Mostly recovered to natty levels 4weeks post final pin without any PCT drugs

marsupial

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Got some post cycle bloods exactly 4w after last pin. Was on for a total of 20 weeks. Was on test 350 for 14w (which put me at 2200 TT trough with ED pins), then 250 for 3w, then 150, 125, and then 100 for each of the last 3w. Reason I did the taper was to prevent acne from going crazy (which it absolutely would've otherwise, as was happening on cycle until I utilized AI properly) and I was feeling kinda sick of the insomnia and high E2 after the 14w, but still wanted to make some strength gains. In the last month, I wanted to just cruise and cut some of the fat I gained on cycle (I controlled E2 poorly and will definitely be more aggressive about that in my next blast later on).

I got bloods drawn 4w after the last pin to try and time my PCT properly, but to my surprise, I was at 500 something with LH and FSH both around 4.0. My precycle level taken around same time of day was 720. I was under the impression that people typically needed multiple months of suffering and pounding PCT drugs to recover, but I think as of now, I'm just gonna continue to eat clean and supplement vitamins + boron rather than start tamoxifen. I have been taking some aromasin whenever I've felt estrogen flares. May continue to take it every 5 days or so for the next few weeks to further aid in recovering back to 700. Balls are still kinda small but I think they'll recover some with time. I'd be relieved if they stay a bit smaller than before because they were quite large before.

As of now, definitely lost a decent amount of glycogen and water, but kept pretty much all the new tissue. Hoping to keep keeping as much as possible in coming months and plan to keep lifting heavy. I have had no dick issues at all in this last month, and I even had cialis on hand just in case (along with nolva and clomid neither of which I've touched). I've had some sleep issues that I've used some trazodone for, and I tolerate bad sleep way worse this past month. But good sleep and I feel perfectly normal, and dick still gets hard as diamond. I can function perfectly ok throughout the day with my morning coffee (though I stopped all caffeine intake on cycle to help with sleep). On cycle I lifted 4-5d a week, now I do 3 max to prevent injury soon after cycle.

Hematocrit is still a bit high, as expected given my timeline (RBC lifespan 120d). I'd think it will normalize after 1 more month.

What do you all think? Would starting tamoxifen help with the final bit of recovery? I'm very glad I did not hop off after 12 weeks. Hoping to not feel the need to blast again so soon. Ideally at least for 6 months.
 
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Quite interesting. But with 100mg Testosterone, (assuming enanthate) your body would have processed through the remaining testosterone rather quickly, and be asking your balls to produce.

I was at 450 after a test-anavar cycle from 800 precycle. Although, I was on HCG on cycle back then. Lets see what levels I would have this time around after a month
 
Quite interesting. But with 100mg Testosterone, (assuming enanthate) your body would have processed through the remaining testosterone rather quickly, and be asking your balls to produce.

I was at 450 after a test-anavar cycle from 800 precycle. Although, I was on HCG on cycle back then. Lets see what levels I would have this time around after a month
Huh? Plenty of people stick with 100 for trt which puts them at a 600+ trough
 
What do you mean? The discussing is about post cycle testosterone levels.
Wasn’t clear. Was trying to say that I had thought that people typically don’t recover the next week from 100 mg. Time shut down = time shut down either way, and drug clearance is same for all doses and takes 4 half lives to clear, only after which your hpta will be able to restart…or so I thought

If 100 mg can be cleared more rapidly, maybe people should just cruise on 100 mg for a month rather than stopping everything and then taking pct drugs
 
Also there is zero doubt in my mind that even people who post natty bloodwork trying to prove they’re natty are not lifetime natty, even if their bloodwork suggests they are. After one month of pct it’s likely not hard for most people to have normal appearing bloodwork. After having done my first cycle there’s no way a fake natty who didn’t start with a significantly above average genetic baseline will be able to trick me
 
What do you all think? Would starting tamoxifen help with the final bit of recovery? I'm very glad I did not hop off after 12 weeks. Hoping to not feel the need to blast again so soon. Ideally at least for 6 months.
Did you use HCG while on cycle? What's your age (range is okay if you don't want to disclose). Just curious.

How is your E2 post cycle? Make sure you test E2 with ultra sensitive method. What's your free test post cycle? Use an accurate test like equilibrium dialysis. Was your total T test done with an accurate method (LCMS)?

500 something is pretty close to your pre-cycle level of 700. So close that the difference may just be a natural day to day fluctuation.

Which test supplements are you taking? I found fadogia/tongkat boosted my natural test levels. But if your E2 is currently on the higher end of normal, taking a test boosting supplement may actually hinder your recovery since E2 has negative feedback on the HPTA.

