Medical School

[Mmartin]

Hey guys. This is a bit of an unusual question, but any ideas would help.

I'm in a unique position in that I'm still doing my undergraduate degree while attempting to deal with hypogonadism. I don't like to make excuses, and so I can only say that my hypogonadism - combined with a lack of motivation - has contributed to a relatively poor GPA. Recently I've been considering something drastic, however: medical school. After experiencing first hand a deficient endocrine system, coupled with the complete and utter failure of the Canadian medical system, and hearing of the plight of everybody on these boards, it planted the idea of pursuing a medical degree in my mind. I can't stand how I feel, and can't stand that other men - and women - have to deal with these horrible problems. With hard work I can pull my GPA up to 3.0-3.2 (Canadian), and I have 2 years left to flesh out my volunteer activities and complete the MCAT. With a 3.0-3.2 GPA I can apply to all Canadian medical schools, even if my chances are slim.

So I am asking for advice from anybody who has considered medical school, applied to medical school, or been through medical school.

Is it possible to use hypogonadism as a benefit, turning it into a positive on a medical school application? Or will I be discriminated against precisely because I am hypogonadal?

Any ideas are helpful. Maybe I can finally find some direction, ironically enough through a disease that sapped me of my energy for the past 4 years.

 

[eeso]

I'm in the exact same boat as u. I'm about to finish a law degree and my GPA sucks due to brain fog, energy, and concentration problems associated with low t, and then unsuitable TRT.

It has crossed my mind to go into med but what stops me is that u have to do so much training in other fields before u can specialise in endocrinology.

In Australia, u have to do like 4 years med, and i imagine probably 4-8more years to finally be able to specialize into an area which will allow u to treat hypogonadism and similar areas of medicine.

It's just too much crap to go through first, and too long. If u could specialise straight away in endocrinology then I'd do it.

 

[Mmartin]

I am not necessarily looking to specialize in endocrinology. My first hurdle would be to even get in to med school. Maybe I am just naive, but I feel as though I could help in any specialty.

 

[farmerjohn]

I don't know why you would have to specialize in endorcinology to specialize in hypogonadism. I don't think Dr. Shippen has an endo degree. I think he is an internist or GP who decided to specialize in this area because he has hypogonadism. I have also thought of going back to school to get an MD to do this. There is a huge demand from patients and a huge shortage of doctors who know this subject. I think the medical community is unaware of how many of us are out there, many of us suffering from poor treatment as I did for years before seeing Shippen.

 

[marianco]

Re: Medical School and Hormones of intelligence.

Hey guys. This is a bit of an unusual question, but any ideas would help.

I'm in a unique position in that I'm still doing my undergraduate degree while attempting to deal with hypogonadism. I don't like to make excuses, and so I can only say that my hypogonadism - combined with a lack of motivation - has contributed to a relatively poor GPA. Recently I've been considering something drastic, however: medical school. After experiencing first hand a deficient endocrine system, coupled with the complete and utter failure of the Canadian medical system, and hearing of the plight of everybody on these boards, it planted the idea of pursuing a medical degree in my mind. I can't stand how I feel, and can't stand that other men - and women - have to deal with these horrible problems. With hard work I can pull my GPA up to 3.0-3.2 (Canadian), and I have 2 years left to flesh out my volunteer activities and complete the MCAT. With a 3.0-3.2 GPA I can apply to all Canadian medical schools, even if my chances are slim.

So I am asking for advice from anybody who has considered medical school, applied to medical school, or been through medical school.

Is it possible to use hypogonadism as a benefit, turning it into a positive on a medical school application? Or will I be discriminated against precisely because I am hypogonadal?

Any ideas are helpful. Maybe I can finally find some direction, ironically enough through a disease that sapped me of my energy for the past 4 years.

I would not personally mention hypogonadism. That may weaken a candidate in evaluator's eyes - given the large emotional component that hypogonadism entails.

Finding a positive reason to be a physician is most important - not the negatives about whatever health system one is in.

