MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Maybe I am confused but Humatrope doesn't come in a 3.72mg/ml, it comes in 6, 12, or 24mg cartridges. Most of what I have seen on the are the 24mg(72iu) carts. Secondly, if you plug in the numbers from the Genotropin into the same calculation used for the grey tops; the concentration comes out to 2.4mg/ml. Jim already stated that it was a 5.3 mg cartridge used for that sample. So the pharm grade then is severely underdosed is it not? And then this Genotropin is now being used as the new standard? Why use an underdosed sample as a standard? Why even use a new standard? What was wrong with the old standard?

Muscles, when I told you the other day that you needed to go find a chemist to explain this to you, I wasn't joking. You're not going to figure this out on your own. You're flailing around in all directions in this thread because you don't know where to turn next. It's like watching someone trying to figure out multi variable calculus before they've ever taken an algebra class. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just a fact.

 

[jon johnson]

Has any of the million plus Human grade hgh 16iu and/or 36 iu pens (Pfizer geno's, humatrope, etc) been tested??? It's funny cause all if the sudden everyone went from nothing to an unlimited supply if this crap. I remember when naps only sold hyge's (real back then 10+ years ago,b) even before genxxlgear got busted), and that was rarely in stock!

Now everyone and their mom is selling g this counterfeit ass hgh...or did the pharmaceutical companies list millions of stock that went missing...like wtf?!? $

 

[Rick Kane]

Has any of the million plus Human grade hgh 16iu and/or 36 iu pens (Pfizer geno's, humatrope, etc) been tested??? It's funny cause all if the sudden everyone went from nothing to an unlimited supply if this crap. I remember when naps only sold hyge's (real back then 10+ years ago,b) even before genxxlgear got busted), and that was rarely in stock!

Now everyone and their mom is selling g this counterfeit ass hgh...or did the pharmaceutical companies list millions of stock that went missing...like wtf?!? $

No doubt there are tons of fakes floating around but I also think the manufacturers are using countries with less stringent laws as a pipeline move product. What I also find interesting is that sales figures from HGH sales are not being listed anymore on company reports. Last one I saw was from 2012 and Humatrope had $400mil in sales.
Companies report cialis, humalin, strattera, viagara and other meds but not HGH now. I've looked at their SEC filings and can't find the numbers. IDK, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

 

[Rick Kane]

These numbers are almost 3 years old. Imagine where they are now. Does anyone really believe this figures are all from legit pharmacy/Doc/Clinics?

 

[Colt44]

Has any of the million plus Human grade hgh 16iu and/or 36 iu pens (Pfizer geno's, humatrope, etc) been tested???

Yep! I had a Phizer Geno 16iu pen tested. It was submitted with the other samples in this latest round. Don't see the report posted anywhere though. Good thing those pens are cheap. Wouldn't want to waste one of them

 

[Rick Kane]

Yep! I had a Phizer Geno 16iu pen tested. It was submitted with the other samples in this latest round. Don't see the report posted anywhere though. Good thing those pens are cheap. Wouldn't want to waste one of them

I could be mistaken but didn't Jim say your Genos were underdosed by half or something to that extent?

 

[muscle96ss]

I've been using rhGH since Dr Lei Jin was shipping factory direct

So then you can attest to the fact that real GH is not super expensive as CBS, Jim, and others are leading us to believe?

 

[muscle96ss]

My apologies for not reading the entire thread (100+ pages)

I don't see any answers.....just numbers that are being "plugged into" potency, purity, strong, overdosed, GTG

Injecting a substance that is questionable into a living, breathing, everchanging living organism (the buyer) and then extracting the blood, testing the (blood) serum......then using those results to determine how "GTG" the substance that was injected is

Vs

Injecting the questionable substance into an analysis/testing "machine" that is calibrated specifically for that substance.........

