Low dose T3/T4 to increase daily energy

[Evom1]

I saw a video online of one of the hrt clinics talking about the use of a T3/T4 combo to help give more daily energy.

They were talking about with competitors who were not hypothyroid, just needing more energy throughout the day

I believe it was 11.25mcg t3/47.5mcg t4


Does anyone have any experience here or knowledge on this approach? Maybe @Type-IIx ?

Having more energy sounds great but my first two thoughts are 1. Could it hinder growth in the offseason and 2. Could it cause and negative side effects such as damaging thyroid function.

 

[6tren]

T3 and T4 hormones from the thyroid gland or synthetic hormones increase basal metabolic rate = more metabolism = more macromolecules get broken down = more energy products

I'd first recommend getting T3, T4 and TSH bloods pulled to see the baseline.

Hyperthyroidism is a side effect from too much thyroid hormone, big side effects are tachycardia and nervousness/anxiety others are over-heating, tremors, constipation, bulging eyes.

But honestly, caffeine sounds like a more healthier option than thyroid hormones. Power naps too.

 

[freakyjacked29]

Like said if thyroid is fine don’t do this route

ashwaganda and other supps can help you

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I’d never want to fuck with my thyroid for long periods of time if my lab work says it’s all good. Find other means.

TRT clinics are turning into drug dens prescribing test, deca, anti estrogens, anavar, t3/t4, growth, impamorelin, etc.

TRT clinic use should not be a standard for something being a reasonable idea.

 

[Evom1]

Okay cool sounds like all you guys have the same thought on it as I did. That's why I wanted to see if anyone had experience with it since it was the first I had seen of it

 

[IronMetal_2]

It really depends...

if you have a well functioning thyroid and normal feedback loop, I would not recommend you messing around with T3 or T4. There's nothing to gain.

If blood work however indicates hypothyroidism or even subclinical hypothyroidism and depending on the overall symptoms you might have, T3/T4 can help tremendously. Not just Energy, also overall mood, psychiatric symptoms...

Finding the right dosage can be a bit tricky (also the matter T4 vs T3/T4, how to split T3 etc.).

TL;DR: Go get bloodwork (free T3, free T4, TSH) to see if you could benefit from thyroid medication. If hypo, then yes T3/T4 will make a big difference.

 

[Rido]

Actually. I when I went on TRT first, it was an anti-aging clinic.

They prescribed me a grain(it's a dosing) of armour thyroid. Mix of t4/t3 to keep my t3 in the upper normal limit. But not to a supraphysiological level.

The doctor didn't make money off of prescribing that to me btw.

I still have a shitload of those pellets left.

 

[Type-IIx]

I saw a video online of one of the hrt clinics talking about the use of a T3/T4 combo to help give more daily energy.

They were talking about with competitors who were not hypothyroid, just needing more energy throughout the day

I believe it was 11.25mcg t3/47.5mcg t4


Does anyone have any experience here or knowledge on this approach? Maybe @Type-IIx ?

Having more energy sounds great but my first two thoughts are 1. Could it hinder growth in the offseason and 2. Could it cause and negative side effects such as damaging thyroid function.

A replacement Synthroid or Cytomel dose for daily energy makes sense during contest prep, because thyroid output and therefore sympathetic nervous system output is reduced. Replacement makes sense especially for enhanced competitors, since reduced fT3 is actually very likely a protein sparing adaptation to low energy availability (i.e., dieting), and AAS (even mere TRT) does substantially antagonize the protein catabolic effects of T3.

To your thoughts: 1. Exogenous thyroid hormones used in doses greater than replacement are absolutely catabolic (and preferentially catabolize hypertrophied muscle) and will hinder growth in the offseason (see Bond, P. (2021). Thyroid Hormone Effects on Energy Metabolism and Protein Turnover at a Glance. MesoRX (Article)), and 2. No, the HPT axis (hypothalamo-thyroidal axis) is resilient and essentially "bounces back" from exogenous thyroid hormonal use rapidly (quite unlike the HPG axis with respect to exogenous AAS).

 

[IronMetal_2]

A replacement Synthroid or Cytomel dose for daily energy makes sense during contest prep, because thyroid output and therefore sympathetic nervous system output is reduced. Replacement makes sense especially for enhanced competitors, since reduced fT3 is actually very likely a protein sparing adaptation to low energy availability (i.e., dieting), and AAS (even mere TRT) does substantially antagonize the protein catabolic effects of T3.

