Maximizing Tren A Gains...

[Throwback]

So...It seem that i have gotten my hands on a pretty good batch of tren a.
I started thinking about how to maximize it to its full potential to achieve the most gains.
This led to researching different studies of the use of tren a in beef cattle to stimulate their growth.
What i found was a compilation of all the pertinent studies on cattle growth with the final results above baseline given in percentages. 28 pages worth.
Over a typical period of growth in cattle...specifically steers and bulls i found the following.....I'm just using arbitrary weight numbers but the % of gain diff is from the study's.

baseline group of steers..no tren
at completion of study................200lbs

Steers with tren a........................ 224lbs

Steers with tren a and an estroidal implant that effectively RAISED the
estrogen in the male...................251lbs

Thats a 12% weight increase with
tren a over feed only.
But by ADDING in estrogen along with tren a there was a whopping 25.5% increase in muscle mass over feed only.
Now i started thinking about this in our own case for bodybuilding.
I use little to no ai on test doses 600mg and under. Usually i have treated high e2 issues when symptoms pointed that it was climbing.
Mostly emotional indicators.
If adding estrogen doubled the results of tren a use in cattle...would it not follow that allowing ones own estrogen to rise as high as possible say in the 70 to 90 range( provided it caused no unwanted sides) during a tren a...test..cycle in order to maximize gains.
In my case i have had e2 numbers in the 60s without incident other than some fluid retention.
Off cycle it hangs around 29ish.
Maybe by knocking down e2 numbers we have limited the real potential that tren a can provide?
Opinions?
The study results were compiled from a number of studies conducted from 1983 thru 1988 by Peter T Anderson
Title of it is...A review of studies of trenbolone acetate use in beef cattle...

 

[Marcus]

Cool study... my concern would be the issues with raised E2 for a period of time in general, but even that is relatively short for a cycle.

However without keeping E2 in check, you're also looking at prolactin issues with Tren. I don't think I would enjoy lactation and other sides that come along with high prolactin levels

 

[the1_berzerk]

I agree with marcus if your e2 gets high then prolactin will become an issue.

Now are you sure thats all lean tissue? With e2 you would think a lot of that is water weight

 

[Sworder]

Assuming there was only one variable that was different; it would be interesting to see the results if the calories were doubled.

 

[Throwback]

Im not so sure that everyone would have prolactin issues.
If you study the threads on various boards you find a large majority of posts claiming prolactin issues with nothing to back it up but the guy trying to milk his titties for weeks then crying wolf.
Also in an 8 to 10 week tren a a blast with monitored bloodwork how fast does the hormone actually convert and elevate prolactin. Not very.
You can browse thread after thread that guys are crying " i think i have gyno" on a test dose a lil above trt.
Imo 90% is in their head cuz the were pre programed to think it would happen.

 

[Throwback]

I agree with marcus if your e2 gets high then prolactin will become an issue.

Now are you sure thats all lean tissue? With e2 you would think a lot of that is water weight

Have you experienced this or just read about it?
As far as fluid retention...the studies also discuss at length the grading and marbleization of the tissue in the test subject cattle by both ultra sound and inspection of post slaughtered cattle.
When slaughtered at identical weight...say 800 pounds. It took less time for the tren implanted cattle to reach the 800 lbs mark than non treated cattle.
The tren treated cattle had typically 1 grade lower quality tissue...than non treated.
But when allowed the same amount of feeding days the meat quality was comparable but the tren and estro treated cattle were up to 100 lbs heavier.
The studies also broke it down into dressed weight....meaning the usable meat on a carcass after slaughter and the percentages fall in line with the OP %.
Idk...but its an interesting idea.

 

[Robfromga]

I subscribe to the slightly higher E2 isn't the end of the world IF you don't have high E2 symptoms.

However, what is the overall legnth of life for these studies? How long does the tren bull live vs the non tren bull? Long term health issues? I know...I know... Just throwing it out there. Tren is a God compound.

 

[Throwback]

Well life expectancy wasnt good cuz they killed and ate the test subjects.
Another thing that i found interesting was that not all cattle breeds responded to the tren as well as others.
Kind of like people and aas...each breed was a bit different percentage wise and british breeds responded most poorly to tren.
The other point was that the cattle were implanted with only a 140 mg pellet twice over the course of the study.
My thinking here is that due to the potency of tren a...huge quantities in humans are probably not needed.
Im doing 450/week and im just through week two and this shit is working great imo.
In another week im gonna pull bloods again check e2...lipids.. tt prolactin and liver values.
If the numbers come in where i expect them to be i will bump test to at least 500/wk to accelerate aromitization into estrogen then pull bloods 4-5 weeks out again.
That should wrap up this experiment and provide me with some insight as far as how i react with higher e2 and tren.

