Myth Buster - Prolactin Tren/Deca

[Sworder]

Myth: You need to take caber if you are running Deca/Tren because it will give you bitch tits.

Common forum lore states you need to run caber with tren/deca. It has been my personal experience that prolactin and Tren/Deca have 0 correlation. This has been found in literature as well.

If there is a correlation, it is between estrogen and prolactin. Which leads to the second myth buster in this thread.

Prolactin induced gyno is not possible physiologically. Prolactin alone create glandular tissue. If you have a high estrogen, it is the culprit for said "gyno" not prolactin.

In conclusion: Do not spend your money on caber, it serves no purpose. Well, caber is used to treat acromegaly.

Acromegaly is a condition where your brain produces too much IGF-1/hGH. So this medication will lower IGF-1/hGH, but what importance could that be to us weight lifters?

Sorry if this post seems arrogant, just busting a myth.

 

[viking23]

Interesting info sworder

 

[Sworder]

Yes, it is true. But I was actually just thinking. It would be cool if at Meso we would actually try to go further and be more proactive to the BB community and keep lab work. Maybe for my next run I will keep a detailed log of dosages and get labs to confirm this. That way it can be referred to as a truth, in my case at least. Word of mouth is easily disposed of such as my first initial post, but if I would include bloods it would strengthen it and provide substantial evidence to build this fact upon.

Honestly it's a "providing evidence for something that doesn't happen" phenomena, kind of like disproving God, Bigfoot or Aliens.

 

[foreveryoung]

well, I went for blood test yesterday and prolactin is one of the hormones tested, will see when I get the results, as my libido has not been good lately and in the past I have seen some big improvement in libido when running caber

I am really curious as to my prolactin levels, and wish I had tested it sooner and more often

 

[Sworder]

Foreveryoung, what has been your Testosterone dosage and Trenbolone dose as well as AI dose? As stated the Estrogenrolactin is strongly correlated and if you keep e2 low you can max the tren out.

 

[Oregongearhead]

I think I'll keep prami around just in case -

 

[Sworder]

Sure, use "as needed" but keep e2 under control and you will be fine. Prami is rough though, caber pretty mild in that sense.

Keep in mind how much hGH costs, and this drug will decrease natural production. In acromegaly patients, I would think it would be safe to extrapolate this information.

Cabergoline in the treatment of acromegaly: a study in 64 patients.
Cabergoline in the treatment of acro... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI
Abstract
Cabergoline is a new, long acting, dopamine agonist that is more effective and better tolerated than bromocriptine in patients with hyperprolactinemia. Because dopamine agonists still have a place in the medical management of acromegaly, cabergoline might be a useful treatment. We, therefore, evaluated the effect of long term administration of cabergoline in a large group of unselected acromegalic patients. Sixty-four patients were included in a multicenter, prospective, open labeled study. A subgroup of 16 patients had GH-/PRL-cosecreting pituitary adenomas. Cabergoline was started at a dose of 1.0 mg/week and was gradually increased until normalization of plasma insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, occurrence of unacceptable side-effects, or a maximal weekly dose of 3.5 mg (7.0 mg in 1 case) was reached. Treatment with cabergoline suppressed plasma IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L in 39% of cases and between 300-450 micrograms/L in another 28%. With pretreatment plasma IGF-I concentrations less than 750 micrograms/L, a suppression of IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L was obtained in 53% of cases, and a suppression between 300-450 micrograms/L was obtained in another 32%. By contrast, with pretreatment plasma IGF-I concentrations above 750 micrograms/L, only 17% of cases showed a suppression of IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L, and there was IGF-I suppression between 300-450 micrograms/L in another 21%. In GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenomas, 50% of cases suppressed plasma IGF-I levels below 300 micrograms/L, and another 31% did so between 300-450 micrograms/L, in contrast to only 35% and 27%, respectively in GH-secreting adenomas. Similar results were obtained concerning the secretion of GH. Tumor shrinkage was demonstrated in 13 of 21 patients, with a mass reduction by more than half in 5 GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenomas. Except for slight gastrointestinal discomfort and orthostatic hypotension in a few patients at the beginning of therapy, cabergoline treatment was well tolerated. Only 2 patients stopped medication because of nausea. The weekly dose of cabergoline ranged between 1.0-1.75 mg. A further increase in the dose was only effective in 1 GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenoma. The results of this study suggest that cabergoline is an effective, well tolerated therapy that should be considered in the management of acromegaly, especially if the pituitary adenoma cosecretes GH and PRL or if pretreatment plasma IGF-I levels are below 750 micrograms/L.

 

[Candyskull]

Myth: You need to take caber if you are running Deca/Tren because it will give you bitch tits.

Common forum lore states you need to run caber with tren/deca. It has been my personal experience that prolactin and Tren/Deca have 0 correlation. This has been found in literature as well.

If there is a correlation, it is between estrogen and prolactin. Which leads to the second myth buster in this thread.

Prolactin induced gyno is not possible physiologically. Prolactin alone create glandular tissue. If you have a high estrogen, it is the culprit for said "gyno" not prolactin.