LabCorp blood test are merely "markers"

They are not designed to distinguish the quality of meds being ingested/injected

Here is what I find ironic, you have dismissed the thread I referred you to as broscience and not really worth your time. Yet you have then posted data from your own experimentation and talking about your conclusions from that. The tests that you have posted and the questions you have about the analysis is EXACTLY what that whole thread is for and is EXACTLY what is taking place in that thread. In other words, people are doing experiments such as what you did and then we are all discussing it so that we can all learn. Its not only testing the GH to find out what we believe to be legit; but its also about learning as much as we can because there isn't a whole lot of clinical science on GH and bodybuilding.

 

[muscle96ss]

Muscles, when I told you the other day that you needed to go find a chemist to explain this to you, I wasn't joking. You're not going to figure this out on your own. You're flailing around in all directions in this thread because you don't know where to turn next. It's like watching someone trying to figure out multi variable calculus before they've ever taken an algebra class. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just a fact.

Nice attempt to deflect again CBS, but I took calculus in high school before heading to college initially for electrical engineering, before I changed my mind down the road.

Now back to the Genotropin issue. For shits and giggles; let pretend that Genotropin was actually the standard in this case and lets look at the

{5.3 mg/ml / 42,397,387} x 25,231,986 = 3.15 mg/ml

WOW!! Look at that, looks like 9.45iu's to me!!!

But supposedly this Genotropin is underdosed when Humatrope is used as a standard. Perhaps the concentration of the standard is off and the GH's are not underdosed.

So, I am still having trouble understanding why Jim would use an underdosed sample as the NEW standard for future tests. If the Genotropin is underdosed then the odds are it is not real Genotropin. In other words, the odds that somebody went into the sealed cartride and removed half the GH before resealing it is not good. Either the entire cartridge apparatus is fake or they would remove all the GH and replace it with UG GH. But you would be able to tell if half of it was removed and left that way; so that theory doesn't make sense. So why would you then trust this GH as your new standard?

So CBS, no more deflections. Lets deal with the issue at hand. We need more information on this Humatrope standard, I think its obvious to anyone who is not biased and understands common sense!!

 

[biggerben69]

So then you can attest to the fact that real GH is not super expensive as CBS, Jim, and others are leading us to believe?

Sorry I'm late to the dance. I'll be honest, I have a hard time following the lab part of the debate going on in this thread. I do know something about black market pricing of pharm GH as I've been setting my own since 2005.
If that's not what the post i quoted above is referring to, then I'll say goodnight and slide back into the shadows.

 

[muscle96ss]

Sorry I'm late to the dance. I'll be honest, I have a hard time following the lab part of the debate going on in this thread. I do know something about black market pricing of pharm GH as I've been setting my own since 2005.
If that's not what the post i quoted above is referring to, then I'll say goodnight and slide back into the shadows.

Ben, our debate is on the cost to manufacture the GH, not the actual street value or wholesale price of the GH. In other words, how much does it actually cost Serono to manufacture the kits that you use(or used as I know you have mentioned them before). If you have any info, please share.

 

[muscle96ss]

View attachment 27270

I have no reason to lie my friend.

Again, try and venture outside the BBing Forums and check out some clinical studies

There's some very informative information on True Generic GH and how precise the protein must be to be approved for medical use

Trust me, I've done all those GH Testing Protocols before

Sometimes you have to step outside the tunnel and question what those test are really showing.......or better yet.....what are they "promoting"

I was pondering your data last night before bed and something doesn't make sense. Let me explain. In my list of data of serum and IGF-1 tests, I also have the dates. On several occasions I have done a serum test on the same blood draw as IGF-1. In other I had been taking Humatrope at a dosage of 4iu per night for 3-4 weeks when on 7/21/14 I did both a serum GH and IGF-1 test on the Humatrope. My serum score was 21.6 and my IGF-1 score was 290. Now based on your theory and your data that 1 injection raised your IGF-1 level like 180; mine should have been much higher than that. Let me elaborate. My baseline on my protocol of 4iu has already been established and fairly consistent to be in the mid to upper 300's. So then you add the 10iu that you suggest cause an immediate spike in IGF-1 levels of significance, then my score should have been much much higher. This contradiction to your data appears on each occasion that I did a serum GH along with a IGF-1 test. The only difference is that you did yours subq and I did mine IM. So, I am definitely not calling you a liar as I have no reason to doubt you, but our bro-science experiments contradict each other.

