Micro dosing Tren?

[Type-IIx]

You kidding?

Kinda (I don't think you were being insulting and I'm not insulted), but I am serious that the cited study as well as a query for androgen thermogenesis indicates zero influence of androgens on thermogenesis/RMR/REE in man. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we can rule this out as a mechanism by which tren decreases adipose tissue.

 

[hometeam]

@Type-IIx It's not hard to find research about testosterone increasing metabolic rate in humans:

Effect of testosterone on metabolic rate and body composition in normal men and men with muscular dystrophy - PubMed

We have examined the effect of testosterone enanthate injections (3 mg/kg.week, im) on the basal metabolic rate (BMR) estimated by indirect calorimetry and on lean body mass (LBM) estimated by 40K counting in four normal men and nine men with muscular dystrophy. Testosterone treatment increased...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Harder for other androgens because they are tightly controlled by the DEA.

 

[EamonDeValera]

I am actually, just test and orals for now.

I might give deca a go on my next cycle if I’m feeling naughty.

If I handle deca well with no side effects I’ll try Tren on the cycle after that.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx It's not hard to find research about testosterone increasing metabolic rate in humans:

Effect of testosterone on metabolic rate and body composition in normal men and men with muscular dystrophy - PubMed

We have examined the effect of testosterone enanthate injections (3 mg/kg.week, im) on the basal metabolic rate (BMR) estimated by indirect calorimetry and on lean body mass (LBM) estimated by 40K counting in four normal men and nine men with muscular dystrophy. Testosterone treatment increased...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Harder for other androgens because they are tightly controlled by the DEA.

Did you read it man? "The normal men did not have an increase in adjusted BMR." So, in men without muscular dystrophy any increase in BMR was due to long-term increase in skeletal muscle mass. Come on brother!

 

[hometeam]

Did you read it man? "The normal men did not have an increase in adjusted BMR." So, in men without muscular dystrophy any increase in BMR was due to long-term increase in skeletal muscle mass. Come on brother!

Did you?
"BMR increased significantly after 3 months of testosterone treatment (mean, 10%; P less than 0.01; 13% mean increase in the men with muscular dystrophy and 7% mean increase in the normal subjects). BMR remained elevated (mean increase, 9%) after 12 months of testosterone treatment in four men with muscular dystrophy"
"We conclude that there is a significant increase in BMR associated with pharmacological testosterone treatment, which for the most part is explained by the increase in LBM. However, in men with muscular dystrophy, there is a small hypermetabolic effect of testosterone beyond that explained by increased LBM."

 

[hometeam]

And here's another:

https://joe.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/joe/217/3/R25.xml

 

[Type-IIx]

Did you?
"BMR increased significantly after 3 months of testosterone treatment (mean, 10%; P less than 0.01; 13% mean increase in the men with muscular dystrophy and 7% mean increase in the normal subjects). BMR remained elevated (mean increase, 9%) after 12 months of testosterone treatment in four men with muscular dystrophy"
"We conclude that there is a significant increase in BMR associated with pharmacological testosterone treatment, which for the most part is explained by the increase in LBM. However, in men with muscular dystrophy, there is a small hypermetabolic effect of testosterone beyond that explained by increased LBM."

Yes, that rehashes exactly what I said! There's no significant effect on RMR by T (or androgens generally). Rather, any long-term increase is attributable to the metabolic cost of skeletal muscle mass maintenance. This is known.

 

[Type-IIx]

And here's another:

https://joe.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/joe/217/3/R25.xml

Another irrelevant link... Androgens don't augment RMR, however, they do increase skeletal muscle chronically. Do you see how this is irrelevant to the issue of tren night sweats?

 

[hometeam]

Yes, that rehashes exactly what I said! There's no significant effect on RMR by T (or androgens generally). Rather, any long-term increase is attributable to the metabolic cost of skeletal muscle mass maintenance. This is known.

That doesn't mean that RMR isn't increased.

Hey, I've been trained to use metabolic carts and find VO2 which is calculated into RMR and REE. These people clearly had higher RMR and REE after the testosterone treatment. Explain it away as you want.

 

[Type-IIx]

That doesn't mean that RMR isn't increased.

Hey, I've been trained to use metabolic carts and find VO2 which is calculated into RMR and REE. These people clearly had higher RMR and REE after the testosterone treatment. Explain it away as you want.

Publish your data and it may be authoritative (and novel to boot). As of right now, meh.

 

[hometeam]

Publish your data and it may be authoritative (and novel to boot). As of right now, meh.

You really think testosterone does nothing to your metabolism?

 

[Type-IIx]

You really think testosterone does nothing to your metabolism?

I think it clearly affects metabolism, however, it doesn't affect metabolic rate, resting energy expenditure, nor thermogenesis for healthy adults on supraphysiological doses.

 

[hometeam]

I think it clearly affects metabolism, however, it doesn't affect metabolic rate, resting energy expenditure, nor thermogenesis for healthy adults on supraphysiological doses.

Well that would be a good study to put to the test. Unfortunately ethics committees probably wouldn't approve giving normal men a gram of testosterone to show how it changes their metabolic rates
Let alone tren.

But you put a 55 yr old man on 200mg test and my guess is he'll have the metabolism of a teenager, or somewhat close.

 

[Type-IIx]

Well that would be a good study to put to the test. Unfortunately ethics committees probably wouldn't approve giving normal men a gram of testosterone to show how it changes their metabolic rates
Let alone tren.

But you put a 55 yr old man on 200mg test and my guess is he'll have the metabolism of a teenager, or somewhat close.