Medicine is a calling. It requires hard work. It requires love of the work. The best physicians are craftsmen - always honing and improving their skills in whatever they do. Performing their work because they love it. It isn't a job. It is a way of life.

Many physicians today would discourage others from entering medical school realizing the sacrifices involved and the bureaucracy involved. One cannot cure a medical system's problems by oneself. One can focus on being the best physician they can be.

-----

In regard to impaired concentration or intellectual performance, testosterone is not the most important hormone.

Thyroid hormones and some of the adrenal hormones (cortisol, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone) have more to do with clarity of thought than the other hormones.

Thyroid hormone can be thought of as the hormone of intelligence. It improves energy production in every cell in the brain, it allows the production of dopamine, serotonin, GABA, etc. It has a far greater effect on dopamine than testosterone itself.

Cortisol allows one to handle stress and provides the energy - glucose - to fuel the mind.

Pregnenolone is strongly involved with memory and concentration.

Progesterone maintains (via allepregnenolone) the myelin sheeting that insulates nerves and speeds the transmission of signals.

Thus to improve intellectual functioning at least these four hormones need to be optimized. They can all be measured in standard labs.

Thyroid treatment is tricky for a few patients, since there are people with thyroid resistance who have perfectly normal or optimal lab thyroid levels but need actually more because they still show signs of hypothyroidism. This is where an experienced physician becomes necessary to optimize thyroid function - when lab tests become useless (and actually scary with subsequent treatment) and the clinical exam and experience becomes paramount - particularly when the doses used become scary high but yet are necessary for that particular individual. Nothing like crossing one's fingers in a leap of faith while avoiding harming a patient.

Nutrition also is important.

For example, it is important to have B-vitamins to fuel thyroid hormone. Without adequate B-vitamin intake, Thyroid hormone would be spinning its wheels. B-12 for example has to be kept above 400 (200-1100) to maintain also myelin sheeting/nerve insulation.

Thus if one wants to be the best student they can be - first think about thyroid and adrenal function.

Think about it: Women have much less testosterone than men - yet they can just as equally perform intellectually. Wny is that? Because testosterone does not play as large a role in intellectual function as thyroid and the adrenal glands.

 

[Legenden1999]

Re: Medical School and Hormones of intelligence.

In regard to impaired concentration or intellectual performance, testosterone is not the most important hormone.

Thyroid hormones and some of the adrenal hormones (cortisol, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone) have more to do with clarity of thought than the other hormones.

Thyroid hormone can be thought of as the hormone of intelligence. It improves energy production in every cell in the brain, it allows the production of dopamine, serotonin, GABA, etc. It has a far greater effect on dopamine than testosterone itself.

Cortisol allows one to handle stress and provides the energy - glucose - to fuel the mind.

Pregnenolone is strongly involved with memory and concentration.

Progesterone maintains (via allepregnenolone) the myelin sheeting that insulates nerves and speeds the transmission of signals.

Thus to improve intellectual functioning at least these four hormones need to be optimized. They can all be measured in standard labs.

Thyroid treatment is tricky for a few patients, since there are people with thyroid resistance who have perfectly normal or optimal lab thyroid levels but need actually more because they still show signs of hypothyroidism. This is where an experienced physician becomes necessary to optimize thyroid function - when lab tests become useless (and actually scary with subsequent treatment) and the clinical exam and experience becomes paramount - particularly when the doses used become scary high but yet are necessary for that particular individual. Nothing like crossing one's fingers in a leap of faith while avoiding harming a patient.

Nutrition also is important.

For example, it is important to have B-vitamins to fuel thyroid hormone. Without adequate B-vitamin intake, Thyroid hormone would be spinning its wheels. B-12 for example has to be kept above 400 (200-1100) to maintain also myelin sheeting/nerve insulation.

Thus if one wants to be the best student they can be - first think about thyroid and adrenal function.

Think about it: Women have much less testosterone than men - yet they can just as equally perform intellectually. Wny is that? Because testosterone does not play as large a role in intellectual function as thyroid and the adrenal glands.

Very good info!!!

