low dose tren ace experiment

[hellerhiwater]

Looking forward to dropping the tren but also greedy (or drug addled) and figuring why not just finish this bottle and see- I spent all this time jabbing to get titrated up and saturated. Have I answered all my questions about how I tolerate the compound? Have I discovered if there are tangible benefits?

Took a fresh 3ml barrel and drew up what’s left in my 2000mg bottle of tren ace to measure it- 10ml @ 200mg/ml. Just over 3ml left. So if I go to 60mg/day I have 10 days left to see if anything else good or bad happens- that’s 420mg/week which is way way way (way) over any kind of dose I thought I might tolerate.

A good while at 50mg/day has settled into less sides so far rather than building into more, and as chemical saturation has shifted to physical effects and adaptation I have felt nothing but mellow and content. The whole “daily changes in the mirror” thing has kinda started to happen though without any prodigious strength gains. Probably because although I raised calories a touch and started frontloading carbs before training I’m still in a defecit.

So it’s a sprint to the finish line. No idea if unseen demons are nipping at my heels or if I won (lost?!) the tren tolerance lottery?

In any case, this experiment had been super stupid and ill advised, but also super fun and intetesting. It’s certainly looking like if I wanted to run 350A/week again in the future, or play with milder tren E doses in a stack I could be good to go, other than anecdotal evidence that some folks have sides come in unexpectedly after years of successful abuse.

do you have any plans to get bloodwork done?

 

[Mfras]

do you have any plans to get bloodwork done?

Absolutely. I’m not sure how long I should wait- maybe a full panel 2 weeks after discontinuing? Longer? I want to let the compound fully leave first, not sure when the most informative panel would need to be taken.

I also need to get a z-score to assess my gh abuse at 6.6iu/day- another side effect free titration that went up above ‘probably fine’ and into ‘you should really check on that’. It’s been a few months on that one. Not super worried because things will probably be spicier IGF wise when a little more food goes back in.

I am also interested in getting a dexa scan but know that tren introduces intracellular water that will read as false positive for lean mass. For $100 it might be an interesting metric, even if it’s not super useful in terms of a truthful report card there will be a lot of information there. A more accurate ‘report card’ dexa would probably be more like 6 weeks out when the water and inflammation has cleared and my cruise & training has retained & solidified any gains and losses.

Edit: thinking 4-6 weeks after disco. Sooner than that will just be predictably a shitshow and I’m interested in damage that’s not transient.

 

[Thecarrier]

Don't do tren you old fat retard.

Just kidding.

Its been my observation, based upon reading here and other sources, that the younger you are, possibly the more likely you are to have bigger negative side effects on tren. But that could be total junk.

I did a tren cycle (37 year old) and had virtually no negative side effects at ranges from 150 to 300 per week.

Never tried more than that.

I bet you're gonna be fine, as long ad you keep an eye on it. You seem like an even keeled guy. Good you told your wife, I did the same.

Be interesting to pump those numbers up a bit, see if you get more oomph without the sides.

Lol

 

[Mfras]

Welp I called it- today was my last day. Don’t think anything else good or bad was gonna happen and anxious to finish my cut & stop fucking around. Back with bloods in 4- 6 weeks or so!

 

[Stinkyq]

Welp I called it- today was my last day. Don’t think anything else good or bad was gonna happen and anxious to finish my cut & stop fucking around. Back with bloods in 4- 6 weeks or so!

I want to know about your hdl markers. That's what really scares me. Ive got some Pitavastatin and ezimibe on the way(cant find any vascepa). 42yrs old 225lbs. Going to keep TA under 100mg a week. In my 20s I did much more, but death scares the hell out of me now. This was/ is a great read. Im thankful for it! Keep us in the loop ole brave one.

 

[Mfras]

I want to know about your hdl markers. That's what really scares me. Ive got some Pitavastatin and ezimibe on the way(cant find any vascepa). 42yrs old 225lbs. Going to keep TA under 100mg a week. In my 20s I did much more, but death scares the hell out of me now. This was/ is a great read. Im thankful for it! Keep us in the loop ole brave one.

