MESO "Specialized" Testing Group Fund

[readalot]

Ok, I realize I did not put this up for a vote clearly.

Almost 10 year old vial of Tren E in GSO. Oil should be not G2G. Sitting in a drawer at room temp for 10 years.

Please vote if we should send off for HPLC plus GCMS testing.

Cost: 240 USD + 5 USD for HPLC raw data so we get the LC chromatogram traces. Plus shipping plus whatever time @Nixonnow99 wants to charge to get it packaged and sent if he is willing.

It is plenty dark. Anything in there?

Please cast your vote:

Like: yes I will support with under 20 bucks

Love: yes I will support with over 20 bucks

Funny: are you joking?

Wow: I support but won't donate

Sad: this whole effort hurts my soul

Dislike: no don't send to jano

Angry: give up readalot you waste of time

Let's let @Nixonnow99 know whether to toss the vial or give it a good final home for science.

Thank you!

P.S. those that already donated should vote too. There is still 400 USD leftover in the fund. Make your vote heard.

View attachment 345233View attachment 345234

So far 1 vote for and 1 against on testing 10 yr old vial. If folks could react to the post above with their vote that would be helpful.


In addition...
@janoshik shared that his team was able to further darken the "c" sample presumably with mixing, heat, and air to entrain more O2 in solution. I have asked him to comment on next steps. Request another 240 USD for another round of testing from the fund? This experiment and testing would be logical and sound extension to work already performed.

Thank you.

 

[Photon]

So far 1 vote for and 1 against on testing 10 yr old vial. If folks could react to the post above with their vote that would be helpful.


In addition...
@janoshik shared that his team was able to further darken the "c" sample presumably with mixing, heat, and air to entrain more O2 in solution. I have asked him to comment on next steps. Request another 240 USD for another round of testing from the fund? This experiment and testing would be logical and sound extension to work already performed.

Thank you.

I'm thinking whatever is changing is not going to show up on gcms. It's probably not the right test for it. But if u do proceed, make it dark. Like really really really dark.

Rather than testing that GSO vial you might at well make this vial the same color instead.

 

[readalot]

Sample b:
Janoshik Analytical
Sample c:
Janoshik Analytical

Reports for the "b" and "c" samples have been updated to include the HPLC raw data. Thank you @janoshik for generously contributing these data free of charge to the project. I really appreciate it.

So there you have it folks, all the data at your fingertips. The HPLC raw data also has the BB composition for those samples @Photon.

 

[readalot]

Rather than testing that GSO vial you might at well make this vial the same color instead.

That is my goal. Hopefully we can get a pic.

Good point on the color chemistry. Very difficult to quantify impurities that impart color. And they may be at low concentrations. At the least we will have data to show effect on tren composition. If no issues people can run their dark tren with some confidence there aren't major degradation products present.

 

[Tdeck81]

My 2 cents…stick with testing on the control samples. Using older products that have been exposed to god knows what, either during processing or storage, sounds like a goose chase. When I think of studies, science, I think of processes that can be replicated to produce know, theorized, results. I’m thinking stick within a narrow scope until there is an idea to expand upon.

I understand there is potential knowledge in everything, but where would we even begin trying to interpret any discrepancies, if we don’t know what we started with?

If I’m missing the bigger picture feel free to educate me. I will not be insulted.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

My 2 cents…stick with testing on the control samples. Using older products that have been exposed to god knows what, either during processing or storage, sounds like a goose chase. When I think of studies, science, I think of processes that can be replicated to produce know, theorized, results. I’m thinking stick within a narrow scope until there is an idea to expand upon.

I understand there is potential knowledge in everything, but where would we even begin trying to interpret any discrepancies, if we don’t know what we started with?

If I’m missing the bigger picture feel free to educate me. I will not be insulted.

I’d say it was more so just an outlier to be an extreme case of degradation. Mainly curiosity, and not to be used with, or against the current controls.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I'm thinking whatever is changing is not going to show up on gcms. It's probably not the right test for it. But if u do proceed, make it dark. Like really really really dark.

Rather than testing that GSO vial you might at well make this vial the same color instead.

That's what I meant here, by saying there's stuff GCMS can & can't detect, and it seems like whatever makes tren dark is something GCMS can't detect

Tren color isn't related to potency (compare visual inspection with any of the HPLC reports we already had before this project)

My 2 cents…stick with testing on the control samples. Using older products that have been exposed to god knows what, either during processing or storage, sounds like a goose chase. When I think of studies, science, I think of processes that can be replicated to produce know, theorized, results. I’m thinking stick within a narrow scope until there is an idea to expand upon.

I understand there is potential knowledge in everything, but where would we even begin trying to interpret any discrepancies, if we don’t know what we started with?

If I’m missing the bigger picture feel free to educate me. I will not be insulted.

That pretty much sums it up

Throwing more money at trying to figure out what makes tren light/dark could be described as a goose chase - at best it was a fishing expedition

 

[TallandSmall]

So everyone is contributing money to do the tests you'd like done before you choose a tren to run, to find the "best" tren

Cool

slice & dice this reply however you'd like

If people are donating then they must be curious too. I don’t think anyone is being taken advantage of for @readalot personal tren shopping. No one else is going to do any kind of legit, approved study. Jano and the tests available through him are the only options, so let’s try it out. Finding nothing is still learning something. Those of you who keep saying it makes no difference can say you were right, and those of us who are less risk tolerant can feel more comfortable about the unknowns. I’ve done a fair amount of my own testing, but I’d be broke if I personally tested everything I have out of pocket. I can always afford to pitch in for a group test though.