But what excacly does "maintains (via allepregnenolone) the myelin sheeting that insulates nerves and speeds the transmission of signals" mean for mental function?

JH

 

[JanSz]

Re: Medical School and Hormones of intelligence.

I would not personally mention hypogonadism. That may weaken a candidate in evaluator's eyes - given the large emotional component that hypogonadism entails.

Finding a positive reason to be a physician is most important - not the negatives about whatever health system one is in.

Medicine is a calling. It requires hard work. It requires love of the work. The best physicians are craftsmen - always honing and improving their skills in whatever they do. Performing their work because they love it. It isn't a job. It is a way of life.

Many physicians today would discourage others from entering medical school realizing the sacrifices involved and the bureaucracy involved. One cannot cure a medical system's problems by oneself. One can focus on being the best physician they can be.

-----

In regard to impaired concentration or intellectual performance, testosterone is not the most important hormone.

Thyroid hormones and some of the adrenal hormones (cortisol, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone) have more to do with clarity of thought than the other hormones.

Thyroid hormone can be thought of as the hormone of intelligence. It improves energy production in every cell in the brain, it allows the production of dopamine, serotonin, GABA, etc. It has a far greater effect on dopamine than testosterone itself.

Cortisol allows one to handle stress and provides the energy - glucose - to fuel the mind.

Pregnenolone is strongly involved with memory and concentration.
Progesterone maintains (via allepregnenolone) the myelin sheeting that insulates nerves and speeds the transmission of signals.

Thus to improve intellectual functioning at least these four hormones need to be optimized. They can all be measured in standard labs.

Thyroid treatment is tricky for a few patients, since there are people with thyroid resistance who have perfectly normal or optimal lab thyroid levels but need actually more because they still show signs of hypothyroidism. This is where an experienced physician becomes necessary to optimize thyroid function - when lab tests become useless (and actually scary with subsequent treatment) and the clinical exam and experience becomes paramount - particularly when the doses used become scary high but yet are necessary for that particular individual. Nothing like crossing one's fingers in a leap of faith while avoiding harming a patient.

Nutrition also is important.

For example, it is important to have B-vitamins to fuel thyroid hormone. Without adequate B-vitamin intake, Thyroid hormone would be spinning its wheels. B-12 for example has to be kept above 400 (200-1100) to maintain also myelin sheeting/nerve insulation.

Thus if one wants to be the best student they can be - first think about thyroid and adrenal function.

Think about it: Women have much less testosterone than men - yet they can just as equally perform intellectually. Wny is that? Because testosterone does not play as large a role in intellectual function as thyroid and the adrenal glands.

Progesterone--------------------------------------1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
Pregnenolone--------------------------------------23 ng/dL (10200)
How to increase Pregnenolone?
I am taking a lot of supplements, possibly decreasing some would be beneficial.

 

[cpeil2]

Professional standards may vary depending on what country one resides in, but , at least in the US, one does not need to be a board-certified endocrinologist to treat hormonal problems.

Dr. Crisler has stated often that he has no board certification at all.

Marianco is a psychiatrist.


I believe Naturedoc is a naturopathic physician.


Adddoc has stated that he is in family practice.

I know another anti-aging physician who is board-certified in Internal medicine and who practiced emergency medicine before he entered the field of anti-aging medicine.


The doc who founded Cenegenics, Alan Mintz is a radiologist.

I believe Philip Miller, the author of "Life Extension Revolution" was a neurologist before taking up the practice of anti-aging medicine.


The list goes on . . .