Hdl was one point out of range at 39 before the tren came in, and LDL high but in range at 94, but that’s with my high cruise cutting stack well established which includes a generously measured 150mg/week of mast. Don’t know if the 80 deca is helping either.

Of course I have no idea if I nuked my lipids in 6 weeks but I’m glad my log is helpful and I’ll post blood results for sure.

 

[Mfras]

Got a dexa scan. Last one was near halloween, so all progress wasn’t the tren there’s also a month of my mild recomp stack in there. But thru Nov & Dec I went down 3% body fat down to 17% and gained 3lbs fat free mass, up to 213.

Total body weight still 260 which is a little crazy to see good recomp results since I was 253 at the end of Nov.

 

[adrenalytic]

Absolutely. I’m not sure how long I should wait- maybe a full panel 2 weeks after discontinuing? Longer? I want to let the compound fully leave first, not sure when the most informative panel would need to be taken.

No no no, you want blood work while you're at peak serum levels so you can see the damage done. You want to check again after being off a while to verify your markers returned to normal, certainly, but having those peak values will tell you how well (or badly) you handled the drug.

 

[Mfras]

No no no, you want blood work while you're at peak serum levels so you can see the damage done. You want to check again after being off a while to verify your markers returned to normal, certainly, but having those peak values will tell you how well (or badly) you handled the drug.

I do understand what you’re saying but it’s not a 20 week deca cycle and I can’t see being on trenA for more than 6-8 weeks (only did like 6) or trenE for 8-10 max, and personally would tend to land on the shorter side of those cycles when diminishing returns and fatigue/inflammation begin to compete with gains. So mid cycle bloods in the absence of problems to fix seem superfluous.

I’d think that on cycle the bloodwork would just be fucked- a chaotic mess? If markers stayed out of range a month later wouldn’t that be more valuable information for future use rather than knowing tren is poison? Which we definitely already know!

If hematocrit was above 54 or ast/alt was bananas or lipids were single & triple digits I would be alarmed but I’m not expecting anything that crazy, especially considering that the first couple weeks were ramping up from a baby dose and the meat of the cycle was only around 3-400mg/week for like 4 weeks.

Not only was my exposure limited, but a big part of what I learned was that if I crack a bottle of tren again it won’t be at significantly greater exposure.

Also this run was in the interest of experience not gains. The biggest thing I learned was that tren for me was kind of boring, slightly painful and annoying pinning Ace, and most useful for being show ready immediately after (or during) a harsh peeling cut. These are not really situations that line up well with my physique goals. It was fun though!

 

[Mfras]

Another note- sleep was never terrible on cycle but seems to be slightly better already. But last night- after the second day of no pin- was by far the sweatiest I’ve been. Woke up to pee around 1:00 which is normal because I drink 1/2-3/4 gallon before bed. Armpits still wet today like summer which has been normal for a few weeks but hasn’t subsided yet.

Lifting was normal yesterday- usually take 2 rest days/week but didn’t rest last week I think I’m gonna take today off and maybe tomorrow but probably not- forearm side of the elbows getting spicy is usually my warning sign to chill out on hammer curls and grip squeezer training. Tomorrow’s leg day though.

 

[Mfras]

Scale dropped from 261 down to 254.4 today. The glycogen and inflammation water from the tren is finally leaving.

 

[bananafeet]

Deca doesn't effect lipids usually. DHTs and tren does

 

[Mfras]

Deca doesn't effect lipids usually. DHTs and tren does

Yup I’m on 150mg mast/week.

 

[Ladder392]

What an interesting read! I am doing something similar but at lower dose. Took over my TRT management because doc wanted me at 350 total T and I still felt like shit at that level. Previously at a now defunct clinic that kept me at 800 and I felt great. After much experimentation, I'm on 100/wk test and 60mg EQ. The EQ keeps my E2 near perfect at that ratio and very dry. Added 35mg/wk tren ace and reta 1mg/wk for 6 weeks. Also 2iu hgh for the past 6 months. Moving reta up to 2mg this week. It's been slow and steady, but also recomp magic. Went from 20% bf to 10% and gained 5lbs of muscle over 6 months based on dexa scan. No sides whatsoever and bloodwork good. Probably not gonna push any further at 54 years old, but I'm happy at 6'1" 220lbs and 10%.

