 Tren doesn't aromatize? and if it does it's converted to an estrogenic-shaped molecule that doesn't activate estrogen receptors?
2 Lack of estrogen makes Tren only cycles unbearable?
3 MENT (Trestolone) was testes as a suitable long term TRT replacement because both it aromatizes a lot, and the resulting estrogen properly activates both Estrogen Receptors (now some say there are 3 types of ERs?
4 Does Tren has Progestogenic activity?
5 If it does, it mainly works to antagonize estrogen?
Physiological Action of Progesterone in Target Tissues * | Endocrine Reviews | Oxford Academic
Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
6 Do you think an experiment to see if tiny dose micronized-Estradiol tabs or transdermal-estradiol alleviates Tren only side effects will clear this up?
http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v5/n10/full/nrendo.2009.176.html?foxtrotcallback=true
Just some food for thought

 

[ChestRockwell]

Great questions @master.on

tren doesn't aromatize? and if it does it's converted to an estrogenic-shaped molecule that doesn't activate estrogen receptors?

This is correct, as most animal trials support this hypothesis by demonstrating reduced estradiol levels as compared to control and/or testosterone treatment groups. Interestingly enough, trenbolone may actually have the ability to activate the estrogen receptor but this has not been continuously demonstrated.

2 Lack of estrogen makes Tren only cycles unbearable?

This is certainly a possibility. The research teams working hard to promote it as a potential HRT tout the lack of aromatization and 5alpha reduction as being positive things, especially in regards to prostate cancer risk. However, by suppressing aromatase and 5 alpha reduction, there are a lot of potential long-term risks associated with this which would have to be uncovered during long-term human trials.

 

[master.on]

Great questions @master.on



This is correct, as most animal trials support this hypothesis by demonstrating reduced estradiol levels as compared to control and/or testosterone treatment groups. Interestingly enough, trenbolone may actually have the ability to activate the estrogen receptor but this has not been continuously demonstrated.



This is certainly a possibility. The research teams working hard to promote it as a potential HRT tout the lack of aromatization and 5alpha reduction as being positive things, especially in regards to prostate cancer risk. However, by suppressing aromatase and 5 alpha reduction, there are a lot of potential long-term risks associated with this which would have to be uncovered during long-term human trials.

Just curious if it's Trenbolone itself activating Estrogen receptors, or if it's an Tren-estrogenic derivative from aromatization?

This looks similar to literature suggesting Boldenone DOES aromatize, but nobody seems to get nasty estrogenic sides from it.
So maybe them both (EQ and Tren) aromatize to very weak derivatives?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Just curious if it's Trenbolone itself activating Estrogen receptors, or if it's an Tren-estrogenic derivative from aromatization?

This looks similar to literature suggesting Boldenone DOES aromatize, but nobody seems to get nasty estrogenic sides from it.
So maybe them both (EQ and Tren) aromatize to very weak derivatives?

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this, no. There was a group who speculated that trenbolone, via androstendione, (derived from dehydroepiandrosterone) can be aromatized to estrone and, subsequently, converted to E2 by actions of 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in tissues, such as fat, expressing the required enzymes.

My personal stance currently is that this isn't a possibility because I've found no evidence that trenbolone can metabolize to androstendione.

As far as we know, trenbolone's primary metabolites are 17β-hydroxy- and 17-oxo-metabolites of trenbolone in rodents or 17α-hydroxy-metabolites of trenbolone in ruminants such as livestock. In humans, ingested trenbolone is primarily excreted intact as trenbolone, as the 17α epimer (epitrenbolone; 17α-TBOH) or as trendione (TBO).

 

[master.on]

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this, no. There was a group who speculated that trenbolone, via androstendione, (derived from dehydroepiandrosterone) can be aromatized to estrone and, subsequently, converted to E2 by actions of 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in tissues, such as fat, expressing the required enzymes.

My personal stance currently is that this isn't a possibility because I've found no evidence that trenbolone can metabolize to androstendione.

As far as we know, trenbolone's primary metabolites are 17β-hydroxy- and 17-oxo-metabolites of trenbolone in rodents or 17α-hydroxy-metabolites of trenbolone in ruminants such as livestock. In humans, ingested trenbolone is primarily excreted intact as trenbolone, as the 17α epimer (epitrenbolone; 17α-TBOH) or as trendione (TBO).

Yep
so I've heard. Tren doesn't aromatize.

Probably this is going to be the main scope of your article, so I understand you can't tell us much now
but, Why long, high dose, solo (no other steroids, no HCG) cycles of other steroids that don't seem to aromatize (like Primo, Mast) that sharply lower natural Test/Estradiol/LH/FSH don't feel as nasty as Tren does?
you're Estrogen deficient in those cycles too

 

[ChestRockwell]

Probably this is going to be the main scope of your article, so I understand you can't tell us much now

I don't mind sharing, as I can always elaborate further in the document.

Why long, high dose, solo (no other steroids, no hcg) cycles of other steroids that don't seem to aromatize (like Primo, Mast) that sharply lower natural Test/Estradiol/LH/FSH don't feel as nasty as Tren does?

I think this suggests that suppressing estrogen isn't the only mechanism at play here as it relates to trenbolone's ability to reduce quality of life. Now, as with most things in the hormone world, this will be quite individual in nature. For example, trenbolone tends to wreck me after a relatively short time during preps.

However, I've routinely thrived using it during growth phases on multiple occasions. Here is a hypothesis I've been really thinking more about lately. Could the effects being reported by trenbolone user's be secondary? Meaning that trenbolone tends to wreak havoc with sleep cycles and perhaps even circadian processes in general (I'm speculating out of my ass here mind you).

Could our quality of life suffer due to the lack of sleep over time, combined with sustained periods of energy intake deficit? In this way, those would be the primary drivers with trenbolone being the catalyst...

 

[master.on]

I don't mind sharing, as I can always elaborate further in the document.



I think this suggests that suppressing estrogen isn't the only mechanism at play here as it relates to trenbolone's ability to reduce quality of life. Now, as with most things in the hormone world, this will be quite individual in nature. For example, trenbolone tends to wreck me after a relatively short time during preps.

However, I've routinely thrived using it during growth phases on multiple occasions. Here is a hypothesis I've been really thinking more about lately. Could the effects being reported by trenbolone user's be secondary? Meaning that trenbolone tends to wreak havoc with sleep cycles and perhaps even circadian processes in general (I'm speculating out of my ass here mind you).

Could our quality of life suffer due to the lack of sleep over time, combined with sustained periods of energy intake deficit? In this way, those would be the primary drivers with trenbolone being the catalyst...

It would be interesting to see if HCG at high enough doses (1000 IU/week) which increases Test and E2 makes Tren-only sides (more) bearable.

IMO HCG while on-cycle makes anything more bearable. Even better than added Test does. Perhaps it has to do with HCG increasing Pregnenolone and other beneficial substances.

OTOH Tren nasty sides kick in too quick as to be solely caused by natural Test/Estro levels reduction.

 

[ChestRockwell]

It would be interesting to see if HCG at high enough doses (1000 IU/week) which increases Test and E2 makes Tren-only sides (more) bearable.

I think we need to be diligent about separating systemic estradiol and that which is derived via the aromatase process. The latter of which has specific functions that are exclusive to it...

So, even if we elevate systemic estradiol levels, we still likely run into problems if there is no aromatization occurring.