 

[Mmartin]

re medical school:

Perhaps my reasons for considering medicine were unclear. The primary focus in my mind is that - with the proper training - I could help to support and improve the lives of other people. I am sure many people go into medicine with this ideal stuck in their head, but I wanted to express that, through the negatives I have experienced, I have uncovered a desire to help others.

re concentration/mental function:

The idea of thyroid resistance is an interesting one. I have a TSH that generally falls between 2 and 3.5 (range 0.5-5.5), with my previous FT3 and FT4 tests at the very top of the normal range. I'm not sure how to describe my concentration and focus problems. It's almost as if I experience some sort of cyclical comprehension/attention disorder that varies with my testosterone and estradiol levels (and, after reading what marianco has said, very possibly other hormones); some days I am completely lucid, and others I cannot even comprehend what's written on the back of a cereal box because my mind is so fogged or I have an utter lack of attention. Some days I cannot stop fidgeting (bouncing knees, playing with hands) for the whole day, whereas others I am almost comatose and fall asleep in all of my classes, despite interest in them. Both result in an inability to focus. It's painful enough trying to convince a doctor to test anything besides the "vanilla" hormone tests like total testosterone or TSH, but I'll have to keep asking and searching.

 

[JustOne]

Bureaucracy, thats the word I was looking for, perfectly describes the reason why most of us here have problems with conventional medicine. Having a cousin who is a doctor I know how bad this can be, its actually quiet shocking and from a patient point of view, discouraging.

So does the 1st day of med school start with a brief that ends up with a handfull of people walking out saying "screw this I'm gonna go study law!"?

 

[marianco]

Pregnenolone.

Progesterone--------------------------------------1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
Pregnenolone--------------------------------------23 ng/dL (10–200)
How to increase Pregnenolone?
I am taking a lot of supplements, possibly decreasing some would be beneficial.

Pregnenolone is an over-the-counter supplement like DHEA.

For men, the usual dose is between 50-100 mg a day to help improve memory and concentration.

It may have stimulant effects - though not a stimulant mechanism of action - and thus should not be taken at night.

Because of the stimulant effects - combining it with Ritalin may cause cause agitation or anxiety.

It is not useful as an anabolic agent - in some cases, it may actually prevent a person from gaining muscle mass when taken at higher doses.

In some men, it would be useful to do a 24-hour hormone metabolite test - before and after treatment with Pregnenolone to determine if pregnenolone is being metabolized into other hormones such as estrogens, particularly when side effects occur.

Pregnenolone is the grandmother of all the other cholesterol-based hormones. In many cases, it is well-tolerated without metabolization to excessive amounts of other hormones which may then cause side effects. But there are always the patients who do have side effects.

In regard to brain concentrations of neuroactive steroids, pregnenolone is the one in the highest concentration, even compared to DHEA.

When the adrenals fatigue, the reduction in production of pregnenolone is one big reason adrenal fatigue impairs memory and concentration - and even mood.

 

[coz]

Re: Pregnenolone.

Pregnenolone is the grandmother of all the other cholesterol-based hormones. In many cases, it is well-tolerated without metabolization to excessive amounts of other hormones which may then cause side effects. But there are always the patients who do have side effects.

Is Pregnenolone made from HDL or LDL cholesterol or both ?

Would having a HDL level lower than normal range affect the amount of Pregnenolone produced in the body ?

 

[marianco]

Bureaucracy, thats the word I was looking for, perfectly describes the reason why most of us here have problems with conventional medicine. Having a cousin who is a doctor I know how bad this can be, its actually quiet shocking and from a patient point of view, discouraging.

So does the 1st day of med school start with a brief that ends up with a handfull of people walking out saying "screw this I'm gonna go study law!"?

The first day of medical school is actually very exciting and a blast.

It's like the first day of elementary school. One instantly has 120 friends.

Everyone is bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, filled with energy, optimism about changing the world for the better.

No physician to be is going to say "screw this, I'm gonna go study law!".

Doctors and Lawyers have very different mindsets.

In general, doctors want to help people, to give of themselves, for the calling of medicine. It is about caring for others - the good samaritan. These days, very few doctors become rich. It is far better to go into business than to medicine because one gives up 11 or more years of their life before they can earn a living in medicine. A brain surgeon, for example, after 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, has to train another 12 years before he or she can practice independently as a brain surgeon. A heart surgeon is in their mid 40s before they can practice on their own.