To your thoughts: 1. Exogenous thyroid hormones used in doses greater than replacement are absolutely catabolic (and preferentially catabolize hypertrophied muscle) and will hinder growth in the offseason (see Bond, P. (2021). Thyroid Hormone Effects on Energy Metabolism and Protein Turnover at a Glance. MesoRX (Article)), and 2. No, the HPT axis (hypothalamo-thyroidal axis) is resilient and essentially "bounces back" from exogenous thyroid hormonal use rapidly (quite unlike the HPG axis with respect to exogenous AAS).

What would you say is a better option when used during prep?
1. Only T3: 25mcg is often stated as a replacement. Single doses would yield fT3 levels significantly above reference range when peak is reached (like 250-300%), quickly diminishing. Would also crush fT4 into the ground. If only using T3, is twice-thrice daily needed? From the studies I looked into, 50mcg T3 single dose, suppresses TSH substantially longer than free T3 plasma levels would suggest.
2. T3/T4 mix "equivalent" to 25mcg T3 like 50mcg T4 + 12.5mcg T3.

 

[Evom1]

Actually. I when I went on TRT first, it was an anti-aging clinic.

They prescribed me a grain(it's a dosing) of armour thyroid. Mix of t4/t3 to keep my t3 in the upper normal limit. But not to a supraphysiological level.

The doctor didn't make money off of prescribing that to me btw.

I still have a shitload of those pellets left.

Yeah they had said 1.25 grain and when I looked that up, that's where those numbers came from.


@Type-IIx so from what you said, I gather that for an enhanced competitor, in the offseason pushing to grow, with good blood work as far as thyroid is concerned, it would not be wise for the energy effects?

 

[Type-IIx]

What would you say is a better option when used during prep?
1. Only T3: 25mcg is often stated as a replacement. Single doses would yield fT3 levels significantly above reference range when peak is reached (like 250-300%), quickly diminishing. Would also crush fT4 into the ground. If only using T3, is twice-thrice daily needed? From the studies I looked into, 50mcg T3 single dose, suppresses TSH substantially longer than free T3 plasma levels would suggest.
2. T3/T4 mix "equivalent" to 25mcg T3 like 50mcg T4 + 12.5mcg T3.

I can make an argument for T4 replacement solo based on its longer biological half-life, yada yada, or for split dosing T3 based on some evidence of rapid pharmacodynamic effects like reaching peak fT3 rapidly.

When you get into the weeds a bit with thyroid hormone pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics data that is oriented around the mean values, you'll see that there is widespread disagreement between studies that is likely rooted in a high degree of inter-individual variation in these PK/PD effects (see Goede SL, Latham KR, Leow MK, Jonklaas J. High Resolution Free Triiodothyronine-Thyrotropin (FT3-TSH) Responses to a Single Oral Dose of Liothyronine in Humans: Evidence of Distinct Inter-Individual Differences Unraveled Using an Electrical Network Model. J Biol Syst. 2017 Mar;25(1):119-143. doi: 10.1142/S0218339017500073.)

In such cases, I prefer to apply Occam's razor. We are seeking mere replacement in a manner that works well practically. Then, I believe that simply following the clinical guidelines for replacement or treatment of hypothyroidism that are used across the world attendant to whichever drug that you have available (Cytomel, Synthroid) makes the most sense.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yeah they had said 1.25 grain and when I looked that up, that's where those numbers came from.


@Type-IIx so from what you said, I gather that for an enhanced competitor, in the offseason pushing to grow, with good blood work as far as thyroid is concerned, it would not be wise for the energy effects?

I generally view thyroid hormone use unfavorably for bodybuilders because the principal effect on body composition is preferential muscle loss. There are other diet drugs that have either neutral (EC/ECA stack) or positive (clen) effects on muscle protein that boost sympathetic drive ("daily energy").

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I generally view thyroid hormone use unfavorably for bodybuilders because the principal effect on body composition is preferential muscle loss. There are other diet drugs that have either neutral (EC/ECA stack) or positive (clen) effects on muscle protein that boost sympathetic drive ("daily energy").

This. Last ditch, end of prep, only if needed. I’ve never seen larger doses present favorably on show day. Guys always look stringy and overdieted.