 

[Mfras]

What an interesting read! I am doing something similar but at lower dose. Took over my TRT management because doc wanted me at 350 total T and I still felt like shit at that level. Previously at a now defunct clinic that kept me at 800 and I felt great. After much experimentation, I'm on 100/wk test and 60mg EQ. The EQ keeps my E2 near perfect at that ratio and very dry. Added 35mg/wk tren ace and reta 1mg/wk for 6 weeks. Also 2iu hgh for the past 6 months. Moving reta up to 2mg this week. It's been slow and steady, but also recomp magic. Went from 20% bf to 10% and gained 5lbs of muscle over 6 months based on dexa scan. No sides whatsoever and bloodwork good. Probably not gonna push any further at 54 years old, but I'm happy at 6'1" 220lbs and 10%.

Thanks and glad you enjoyed it so far. The takeaway is always that everyone is so different in how they react to compounds.

One thing to watch, which could be fact or just my opinion is that the magic window for tren seems to close some time after 6 weeks. What I mean is that while tren is a harsh compound it still shares some universal truths about AAS and how they’re used, at least my philosophy of use, which I think applies especially well to tren.

My opinion is that all cycles are most effective when you are healthy, rested, fresh, and not accustomed to them in your system. You’ll go through a soaking phase first where the cycle builds up and your body starts operating in the elevated environment. Then you’ll start to ‘feel it’ if the dose is high enough, and physical changes will start happening, especially if you take advantage of increased energy, power, and the big one is recoverable stimulus. This phase is where the magic happens- weights get lighter, hopefully tissue is added, your body looks and feels different, better.

Then the cycle begins to stagnate. Gains flatten, inflammation and stress accumulate, and especially with cosmetic compounds like tren the look is maxed. You aren’t going to keep adding significant gains, sides and fatigue sets in, and the elevated look and performance start to be the new normal.

In my opinion (flame away!) this is a trap that people fall into. The look will stay as long as you keep or escalate the dose. Some more performance and enthusiasm can be eeked out with end of cycle orals like dbol or anadrol, but you also start to risk tendon health and injury as cns and pain guardrails are moved by the drugs and contractile tissue growth outpaces tendons and joints. Bloodwork slowly or quickly continues to decline, or looks ok but we know this shit ain’t good for you- limited exposure to maximum effect is always better.

So staying on past the point of productivity you just moved the baseline of performance, with much smaller gains than going back to cruise and blasting again when you’re fresh. And especially with tren in a cut what the drug does is allows muscle building and recovery while in a defecit, plus adds granite hardness and an awesome look by adding glycogen & water while promoting fat loss. I got heavier and looked leaner.

I’m suspicious of the tren cruise idea. The sides for me including body weight gain were not a lot different from 20mg/day to 55mg/day and the effects were definitely more noticable on the higher but still very tolerable doses.

Because the effect was so cosmetic and fat loss was not astronomically more than I can achieve with a controlled diet (that is less uncomfortable than being sweaty having heartburn and interrupted sleep even though these were mild at my doses), and because in a cut that doesn’t lead to a show or a photo shoot tren doesn’t align with my goals, the compound was not really a win for me. It was fun, it had minimal sides that I managed well, I looked better & better, and had great aggression in the gym and good recovery, but the win was gaining understanding of the compound, not that it did anything amazing for me.

Now that I’m off and the water weight is gone I’m finally seeing the results of the fat loss that would have happened without tren- on the scale and in my physique. The scale tells the truth again, and I’m not feeling softer or wishing I had god focus in the gym- I always have good training and enjoy aggression. (Ok the tren feeling is awesome that part is true!)

The interesting part from your post is 10% fat. I’m about 16% on the dexa and I’d imagine that at or below 10% tren would bring a dramatic transformation, especially run a little higher like 2-300mg/week minimum. It could probably also be successfully leveraged at low bf to help cut and harden when there is not much left to cut and you’re already lean and looking for maximum vascularity and striation.

