My liver enzymes are slightly elevated. Are supplements for liver support a waste of money?

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Yes, another thread about liver health. I've created this thread because from what I'm reading here throughout the forums there are a lot of conflicting opinions on whether or not over the counter supplements work to preserve liver health. I got some lab work done and my liver enzymes are elevated but from what I've read it's not terrible. The numbers I am looking at are for AST (SGOT) = 51 IU/L. Normal rage is 0-40. And my ALT (SGBT) is 64 IU/L. Normal range for ALT (SGBT) is 0-44.

From my research it looks like you can still have a range two to three times higher than the normal ranges I posted above which would still be considered "mildly" elevated. So in other words, I don't think I'm in harm's way with my current numbers. I'm currently on 200mg of testosterone and 300mg of trenbolone enanthate weekly. I've been on for three months and will wrap up by the end of October for a total of a sixteen week cycle. I'm pretty sure it's the addition of trenbolone that elevated my numbers since they were within normal ranges in the past.

Can anyone share their honest anecdotal experiences with specific supplements that they feel/felt improved their liver health? I'm really liking the results from my cycle and once I take a few months off I was planning on increasing my total gear for a future cycle. Of course, only if my body can handle it all without issues.

Thanks.

 

[ItsDaBoii]

Did you workout the day before bloodwork?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Those numbers aren’t problematic. This is straight from my doctor. Keep water up. Try some NAC or Silymarin. You’re good. As mentioned above, he’s training can elevate liver enzymes easily that high.

 

[steckdose0]

TUDCA as a repair, milk thistle as a preventative.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Did you workout the day before bloodwork?

Definitely. I've being doing the late John Meadow's Project Colossus workout which is six days a week in the gym. Prior to that I was working out only five days a week. The hypertrophy days on this program give me some of the most amazing pumps! What was interesting was that my creatinine levels fell back down to normal ranges this time around. It's now 1.20 but the last reading was 1.31. The normal range for creatinine is 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dL. And also, my eGFR improved and went from 63 back in July to 70 as of last Friday. Prior to it being 63 I could see a downward trend that got me a bit concerned. Good to know it started to go back up. The higher the number the better for eGFR.

I don't know what I've done to improve my eGFR other than for the month of September I've been back to doing cardio four to five days a week for at least 35 to sometimes 45 minutes at a time. But glad to know as an old dog, I can handle some gear at 50 years old. I plan to keep doing cardio from now on without fail. I'm also a bit surprised since my blood pressure can get up to 160/90 the next day or two after I inject my trenbolone. I inject twice a week and can see my blood pressure go down until I do my next shot. I'm now up to 20mg of Lisinopril daily and but plan to switch over to Telmisartan once my order from All Day Chemists finally arrives. Sorry for going off topic, but other than some slight unfavorable changes to my LDL and HDL, my mildly elevated liver enzymes and blood pressure I'm working on to control I am really glad how well I'm tolerating my first cycle after not having done gear since my mid thirties.

Also, I don't drink alcohol any alcohol nor do I smoke so that helps, too.

 

[MANinTHEWALL]

Definitely. I've being doing the late John Meadow's Project Colossus workout which is six days a week in the gym. Prior to that I was working out only five days a week. The hypertrophy days on this program give me some of the most amazing pumps! What was interesting was that my creatinine levels fell back down to normal ranges this time around. It's now 1.20 but the last reading was 1.31. The normal range for creatinine is 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dL. And also, my eGFR improved and went from 63 back in July to 70 as of last Friday. Prior to it being 63 I could see a downward trend that got me a bit concerned. Good to know it started to go back up. The higher the number the better for eGFR.

I don't know what I've done to improve my eGFR other than for the month of September I've been back to doing cardio four to five days a week for at least 35 to sometimes 45 minutes at a time. But glad to know as an old dog, I can handle some gear at 50 years old. I plan to keep doing cardio from now on without fail. I'm also a bit surprised since my blood pressure can get up to 160/90 the next day or two after I inject my trenbolone. I inject twice a week and can see my blood pressure go down until I do my next shot. I'm now up to 20mg of Lisinopril daily and but plan to switch over to Telmisartan once my order from All Day Chemists finally arrives. Sorry for going off topic, but other than some slight unfavorable changes to my LDL and HDL, my mildly elevated liver enzymes and blood pressure I'm working on to control I am really glad how well I'm tolerating my first cycle after not having done gear since my mid thirties.

Also, I don't drink alcohol any alcohol nor do I smoke so that helps, too.

John thought he could handle it also.

 

[grey]

The numbers I am looking at are for AST (SGOT) = 51 IU/L. Normal rage is 0-40. And my ALT (SGBT) is 64 IU/L.

While these are enzymes which are made in some quantity by your liver they are not "liver enzymes" in the sense that the measured blood levels of said enzymes are being produced by your liver only.

