You should get your FT also.My TT was 713 in the normal range but my FT was low 5.4 (6.6-19.1) and i still have low T symptoms.....
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
My introduction.....
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Yeah I have 2 ½ years of SHBG and fT results. Much like E2 neither has ever deviated all that much from normal or where you'd expect them to be based on tT - both on and off TRT. My fT has always followed my tT.
In other words tT has always been the most accurate way of correlating lab results with how I feel. I have no doubt my fT will be on the lower side because my tT is low.
In other words tT has always been the most accurate way of correlating lab results with how I feel. I have no doubt my fT will be on the lower side because my tT is low.
I think the extra time is needed, not to let the SERMs clear, but to allow you to better gauge how you're doing. The falling hormone levels after coming off T and/or SERMs would make anyone sluggish, but you want to see and feel if it stops declining and then stays that way. That takes time.
1. I don't think you can. They don't appear to follow the pattern of primary where your T would be low and your LH/FSH would be normal or high. Low(ish) FSH/LH and low(ish) T is secondary and you still look more like that to me.
2. It depends on if the way you feel levels off and stays there, leaving you in a place you can live with OR if there is a perceptible decline that doesn't seem to stop, leaving you in a place you can not live with. If your Hyp/Pit are losing their ability to produce GnRH and/or LH/FSH, you will end up in the latter condition, even if you use SERMs. No point in using SERMs again, AFAIC, unless/until you want to try another re-start.
1. I don't think you can. They don't appear to follow the pattern of primary where your T would be low and your LH/FSH would be normal or high. Low(ish) FSH/LH and low(ish) T is secondary and you still look more like that to me.
2. It depends on if the way you feel levels off and stays there, leaving you in a place you can live with OR if there is a perceptible decline that doesn't seem to stop, leaving you in a place you can not live with. If your Hyp/Pit are losing their ability to produce GnRH and/or LH/FSH, you will end up in the latter condition, even if you use SERMs. No point in using SERMs again, AFAIC, unless/until you want to try another re-start.
Bridger
New Member
Do you have older bloodwork, like 10 years or older, to compare to the last few years? The numbers you posted from the post SERM are on the low side, but not technically under range i guess. Maybe your body hasn't/doesn't produce or need more. Maybe this is just how your physiology is.
i've wondered the same about myself. the oldest tT reading i have is from about 10 years ago before any kind of hormone issues.
2004/2005 - upper 500s (dr. didn't see a need to test me, but humored me anyway)
2007 - 128 tT (secondary hypo due to Suboxone use, pre-TRT).
2014 - upper 400's (6-7 weeks post hcg/tamox restart)
My tT was never really high to begin with and it seems to have recovered close enough to those levels. I would like to see it higher of course, but its what I got. And I got tired of the TRT circus.
I think LW64 and I are saying similar things. Give your body time to adjust and wake up. You can always go back on if things don't improve enough or you feel worse again. At least that's what I told myself this last year.
i've wondered the same about myself. the oldest tT reading i have is from about 10 years ago before any kind of hormone issues.
2004/2005 - upper 500s (dr. didn't see a need to test me, but humored me anyway)
2007 - 128 tT (secondary hypo due to Suboxone use, pre-TRT).
2014 - upper 400's (6-7 weeks post hcg/tamox restart)
My tT was never really high to begin with and it seems to have recovered close enough to those levels. I would like to see it higher of course, but its what I got. And I got tired of the TRT circus.
I think LW64 and I are saying similar things. Give your body time to adjust and wake up. You can always go back on if things don't improve enough or you feel worse again. At least that's what I told myself this last year.
It all depends on what you want. Stay off for awhile to let things normalize. If you are not happy with how you feel, begin the TRT again. I kept a journal before starting and after reading older entrys with my complaints for symptoms I have not felt in awhile and really forgot how bad they were, that I have no desire to come off...as long as no complications or issues would force me to do otherwise.
No older blood work...2 ½ years ago before starting TRT I had tT of 150. No other blood work before starting TRT and finding someone else who knew what they were doing.
Toolman I hear you. I'm not happy where I'm at right now. Definitely feeling more run down and here's a random complaint...before starting TRT my hamstrings were always really tight feeling like I needed to stretch constantly, after starting TRT never, now tight again.
I guess I'll give it another month and see how I feel. If I go down anymore and I don't feel better I think I'm going back on TRT.
Toolman I hear you. I'm not happy where I'm at right now. Definitely feeling more run down and here's a random complaint...before starting TRT my hamstrings were always really tight feeling like I needed to stretch constantly, after starting TRT never, now tight again.
I guess I'll give it another month and see how I feel. If I go down anymore and I don't feel better I think I'm going back on TRT.
Can't go wrong that way. All I would recommend is stick with T only and don't throw other things in to complicate the mix.
Back up..
WHAT ARE YOU CURRENT SYMPTOMS...?
Forget serum counts for a minute...
Now wonder has your prostate receptor profile changed in some way to accomodate syn T.?
Remember the prostate pretty much regulates wood and Spunk-load volume.
Aside from WHAT regulates IT..
Just thinking aloud...
WHAT ARE YOU CURRENT SYMPTOMS...?
Forget serum counts for a minute...
Now wonder has your prostate receptor profile changed in some way to accomodate syn T.?
Remember the prostate pretty much regulates wood and Spunk-load volume.
Aside from WHAT regulates IT..
Just thinking aloud...
Like I said, you sometimes forget how you felt when enough time passes. Sounds like you are a T therapy lifer. This is not a bad thing as I recall you doing well on T. How are the weight and workout issues off?
What are you waiting for exactly
If you want to boost that 209 level this is what i would recommend:
Take 10,000ius vitamin d3 per day with fat soluble meal
Take Horny Goat Weed (with high icariin content)
Take Longjack (also known as Tongkat ali)
Those three things should boost you into a low normal level.
Speaking from experience here and what im doing right now as i come off T.
@toolman - I completely agree with this. After 8 or so years and now mid forties. Taketh away and my age is found. TITS ON A BOAR HOG I BECOME...
@Tyler81 - I disagree with the Vit D. I disagree with all the Vit D talk BS. This should be naturally produced on skin else cholesterol supersaturates in blood (or at least goes to wrong places) is my personal opinion. Race/genetics dependent. To ADD ViT D, is to force less cholesterol action on the skin, and will be the coming "Super-D Myocardial Infarction Event" in progress. Hell, it might even worsen SKIN CANCER RATES...! Worse lie since Vit E.... IMHSuspicion....
Catch some RAYS BABY... Drink some wine and eat cheese too...!
@Tyler81 - I disagree with the Vit D. I disagree with all the Vit D talk BS. This should be naturally produced on skin else cholesterol supersaturates in blood (or at least goes to wrong places) is my personal opinion. Race/genetics dependent. To ADD ViT D, is to force less cholesterol action on the skin, and will be the coming "Super-D Myocardial Infarction Event" in progress. Hell, it might even worsen SKIN CANCER RATES...! Worse lie since Vit E.... IMHSuspicion....
Catch some RAYS BABY... Drink some wine and eat cheese too...!