 

[Marcus]

Well life expectancy wasnt good cuz they killed and ate the test subjects.
Another thing that i found interesting was that not all cattle breeds responded to the tren as well as others.
Kind of like people and aas...each breed was a bit different percentage wise and british breeds responded most poorly to tren.
The other point was that the cattle were implanted with only a 140 mg pellet twice over the course of the study.
My thinking here is that due to the potency of tren a...huge quantities in humans are probably not needed.
Im doing 450/week and im just through week two and this shit is working great imo.
In another week im gonna pull bloods again check e2...lipids.. tt prolactin and liver values.
If the numbers come in where i expect them to be i will bump test to at least 500/wk to accelerate aromitization into estrogen then pull bloods 4-5 weeks out again.
That should wrap up this experiment and provide me with some insight as far as how i react with higher e2 and tren.

Interesting. This might also explain why all those British guys on here complain about Tren

 

[Robfromga]

I also subscribe to lower dose tren. 350 a week will give you a lot! I think a daily dose helps, even with Ace

 

[Throwback]

I also subscribe to lower dose tren. 350 a week will give you a lot! I think a daily dose helps, even with Ace

Ace for me is way better than e has been...right now im inj 60 to 70mg daily then test e at 125 twice a week.
You can feel the tren ace in you...its hard to explain but its like the muscle is growing every night.
Sleep sux but......

 

[Leancuisine]

Did I miss something?
Where is the number 200 coming from?

Bulls weigh upwards of 2500lbs
Cows weigh about half that.
A smaller cow (1100-1200lbs) can provide upwards of 450lbs of boneless meat.

So what does the number 200 mean? Number of pounds they gained?

 

[Leancuisine]

Also regarding the e2, I don't think cows (especially bulls) hold much water weight. I live in bumfuck nowhere and have cornfields in one side of me, and cows in the other. Those mother fuckers have veins in every inch of their body. Massive fucking veins. Skin looks tight everywhere too. I run by them fuckers a few times a week and they try to lick the sweat off of me.

 

[Marcus]

Did I miss something?
Where is the number 200 coming from?

Bulls weigh upwards of 2500lbs
Cows weigh about half that.
A smaller cow (1100-1200lbs) can provide upwards of 450lbs of boneless meat.

So what does the number 200 mean? Number of pounds they gained?

I'm just using arbitrary weight numbers but the % of gain diff is from the study's

 

[Leancuisine]

Ahhh! Alright I understand now. Thank you.

 

[Throwback]

Did I miss something?
Where is the number 200 coming from?

Bulls weigh upwards of 2500lbs
Cows weigh about half that.
A smaller cow (1100-1200lbs) can provide upwards of 450lbs of boneless meat.

So what does the number 200 mean? Number of pounds they gained?

Yeah...what you missed is that i stated that the 200lbs was an arbirtrary number i used to demonstrate the differences in percentile gains over the baseline number of 200.
I could have used 1000 lbs as a baseline but either way the percent of gain remained constant.
One of the reasons those beef cattle are jacked is that they have very little fat in their diets.

 

[Throwback]

@Leancuisine...as far as water retention and cattle go. Your right.
The researchers implanted 2 20mg estrogen pellets over the course of the study.
Unfortunately i didnt see any baseliine bloodwork posted that showed original e2 levels and final e2.
That would have given a fair idea of what i would have shot for percentage wise in elevating my own e2.
Also everyone needs to understand that this should work in theory(mine anyway) but cattle are a bit different in growth rates and metabolism.

 

[Morefyah]

Hmm, interesting subject @Throwback
Now as far as being a human and not a four legged bovine. What dose of Tren do I need to maximize gains? How high should I let my estrogen get? How many calories should I be taking in a day and should I stop consuming all fats? I'm confused How are you personally going to use this study to maximize your gains?

 

[JC456]

I don't know about Bull studies but there are numerous benefits of estrogen in humans. We're talking positive effects on bone density, insulin sensitivity, fat loss, libido, liver function, the list is as long as your arm.

You really want to keep estrogen at a good level. Now that doesn't mean it even needs to be in the same range for TrT. It can be higher, just as long as total testosterone is higher still.

 

[korat]

MWF 75 mg per inject