Personally I'd consider enclomiphene instead of tamoxifen to help with the final bit of recovery (assuming your E2 isn't above the higher normal range). Low dose and not every day. I'm saying enclo because I'm not as familiar with tamoxifen dosage and timing since I focused my research on enclo for my PCT.
 
Wasn’t clear. Was trying to say that I had thought that people typically don’t recover the next week from 100 mg. Time shut down = time shut down either way, and drug clearance is same for all doses and takes 4 half lives to clear, only after which your hpta will be able to restart…or so I thought

If 100 mg can be cleared more rapidly, maybe people should just cruise on 100 mg for a month rather than stopping everything and then taking pct drugs
100mg testosterone clears out very quickly, brain starts lacks testosterone/estrogen, starts pumping out LH/FSH. Since it was not shut down long, the balls are not completely shut either. So it starts responding to LH/FSH and starts pumping out testosterone
 
100mg testosterone clears out very quickly, brain starts lacks testosterone/estrogen, starts pumping out LH/FSH. Since it was not shut down long, the balls are not completely shut either. So it starts responding to LH/FSH and starts pumping out testosterone
Yea. I guess after 4 half lives there really is much less of the gear than if it were 500 mg. Other huge difference is that this drug is an actual hormone our hypothalamus and pituitary respond to rather than some entirely exogenous substance that exerts some mechanism of action and is then eliminated, so I think the blanket 4 half life rule can’t apply to every dose of test
 
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Did you use HCG while on cycle? What's your age (range is okay if you don't want to disclose). Just curious.

How is your E2 post cycle? Make sure you test E2 with ultra sensitive method. What's your free test post cycle? Use an accurate test like equilibrium dialysis. Was your total T test done with an accurate method (LCMS)?

500 something is pretty close to your pre-cycle level of 700. So close that the difference may just be a natural day to day fluctuation.

Which test supplements are you taking? I found fadogia/tongkat boosted my natural test levels. But if your E2 is currently on the higher end of normal, taking a test boosting supplement may actually hinder your recovery since E2 has negative feedback on the HPTA.

Personally I'd consider enclomiphene instead of tamoxifen to help with the final bit of recovery (assuming your E2 isn't above the higher normal range). Low dose and not every day. I'm saying enclo because I'm not as familiar with tamoxifen dosage and timing since I focused my research on enclo for my PCT.
Age range 25-30. Did not use Hcg at all (and i’m glad because high E fucked with my mood at times). No test supplements, but taking vit D, boron, magnesium, zinc, and creatine Hcl. My E2 was drawn and I had taken 6.25 mg aromasin night before, and it was 16. I function way better with lower E than high, and I never crashed E on cycle. Like I said looking back I should’ve taken AI from the beginning. I’ll likely just keep taking small AI doses for the next few weeks to aid in recovery. Seems much better than taking SERMs and dealing with their possible sides (esp estrogenic sides from zuclomiphene)

Never tested free test tbh.

I think I’m just gonna keep supplementing as is. I feel totally normal for now. If I had known how easy I could recover from my first cycle cold turkey I would’ve maybe hopped on at an earlier age, not gonna lie, but then again, maybe I’d have been more reckless and blasted too much afterward
 
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How old are you? I noticed my first couple cycles didnt shut me down at all. I was really young tho. Could just be you dont get shut down that hard from test. Thats a good thing. Id pull bloods again in a couple months just to see.
 
How old are you? I noticed my first couple cycles didnt shut me down at all. I was really young tho. Could just be you dont get shut down that hard from test. Thats a good thing. Id pull bloods again in a couple months just to see.
28. Not that young anymore in my opinion. Really starting to regret not doing my first cycle earlier in life when I could’ve benefitted more, especially seeing that I recovered fine now.
 
I had slight mental health issues on cycle though. No gross rage but definitely held grudges, picked fights in social circle, and couldn’t let small things go. Girl I was with walked but that was more complicated and was a blessing
 
28. Not that young anymore in my opinion. Really starting to regret not doing my first cycle earlier in life when I could’ve benefitted more, especially seeing that I recovered fine now.
nah man youre still coming into your prime. Im 30 and I feel like a bodybuilders prime is mid 30s. Just my opinion but If i could go back I wouldve started cycling at 25.
 
nah man youre still coming into your prime. Im 30 and I feel like a bodybuilders prime is mid 30s. Just my opinion but If i could go back I wouldve started cycling at 25.
Eh. I don’t think I’ll compete for a while. I may do NPC stuff in the future after I cycle and then recover but idk. My main point was that I could’ve benefited from gear far more at age 25 or even age 23 (but I still had a lot to learn about training in general at that age)
 
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