 

[muscle96ss]

Here is my list, it is not up to date and does not include my tests from the past year; so I need to update it but figured I would post it anyway:

Serum Scores
------------------------------
12/08/12 Thanktropin 19.1
12/13/2012 Rips 35.0
12/17/2012 Novotropin 21.0
1/14/2013 Elitropin 23.7
1/21/2013 Thanktropin 21.1
5/21/2013 Thanktropin 23.7
2/02/2014 Serostim 20.3
3/21/2014 Thanktropin 14.9
4/11/2014 Scitropin 1.0
5/29/2014 TSM blue tops 30.4
6/12/2014 TSM blue tops 27.9
6/16/2014 Genotropin 28.4
7/04/2014 Grey tops 27.6
7/21/2014 Humatrope 21.6
8/03/2014 Somastim serum 26.8
9/08/2014 TSM blue tops 27.5

IGF-1 Scores
-------------------------------------
9/7/11 348 Thanktropin
6/13/12 460 Thanktropin
11/19/13 421 Rips
12/12/13 394 Rips
2/24/14 273 Serostim
3/21/2014 238 Thanktropin
4/11/2014 320 Thanktropin
6/12/2014 400 Genotropin
7/21/2014 290 Humatrope
9/08/2014 380 TSM Blue tops

All IGF-1 scores are on 4iu per day. I used to break my shots up and do some in morning and some in the evening; but can't remember when I switched to all in the evening other than I believe its been at least a couple of years.

You may notice some of the serum tests and IGF-1 tests were done on the same date. A couple of times I did a serum test for new GH while doing an IGF-1 test for the GH I had currently been using for at least several weeks. So that is why the dates are the same for some serum while the GH's for the IGF-1 are different(hope that make sense).

Also, I do have a history of IGF-1 tests for many many years and quite a bit on Serostim; but I never wrote down what GH or how much I was using at the time when I did them back then. So I would have to check my log books to organize that info and I have no idea where they even are. Usually I was around 400 with both generics and the Sero's; but my memory is getting bad.

 

[ProfessorX]

So then you can attest to the fact that real GH is not super expensive as CBS, Jim, and others are leading us to believe?

HGH From HRT Clinic - $18 - $20 iu
SEROS - $4.80 iu
ANSOMONE - $3.50 iu
GENLEI - $2.75 - $4.68 iu

PRICES FLUCTUATE

 

[ProfessorX]

Here is what I find ironic, you have dismissed the thread I referred you to as broscience and not really worth your time. Yet you have then posted data from your own experimentation and talking about your conclusions from that. The tests that you have posted and the questions you have about the analysis is EXACTLY what that whole thread is for and is EXACTLY what is taking place in that thread. In other words, people are doing experiments such as what you did and then we are all discussing it so that we can all learn. Its not only testing the GH to find out what we believe to be legit; but its also about learning as much as we can because there isn't a whole lot of clinical science on GH and bodybuilding.

And you're right...I just glanced over it...I'm sure there's good info.
I was just judging it by:

Sources using GH Serums to determining Price

Sources using GH Serums as "advertisement"


Sources selling the buyer on doing GH Serums when IGF1's for his products were diminishing after prolonged use

Does this Source know he is selling an "impure product"?
There's more than Itchy, Red Welts when it comes to Therapeutic Protein Immunogenicity

 

[ProfessorX]

I was pondering your data last night before bed and something doesn't make sense. Let me explain. In my list of data of serum and IGF-1 tests, I also have the dates. On several occasions I have done a serum test on the same blood draw as IGF-1. In other I had been taking Humatrope at a dosage of 4iu per night for 3-4 weeks when on 7/21/14 I did both a serum GH and IGF-1 test on the Humatrope. My serum score was 21.6 and my IGF-1 score was 290. Now based on your theory and your data that 1 injection raised your IGF-1 level like 180; mine should have been much higher than that. Let me elaborate. My baseline on my protocol of 4iu has already been established and fairly consistent to be in the mid to upper 300's. So then you add the 10iu that you suggest cause an immediate spike in IGF-1 levels of significance, then my score should have been much much higher. This contradiction to your data appears on each occasion that I did a serum GH along with a IGF-1 test. The only difference is that you did yours subq and I did mine IM. So, I am definitely not calling you a liar as I have no reason to doubt you, but our bro-science experiments contradict each other.