Lawyers want to argue - day in, day out - argue, argue, argue. To be a great lawyer, one has to have a well of deep seated anger. The anger allows one to take on causes and argue them. One has to be an asshole, a shark, who would twist the truth to win. The only thing that counts is the win. Another notch on one's gavel - the 99% kill-rate. It is not about justice or even the truth. No one pays for justice or the truth. A lawyer gets paid to win. Period. I know many very successful lawyers. They may look nice on the outside, but inside they seeth in anger. That is what makes them successful.

Once in medical school, 99 percent graduate. Thus once one gets in, one has "made it". The only reasons people drop out are for significant personal reasons such as illness - or drug abuse.

Usually one doesn't get cynical about medicine until one is about 2-3 years after graduating from training (residency), and enters the real world. Otherwise, one is fairly shielded. Some doctors I have known, continuously reenter new residencies and specialties - essentially entering one specialty after another - to escape from the real world by staying in school. They are paid when in residency (a relatively small amount but one can survive on it). And while in residency, they are fairly low wage labor for the hospitals they work for. With the hours one puts in, it is ends up being much less than minimum wage.

If anything, once in medical school, if one gets the inkling to want to become a lawyer, generally one first finishes medical school then goes into law school. One then becomes eligible to practice malpractice law or specialize in medical personal injury law, etc. These can be very lucrative fields for a dual MD, JD.

 

[eeso]

Your comments about lawyers are sadly true Which is why I'm itching to get into business/commerce with my law degree rather than actually practice law.

Either the legal profession gives lawyers the deep seeded anger and downhill slide, or it's already there and they channel it through their job as a lawyer. I don't have it, and I don't want my job to give it to me...

This type of medicine appeals to me because it's almost like a puzzle u have to solve with constantly changing variables, but u can make huge positive changes to people's lives, for the entirety of their lives.

But yes, been at uni too long to go into med now, and going through all the other med stuff for 4+years before being able to pursue my own interests is just too much.

That being said, I think anti-aging, hormonal, thyroid etc etc, or "optimization" specialist doctors are going to have a lot of well paid work in the future as the public slowly becomes aware of what they can do.

 

[JustOne]

I have heard of someone going to go practice law and then change there mind for that reason, thats why I imagined people declining medicine for the reasons such as need for emotional detachment, political/legal stuff(I know a handful of doctors secrets ). A mates cousin is a brain surgeon (not independant) and its so stressfull he smokes pot to deal with it, he has families get angry at him because he has to tell them he isnt a certified brain surgeon yet he will be doing some of the operating under supervision.

 

[The_Skeptic]

A mates cousin is a brain surgeon (not independant) and its so stressfull he smokes pot to deal with it,

Not before surgery, I hope.

 

[cpeil2]

Lawyers want to argue - day in, day out - argue, argue, argue. To be a great lawyer, one has to have a well of deep seated anger. The anger allows one to take on causes and argue them. One has to be an asshole, a shark, who would twist the truth to win. The only thing that counts is the win. Another notch on one's gavel - the 99% kill-rate. It is not about justice or even the truth. No one pays for justice or the truth. A lawyer gets paid to win. Period. I know many very successful lawyers. They may look nice on the outside, but inside they seeth in anger. That is what makes them successful.
.

A different way of looking at it is that lawyers are professional advocates who have an ethical obligation to pursue a matter on behalf of their client despite opposition, obstruction or personal convenience to the lawyer.

The client is usually pretty happy with such an arrangement, but the opposing party generally is not.


But, of course, I am a lawyer so I am biased.

 

[JanSz]

Re: Pregnenolone.

Progesterone--------------------------------------1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
Pregnenolone--------------------------------------23 ng/dL (10200)
How to increase Pregnenolone?
I am taking a lot of supplements, possibly decreasing some would be beneficial.

Pregnenolone is an over-the-counter supplement like DHEA.
For men, the usual dose is between 50-100 mg a day to help improve memory and concentration.

It may have stimulant effects - though not a stimulant mechanism of action - and thus should not be taken at night.

Because of the stimulant effects - combining it with Ritalin may cause cause agitation or anxiety.

It is not useful as an anabolic agent - in some cases, it may actually prevent a person from gaining muscle mass when taken at higher doses.