I’m being a little long winded here but I’m super interested in hearing about your opinion and experience, especially because my takeaway was that tren was fun but probably not very useful unless already almost stage lean.

 

[Ladder392]

Thanks for the reply. I'll explain a little more about my philosophy, as it diverges slightly from yours. I'm in no way suggesting I'm right, simply that I chose a slightly different experiment. I believe very much in lowest effective dose, which may or may not be evident from my "blast" being 195mg/wk. Certainly on the low side by most standards. Where we differ is I look at total overall dosage instead of total overall time. I plan to run tren 16 weeks, which is obviously a very long time. However, at 35mg/wk, that is a total of 560mg all in. I believe total dose is at least as important as length of time on a compound. My reasoning for doing this is to achieve a small amount of nutrient partitioning and if the anecdotal suggestion that tren is 3x test in function, I'm theoretically on a total effective dose of 265mg/wk which is decent " blast" territory. After that, I will go back to 100 test and 60 EQ only as trt. I belive I have made as good of gains as possible on such a low dose, and I'm not willing to take the health risks of anything higher. So far, zero sides and feel great. Modest strength gains but nothing extraordinary. I also tried deca & test, at just under 200mg/wk total. Felt stronger in the gym, but held a lot of water and had to take nolvadex to keep estrogen under control, which is why I switched to EQ. I first ran test/EQ at 1:1 and crashed my E2 and let me tell you, low estrogen is way worse than high for me. I felt awful! I also went from training 6 days a week, each body part 3x per week to 4 times a week, each body part 2x per week. My old ass, beat up body doesn't recover like it once did. I've had my share of orthopedic surgery as well, all as a result of being young and stupid. I feel like I have everything pretty dialed in now. My protein is consistently 200-220 grams per day, but my total calories running closer to 2400, all super clean. Any other questions/thoughts, I'm happy to share with another old guy on a similar journey. BTW, in 2019 I weighed 263, was fat and drinking way to much. Finally realized I was killing myself.

 

[Mfras]

Thanks for the reply. I'll explain a little more about my philosophy, as it diverges slightly from yours. I'm in no way suggesting I'm right, simply that I chose a slightly different experiment. I believe very much in lowest effective dose, which may or may not be evident from my "blast" being 195mg/wk. Certainly on the low side by most standards. Where we differ is I look at total overall dosage instead of total overall time. I plan to run tren 16 weeks, which is obviously a very long time. However, at 35mg/wk, that is a total of 560mg all in. I believe total dose is at least as important as length of time on a compound. My reasoning for doing this is to achieve a small amount of nutrient partitioning and if the anecdotal suggestion that tren is 3x test in function, I'm theoretically on a total effective dose of 265mg/wk which is decent " blast" territory. After that, I will go back to 100 test and 60 EQ only as trt. I belive I have made as good of gains as possible on such a low dose, and I'm not willing to take the health risks of anything higher. So far, zero sides and feel great. Modest strength gains but nothing extraordinary. I also tried deca & test, at just under 200mg/wk total. Felt stronger in the gym, but held a lot of water and had to take nolvadex to keep estrogen under control, which is why I switched to EQ. I first ran test/EQ at 1:1 and crashed my E2 and let me tell you, low estrogen is way worse than high for me. I felt awful! I also went from training 6 days a week, each body part 3x per week to 4 times a week, each body part 2x per week. My old ass, beat up body doesn't recover like it once did. I've had my share of orthopedic surgery as well, all as a result of being young and stupid. I feel like I have everything pretty dialed in now. My protein is consistently 200-220 grams per day, but my total calories running closer to 2400, all super clean. Any other questions/thoughts, I'm happy to share with another old guy on a similar journey. BTW, in 2019 I weighed 263, was fat and drinking way to much. Finally realized I was killing myself.

As a support compound I understand the theory- I use 80 deca a week for joint support to help keep workouts productive and it totally works. I found tren A pippy and uncomfortable to pin daily, and the sides while minimal through higher doses were present at 5mg/day.

Hope it works out for ya!