 

[Tdeck81]

trying to figure out what makes tren light/dark could be described as a goose chase

If we begin testing random samples that have not had prior testing, similar to our control group, then I agree. This does not mean I’m against scope creep, but I doubt I’d keep contributing financially.

I still support manipulating the control group in hopes of learning something useful. To be fair, I really have no intention of using Tren at this point so I understand why others are more curious/invested.

 

[readalot]

Tren color isn't related to potency (compare visual inspection with any of the HPLC reports we already had before this project)

I see you wrote this very carefully. It does directly contradict @janoshik 's public statements. Of course if "we" does not include Jano, then you skate by on a technicality.

We do know @janoshik has seen HPLC data that shows clear impurity peaks with darkly colored tren. But of course you used the word potency here to confuse the reader. We are NOT just testing for potency here.

Another key question is how dark a tren sample needs to be before degradation impurity peaks show up by HPLC or GCMS? Appears you are trying to call off / influence the methodical testing before we get this final sample back. Why? Just protecting the good citizens of MESO?

Was a fishing expedition? How would you have constructed a better DOE with the resources available? If you already knew the answer why not weigh in and save everyone the money from the start?

You actually suggest I am trying to use member money for my personal benefit? Really? Really shitty for a scientist to act like this. You show up after the work is done. Disappointed in you.

How much money did you lose on the fishing expedition?

 

[readalot]

before you choose a tren to run, to find the "best" tren

Also, just so the reader understands, chemically speaking the best TRA injectable was sent to Jano for this project.

100% TRA raw purity (as far as we can tell, measurement error, etc, blah blah), BA, BB, and righteous MCT. There is nothing better on the UG market. Period. And it was made by a member.

Well done @kain for helping us on this project and making a fantastic experimental control! Saved my ass having to not get mixed up with a vendor to supply the control. Then I would have gotten more shit about conflicts, etc. Appreciate you man.

 

[readalot]

Get your ass back in here @dinfar1337. And behave yourself.

https://steroidsourcetalk.cc/index.php?threads/1234.26334/post-243509

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

Tren color isn't related to potency (compare visual inspection with any of the HPLC reports we already had before this project)

Jano himself previously stated, if there was one thing he could confidently state, it was the exact opposite of what you just said, brother.

Why don’t you just chill and let it play out. It literally has no baring on you.

Many of us ARE interested in how this plays out. The back and forth accusations are just emotional nonsense.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

Too add. This is one of the most used, and least studied compounds.

As something that’s a staple in my rotation, and many others, I’d like to know as much as we can about it.

Could overcooking lead to a high amount of carcinogens. I’d rather not get cancer from tren if avoidable.

Seemed a little asinine to bash harm reduction, on a harm reduction forum. Regardless of what that approach is.

 

[RockyP]

Sooo I have a batch of Tren Ace from a VERY reputable vendor that looks like bourbon. Is the working hypothesis that this is loaded with impurities and should be tossed in favor of a sav blanc version?

 

[AlexDavis43]

I see you wrote this very carefully. It does directly contradict @janoshik 's public statements. Of course if "we" does not include Jano, then you skate by on a technicality.

We do know @janoshik has seen HPLC data that shows clear impurity peaks with darkly colored tren. But of course you used the word potency here to confuse the reader. We are NOT just testing for potency here.

Another key question is how dark a tren sample needs to be before degradation impurity peaks show up by HPLC or GCMS? Appears you are trying to call off / influence the methodical testing before we get this final sample back. Why? Just protecting the good citizens of MESO?

Was a fishing expedition? How would you have constructed a better DOE with the resources available? If you already knew the answer why not weigh in and save everyone the money from the start?

You actually suggest I am trying to use member money for my personal benefit? Really? Really shitty for a scientist to act like this. You show up after the work is done. Disappointed in you.

How much money did you lose on the fishing expedition?

I'm just a knuckle dragger in the peanut gallery

Carry on

 

[AlexDavis43]

The back and forth accusations are just emotional nonsense.

Not emotional at all, at least on my part

Seemed a little asinine to bash harm reduction, on a harm reduction forum. Regardless of what that approach is.

Also not bashing harm reduction

Where does that accusation even come from ?

Not being a cheerleader for certain tests isn't the same as bashing harm reduction

I called this one a fishing expedition because that's what it was; compare to an HPLC test of a raw or finished oil where 'no answer' isn't really a possibility (nothing wrong with fishing expeditions; I've done many in the lab)

 

[readalot]

Sooo I have a batch of Tren Ace from a VERY reputable vendor that looks like bourbon. Is the working hypothesis that this is loaded with impurities and should be tossed in favor of a sav blanc version?

Search results for query: Hypothesis

thinksteroids.com

Goal is to have more data/answers if possible. Extension of vial "TRA-c". See above.

 

[readalot]

Moral of the story: I don't know if color has a meaningful impact on the effects of tren, but if it does it's not a very meaningful impact

I see this was worded very carefully

What are the time & temperature conditions that produce low, medium, and dark tren ?

Or is that another guessing game, more trial & error (and on who's dime?) ?

So everyone is contributing money to do the tests you'd like done before you choose a tren to run, to find the "best" tren

Cool

slice & dice this reply however you'd like

I'm just a knuckle dragger in the peanut gallery

Carry on

15 Signs Of Passive-Aggressive Behavior With Examples

Passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by indirect resistance to others' demands and avoidance of direct confrontation. It often involves showing irritability or hostility through subtle means like critical comments, sarcasm, cynicism, or complaints about minor issues.

www.simplypsychology.org

 

[RockyP]

Search results for query: Hypothesis

thinksteroids.com

Goal is to have more data/answers if possible. Extension of vial "TRA-c". See above.

Thank you. Found it on page 24. Very reasonable hypothesis.