These 2 enzymes are ALWAYS elevated in anyone who is training at even moderate intensity levels.

Seeing elevated AST and ALT in someone who ISN'T training (this is the subject the bloody test is supposed to be administered to) is something to be investigated but your levels are literally of no concern whatsoever.

It is the medical equivalent of taking someone's pulse mid-marathon and classifying it as "HIGH" compared to the resting norm of humanity sitting on a sofa.

 

[Demondosage]

If those were my labs those liver #'s would be amazing!!

 

[PeterBond]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, both AST and ALT can increase as a result of exercise without being indicative of liver damage. As such it's pretty difficult to say whether it's the result of liver damage. If you don't have a history of liver disease, don't show clinical signs of liver damage, and you aren't taking other drugs besides what you're writing there, it's most likely the result of exercise.

If you'd like some further reading: The Hepatotoxicity of Anabolic Steroids - MESO-Rx

A final remark I’d like to make in this section, is the interpretation of ASAT and ALAT values in the context of bodybuilders. While these enzymes are present in high concentrations in the liver, they’re also present in other tissues, such as muscle tissue. Both can increase as a result of muscular exercise too [16]. A nice addition, thus, would be the measurement of GGT. GGT can be found in the membranes of cells from various organs, including the kidney, pancreas, and of course the liver. In the liver, it’s found primarily in areas that are rich in biliary epithelial cells [17]. As such, GGT is increased in most diseases affecting the liver, gallbladder and bile ducts. An increase in GGT is a sensitive measure of cholestatic liver disease [18]. It can be viewed as a marker of cholestasis and obstruction of the bile ducts. However, again, it can also be increased by causes that are unrelated to the liver (as well as noncholestatic liver disease). Perhaps to get an even better view of liver damage one might incorporate a measurement of ALP too. The most pronounced elevations of ALP are seen in diseases associated with cholestasis, but smaller increases can be seen in all types of liver disorders [17]. The collective increase of ASAT, ALAT, GGT and ALP with concurrent anabolic steroid use should be interpreted as liver damage, and with a word of caution as obstruction of the bile ducts. (Measurement of bilirubin can provide insight in this.)

 

[lilhawk]

John thought he could handle it also.

His death had nothing to do with PED's, kidneys, or liver. Your statement is idiotic at best.

 

[MANinTHEWALL]

His death had nothing to do with PED's, kidneys, or liver. Your statement is idiotic at best.

Lets see, he had blood clotting problems. One of the known side effects of PED's is thickening of the blood. Daaaaa. Sure, denial, denial.

 

[Iamnatty]

Lets see, he had blood clotting problems. One of the known side effects of PED's is thickening of the blood. Daaaaa. Sure, denial, denial.

He had a blood clotting disorder you dumbass. Both his parents died from health issues before they were 50. He had a genetic predisposition

 

[MANinTHEWALL]

He had a blood clotting disorder you dumbass. Both his parents died from health issues before they were 50. He had a genetic predisposition

Proof?

So... lets see, even if he did have blood clotting disorder, I think it's common sense that PED's would exasperate said condition!

Just because his parents died from health issues, does not mean that has anything to do with his clotting.

Try some critical thinking.

 

[Monkipalo]

So... lets see, even if he did have blood clotting disorder, I think it's common sense that PED's would exasperate said condition!

He was on 100mg of test, blood thinners and cholesterol medicine, at least after his heart attack last year

 

[Canknucklehead]

I use milk thistle and liv 52

 

[hometeam]

So, the specific type of damage oral AAS cause to the liver is called cholestasis. Chole = bile, and stasis = stops flowing. Since TUDCA literally is conjugated bile salt that's meant to get bile flowing that's your best bet for protection. Milk thistle also stimulates bile secretion.

 

[Bumpygooch]

Proof?

So... lets see, even if he did have blood clotting disorder, I think it's common sense that PED's would exasperate said condition!

Just because his parents died from health issues, does not mean that has anything to do with his clotting.

Try some critical thinking.

Exacerbate*

 

[MANinTHEWALL]

Exacerbate*

Exasperate is today most commonly used as a synonym of annoy, but for several hundred years it also had the meanings “to make more grievous” and “to make harsh or harsher.” Exacerbate is now the more common choice of these two words when one seeks to indicate that something is becoming increasingly bitter, violent,

 

[Bumpygooch]

Exasperate is today most commonly used as a synonym of annoy, but for several hundred years it also had the meanings “to make more grievous” and “to make harsh or harsher.” Exacerbate is now the more common choice of these two words when one seeks to indicate that something is becoming increasingly bitter, violent,

In the context in which you used it, exacerbate is correct

 

[RomanMVP]

Did you workout the day before bloodwork?

This....