Keep in mind the blood work I did is very loosely based on a controlled clinical study (Bioequivalence of a known GH Product(s)

The Subjects tested were given an I.V. Of Octreotide to surpress Endogenous GH secretion

Also, IGF1 and IGFBP3 Serum results were based on an average of 30+ subjects

Each subject's serum results were not the same

The increase in IGF1 from my resting/baseline was more pronounced until "saturation"

Once IGF1 is increased the elevation was not as pronounced (25-50ng/mL) with a single SubQ injection

But again, these results were my results. Everyone will be different. This is why the data was used in 30+ subjects

This is also why you will see GH Serum levels fluctuate. I do see members on PM stating this. "My Serums weren't what I thought they would be", etc

I think the "better" GH Serums are posted more often since there is an incentive with Sources using this "High Scores" as Advertisement.

 

[muscle96ss]

Yep! I had a Phizer Geno 16iu pen tested. It was submitted with the other samples in this latest round. Don't see the report posted anywhere though. Good thing those pens are cheap. Wouldn't want to waste one of them

Colt - Real Genotropin has a distinctive smell to it. When you inject if you pick up that smell you know you are good to go. I know its not the most scientific method but it works for for me.

 

[Colt44]

I could be mistaken but didn't Jim say your Genos were underdosed by half or something to that extent?

Is that how we are doing it now? Word of mouth with no data posted?
That's unacceptable here at Meso any other time. Maybe there are exceptions I am unaware of.

 

[Colt44]

Colt - Real Genotropin has a distinctive smell to it. When you inject if you pick up that smell you know you are good to go. I know its not the most scientific method but it works for for me.

Well they do have a disctictive smell. That all too familiar hospital like aroma. I mean that's probably the easiest part to replicate I'd imagine.

 

[alphastrength50]

Here is my list, it is not up to date and does not include my tests from the past year; so I need to update it but figured I would post it anyway:

Serum Scores
------------------------------
12/08/12 Thanktropin 19.1
12/13/2012 Rips 35.0
12/17/2012 Novotropin 21.0
1/14/2013 Elitropin 23.7
1/21/2013 Thanktropin 21.1
5/21/2013 Thanktropin 23.7
2/02/2014 Serostim 20.3
3/21/2014 Thanktropin 14.9
4/11/2014 Scitropin 1.0
5/29/2014 TSM blue tops 30.4
6/12/2014 TSM blue tops 27.9
6/16/2014 Genotropin 28.4
7/04/2014 Grey tops 27.6
7/21/2014 Humatrope 21.6
8/03/2014 Somastim serum 26.8
9/08/2014 TSM blue tops 27.5

IGF-1 Scores
-------------------------------------
9/7/11 348 Thanktropin
6/13/12 460 Thanktropin
11/19/13 421 Rips
12/12/13 394 Rips
2/24/14 273 Serostim
3/21/2014 238 Thanktropin
4/11/2014 320 Thanktropin
6/12/2014 400 Genotropin
7/21/2014 290 Humatrope
9/08/2014 380 TSM Blue tops

All IGF-1 scores are on 4iu per day. I used to break my shots up and do some in morning and some in the evening; but can't remember when I switched to all in the evening other than I believe its been at least a couple of years.

You may notice some of the serum tests and IGF-1 tests were done on the same date. A couple of times I did a serum test for new GH while doing an IGF-1 test for the GH I had currently been using for at least several weeks. So that is why the dates are the same for some serum while the GH's for the IGF-1 are different(hope that make sense).

Also, I do have a history of IGF-1 tests for many many years and quite a bit on Serostim; but I never wrote down what GH or how much I was using at the time when I did them back then. So I would have to check my log books to organize that info and I have no idea where they even are. Usually I was around 400 with both generics and the Sero's; but my memory is getting bad.

thanks man for the test results bro