 

[adrenalytic]

Imma just pop in to say tren is fucking magical. Current cutting stack:

300 Test E weekly
80mg Tren E weekly (just bumped to 100mg this week so not saturated yet)
10mcg clen daily
4mg reta weekly
1mg MOTS-C pre-cardio and pre-workout (cardio is daily, workout 5x week)
BPC-157 250mcg AM and PM for recovery

Eating 3200-3500 kcals daily

Fat is just flying off me but the scale is maintaining at 210-213 and I'm even adding weight to the bar. Intensity hasn't budged.

I think I like it too much. Gotta pull bloods in a few weeks and see the damage before I make a fully formed opinion. BP was creeping up but I just bumped my telmisartan to 40 mg and good to go. No other sides to speak of, mental or otherwise.

So far, I'm in love. (ok, maybe that was a little mental)

 

[Ladder392]

Thanks for the reply. I'll explain a little more about my philosophy, as it diverges slightly from yours. I'm in no way suggesting I'm right, simply that I chose a slightly different experiment. I believe very much in lowest effective dose, which may or may not be evident from my "blast" being 195mg/wk. Certainly on the low side by most standards. Where we differ is I look at total overall dosage instead of total overall time. I plan to run tren 16 weeks, which is obviously a very long time. However, at 35mg/wk, that is a total of 560mg all in. I believe total dose is at least as important as length of time on a compound. My reasoning for doing this is to achieve a small amount of nutrient partitioning and if the anecdotal suggestion that tren is 3x test in function, I'm theoretically on a total effective dose of 265mg/wk which is decent " blast" territory. After that, I will go back to 100 test and 60 EQ only as trt. I belive I have made as good of gains as possible on such a low dose, and I'm not willing to take the health risks of anything higher. So far, zero sides and feel great. Modest strength gains but nothing extraordinary. I also tried deca & test, at just under 200mg/wk total. Felt stronger in the gym, but held a lot of water and had to take nolvadex to keep estrogen under control, which is why I switched to EQ. I first ran test/EQ at 1:1 and crashed my E2 and let me tell you, low estrogen is way worse than high for me. I felt awful! I also went from training 6 days a week, each body part 3x per week to 4 times a week, each body part 2x per week. My old ass, beat up body doesn't recover like it once did. I've had my share of orthopedic surgery as well, all as a result of being young and stupid. I feel like I have everything pretty dialed in now. My protein is consistently 200-220 grams per day, but my total calories running closer to 2400, all super clean. Any other questions/thoughts, I'm happy to share with another old guy on a similar journey. BTW, in 2019 I weighed 263, was fat and drinking way to much. Finally realized I was killing myself

As a support compound I understand the theory- I use 80 deca a week for joint support to help keep workouts productive and it totally works. I found tren A pippy and uncomfortable to pin daily, and the sides while minimal through higher doses were present at 5mg/day.

Hope it works out for ya!

I mix about a month's worth of all 3 in appropriate ratio and pin EOD. Zero PIP. I find doing the math up front makes it easier long term. I do something similar with peptides, mix each so each dose is 20 units. I don't mix peptides together as some sources advise against. BPC 157 daily, MOT-C daily, TB 500 and reta weekly, DSIP as needed.

 

[Mfras]

Imma just pop in to say tren is fucking magical. Current cutting stack:

300 Test E weekly
80mg Tren E weekly (just bumped to 100mg this week so not saturated yet)
10mcg clen daily
4mg reta weekly
1mg MOTS-C pre-cardio and pre-workout (cardio is daily, workout 5x week)
BPC-157 250mcg AM and PM for recovery

Eating 3200-3500 kcals daily

Fat is just flying off me but the scale is maintaining at 210-213 and I'm even adding weight to the bar. Intensity hasn't budged.

I think I like it too much. Gotta pull bloods in a few weeks and see the damage before I make a fully formed opinion. BP was creeping up but I just bumped my telmisartan to 40 mg and good to go. No other sides to speak of, mental or otherwise.

So far, I'm in love. (ok, maybe that was a little mental)

Nice. You’re already pretty lean? So it’s mostly a cut to get a serious look? The meat of the stack is just a high cruise test dose with a mild tren cycle- how long do you plan to run it and how far thru are ya?