In some men, it would be useful to do a 24-hour hormone metabolite test - before and after treatment with Pregnenolone to determine if pregnenolone is being metabolized into other hormones such as estrogens, particularly when side effects occur.

Pregnenolone is the grandmother of all the other cholesterol-based hormones. In many cases, it is well-tolerated without metabolization to excessive amounts of other hormones which may then cause side effects. But there are always the patients who do have side effects.

In regard to brain concentrations of neuroactive steroids, pregnenolone is the one in the highest concentration, even compared to DHEA.

When the adrenals fatigue, the reduction in production of pregnenolone is one big reason adrenal fatigue impairs memory and concentration - and even mood.

That blood test reflect me taking supplemental 50mg pregnenolone daily as a part of
Cognitex with Pregnenolone & NeuroProtection Complex Item Catalog Number: 822
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00822.html
I have since added additional 100mg pregnenolone daily.
My DHEAs=369ng/dL
after supplementation of 350mg + 100mg 7ketoDHEA daily
LEF recomends level of 500-640 ug/dL

 

[adddoc]

Hey guys. This is a bit of an unusual question, but any ideas would help.

I'm in a unique position in that I'm still doing my undergraduate degree while attempting to deal with hypogonadism. I don't like to make excuses, and so I can only say that my hypogonadism - combined with a lack of motivation - has contributed to a relatively poor GPA. Recently I've been considering something drastic, however: medical school. After experiencing first hand a deficient endocrine system, coupled with the complete and utter failure of the Canadian medical system, and hearing of the plight of everybody on these boards, it planted the idea of pursuing a medical degree in my mind. I can't stand how I feel, and can't stand that other men - and women - have to deal with these horrible problems. With hard work I can pull my GPA up to 3.0-3.2 (Canadian), and I have 2 years left to flesh out my volunteer activities and complete the MCAT. With a 3.0-3.2 GPA I can apply to all Canadian medical schools, even if my chances are slim.

So I am asking for advice from anybody who has considered medical school, applied to medical school, or been through medical school.

Is it possible to use hypogonadism as a benefit, turning it into a positive on a medical school application? Or will I be discriminated against precisely because I am hypogonadal?

Any ideas are helpful. Maybe I can finally find some direction, ironically enough through a disease that sapped me of my energy for the past 4 years.

FYI - a low GPA is the biggest hurdle you will have getting into med school. Excuses won't get you past the initial thinning of applications as that is purely a GPA based exercise. You need to get the GPA up regardless of disease state before even considering medical school or you will be spinning your wheels trying to explain why your gpa wasn't up to muster. The problem isn't that people don't care about your performance difficulties being other than intellectual, they simply have limited spots available and many applicants. Solve yuor issues, get an adequate GPA and then apply.

adddoc

 

[adddoc]

If anything, once in medical school, if one gets the inkling to want to become a lawyer, generally one first finishes medical school then goes into law school. One then becomes eligible to practice malpractice law or specialize in medical personal injury law, etc. These can be very lucrative fields for a dual MD, JD.

After finishing residency I went to Law school. The MD/JD thing seemed ideal to get out of the clinic and into the CEO suite. After two years of law school I realized that my true calling was the clinic. Finished law school, then went straight back to the clinic and I don't even put the JD on my business cards. Anyway, the different mindsets are truly remarkable. To say that all lawyers want to do is argue is a mis-statement (respectfully).

Lawyers want to "zealously" represent their client and the true belief is that the law will sort out the winner and loser as the law is the controlling factor not the lawyers. The final arbitrator is the completely unbiased judge who simply interprets the law as it was intended . . . ok, I am having trouble finishing this statement with a straight face.

Bottom-line - physicians count results and success as whether or not the patient is improved, comforted, or "cured", lawyers count success as how many gavels were in their favor. There are a group of attorneys who make no money and really are true servants of society - district attorneys (really assistant DA's) . . . otherwise, I agree with your assessment. Of course, they prosecute guys for simply possessing illegal substances and that sucks sometimes . . .

adddoc