Generally seems true, though Bhasin did it in 2001, up to 600mg, but didn't publish data on any aspect of T involving RMR (if he had we could reference that; it may exist unpublished). It's clear from the Bhasin work since, however, on the proposed mechanisms for the decrease in adipose tissue being due to commitment of pluripotent mesenchymal stem cells to a non-adipogenic lineage, that he is convinced it's not attributable to the above (RMR, etc.)

But I'd be interested in your data on hypogonadal males (otherwise healthy) also, even with replacement T. It'd support a direct effect of T on metabolic rate in my view, and be very interesting.

 

[zeiko]

“The steaks have never been higher.” That’s some funny shit Rickt!

I’ve gotten enough out of this thread to help me. My Tren is in the mail now. I follow a guy on YouTube that is on a cruise with 200 mg Test E and 50 mg Tren E per week. He’s on week 6 and reported that his strength is still up and he’s still getting PRs in the gym, despite going from 500 mg of Tren during his blast.

I started 50mg a week using Tren A on Friday (injected 1x per week). The reason I'm using A is that I don't want an overlap of half-lives like with the longer esters. I want 50mg a week to be 50mg a week, not like with E where if you pin weekly, 50mg is actually more than that by week 2 because the 2nd jab starts while there's around 25% of first injection still left. Also, by the time the next Friday comes around, the concentration In the blood is low to the point of almost clearing, then the next 50 is essentially 50 again. My research shows me A has a half life of 1 day, and E is 4.5 days - so that's the assumption on that part. I could probably get away with E every 10 days or so, A just allows me to 'getaway' quickly.

I've tried 200mg E before and, being an insomniac already, that dose made my sleeplessness intolerable. Thankfully in the 2 nights since I took A, I've slept like a baby, with no sides of note other than elevated HR (which I get from it anyway) and a little more sweating during the night. I expect this to stop as the ester begins clearing mid-week which is another reason I'm using A.

I should add that the main reason I'm using it is the anti-catabolic effect during dieting because of its high affinity for the glucocorticoid receptor unlike most AAS. I'm not using it with main intention as to grow, but I've no doubt that the dose would be more than enough - following on from what IIx said on the first page.

 

[TheRealJhon]

I started 50mg a week using Tren A on Friday (injected 1x per week). The reason I'm using A is that I don't want an overlap of half-lives like with the longer esters. I want 50mg a week to be 50mg a week, not like with E where if you pin weekly, 50mg is actually more than that by week 2 because the 2nd jab starts while there's around 25% of first injection still left. Also, by the time the next Friday comes around, the concentration In the blood is low to the point of almost clearing, then the next 50 is essentially 50 again. My research shows me A has a half life of 1 day, and E is 4.5 days - so that's the assumption on that part. I could probably get away with E every 10 days or so, A just allows me to 'getaway' quickly.

I've tried 200mg E before and, being an insomniac already, that dose made my sleeplessness intolerable. Thankfully in the 2 nights since I took A, I've slept like a baby, with no sides of note other than elevated HR (which I get from it anyway) and a little more sweating during the night. I expect this to stop as the ester begins clearing mid-week which is another reason I'm using A.

I should add that the main reason I'm using it is the anti-catabolic effect during dieting because of its high affinity for the glucocorticoid receptor unlike most AAS. I'm not using it with main intention as to grow, but I've no doubt that the dose would be more than enough - following on from what IIx said on the first page.

I am debating on pinning my 50mg Tren (Hex) on Weds since I’m on a MWF schedule with my Test C but on pin the HCG on MF. Figured I could get away with once per week since it’s a long ester.

 

[zeiko]

I am debating on pinning my 50mg Tren (Hex) on Weds since I’m on a MWF schedule with my Test C but on pin the HCG on MF. Figured I could get away with once per week since it’s a long ester.

I like to use the shorter acting ones with tren so that if anything goes wrong I can be out quickly. All I'd say is that I believe hex has a half-life of 8 days. So if you pin once a week, you'll have around half the dose left by the next pin - meaning your dose isn't going to remain 50mg a week after week 2 - it'll cap to somewhere around 100mg after the ester build up by week 5.

So if you truly want to do just 50mg and it really matters that it's just 50 (like it does for me) spread the injections to be every 16 days. Unless of course you don't tolerate 'unstable' levels - but I personally see no difference between stable or not. Whatever people are comfortable with; just wanted to reiterate the dose thing - it may start as 50mg but it won't be past week 2 if a long ester is pinned before/on its half life. Apologies as you may already know - its just easy to forgot so thought I'd mention.

 

[TheRealJhon]

So if you truly want to do just 50mg and it really matters that it's just 50 (like it does for me) spread the injections to be every 16 days. Unless of course you don't tolerate 'unstable' levels - but I personally see no difference between stable or not.

@zeiko thanks for that insight. This is why I shared my thoughts, as a sanity check of sorts. Funny, I was also debating pinning 25mg on MF, but the half life logic remains the same. Since this is my first go at Tren at all, less frequent (i.e. every 16 days) could be the move. Im going to chew on this for today. Thanks again.

 

[VenomYo]

@zeiko thanks for that insight. This is why I shared my thoughts, as a sanity check of sorts. Funny, I was also debating pinning 25mg on MF, but the half life logic remains the same. Since this is my first go at Tren at all, less frequent (i.e. every 16 days) could be the move. Im going to chew on this for today. Thanks again.

dang tren hex, nice. i always wanted to see what the hype was about, hopefully ill get to try it myself sooner or later

 

[Jericho]

I've had next to no side effects at 70ml per day. I started with 40 and worked up to 70. Maybe restless sleep but Thats more of a Me thing.