In conclusion: Do not spend your money on caber, it serves no purpose. Well, caber is used to treat acromegaly.

Acromegaly is a condition where your brain produces too much IGF-1/hGH. So this medication will lower IGF-1/hGH, but what importance could that be to us weight lifters?

Sorry if this post seems arrogant, just busting a myth.

Bill Roberts states as much in his profile of Tren on these very pages. I have to wonder how this particular misinformation got started though.

 

[foreveryoung]

Sure, use "as needed" but keep e2 under control and you will be fine. Prami is rough though, caber pretty mild in that sense.

Keep in mind how much hGH costs, and this drug will decrease natural production. In acromegaly patients, I would think it would be safe to extrapolate this information.

Cabergoline in the treatment of acromegaly: a study in 64 patients.
Cabergoline in the treatment of acro... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI
Abstract
Cabergoline is a new, long acting, dopamine agonist that is more effective and better tolerated than bromocriptine in patients with hyperprolactinemia. Because dopamine agonists still have a place in the medical management of acromegaly, cabergoline might be a useful treatment. We, therefore, evaluated the effect of long term administration of cabergoline in a large group of unselected acromegalic patients. Sixty-four patients were included in a multicenter, prospective, open labeled study. A subgroup of 16 patients had GH-/PRL-cosecreting pituitary adenomas. Cabergoline was started at a dose of 1.0 mg/week and was gradually increased until normalization of plasma insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, occurrence of unacceptable side-effects, or a maximal weekly dose of 3.5 mg (7.0 mg in 1 case) was reached. Treatment with cabergoline suppressed plasma IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L in 39% of cases and between 300-450 micrograms/L in another 28%. With pretreatment plasma IGF-I concentrations less than 750 micrograms/L, a suppression of IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L was obtained in 53% of cases, and a suppression between 300-450 micrograms/L was obtained in another 32%. By contrast, with pretreatment plasma IGF-I concentrations above 750 micrograms/L, only 17% of cases showed a suppression of IGF-I below 300 micrograms/L, and there was IGF-I suppression between 300-450 micrograms/L in another 21%. In GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenomas, 50% of cases suppressed plasma IGF-I levels below 300 micrograms/L, and another 31% did so between 300-450 micrograms/L, in contrast to only 35% and 27%, respectively in GH-secreting adenomas. Similar results were obtained concerning the secretion of GH. Tumor shrinkage was demonstrated in 13 of 21 patients, with a mass reduction by more than half in 5 GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenomas. Except for slight gastrointestinal discomfort and orthostatic hypotension in a few patients at the beginning of therapy, cabergoline treatment was well tolerated. Only 2 patients stopped medication because of nausea. The weekly dose of cabergoline ranged between 1.0-1.75 mg. A further increase in the dose was only effective in 1 GH-/PRL-cosecreting adenoma. The results of this study suggest that cabergoline is an effective, well tolerated therapy that should be considered in the management of acromegaly, especially if the pituitary adenoma cosecretes GH and PRL or if pretreatment plasma IGF-I levels are below 750 micrograms/L.

that is a fairly high dose ofd caber

 

[Sworder]

I put that part in bold because it is insane how similar the dose is (low range) to what you would use in a cycle. However, since they are capped at 0.5mg and have a HL of 3-4 days. I would say that a person on a cycle would use 0.5mg-1mg/week.

Please explain your comment!

 

[skywalk]

I too have never understood the fear or hype surrounding the mythical prolactin-induced gyno from tren.

having run tren A and E at doses ranging from 200-400mg per week, I can attest to the fact that I never got gyno from tren. those of you who know me will know i am extremely gyno prone, and 20mg dbol will set it off, even when i'm on 2.5mg femara EOD.

Lastly, i ran blood work during one of my last tren cycles, and my prolactin was completely fine. i have never used caber or the like, and i will continue to save my money by not taking it even when on tren.

so, don't worry about prolactin. instead, worry about estrogen. I have a permanent lump under my left nip as a result of taking dbol with only 0.25mg of adex ED.

 

[ripped103]

You said prolactin only creates glandular tissue.
What do you think those lumps under the nipple are the glandular tissue growing.
I had both glands removed from my nipples so I can never get gyno again,but even if you don't get gyno issues,doesn't mean your prolactin levels aren't high.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

I mostly agree. However the use of a dopamine agonist comes into play moreso with unpleasant sexual sides. It will cause them, even in the abscence of elevated estrogen. Thats why I have prami on hand with all my 19 nor cycles. As far as gyno-not gonna happen in the absence of elevated estrogen or a highly out of wack androgen/estrogen ratio ( the latter mentioned is unusual in healthy males even when cycling)
Also of note I have recently been reading some info re the impact of low dopamine levels and fat gain. Given dopamines inverse relationship with prolactin there MAY, not is , but may be another potentially prudent reason to keep prl in check. Whether or not this is an issue while taking anabolics I do not know but good to foster debate.

 

[skywalk]

You said prolactin only creates glandular tissue.
What do you think those lumps under the nipple are the glandular tissue growing.
I had both glands removed from my nipples so I can never get gyno again,but even if you don't get gyno issues,doesn't mean your prolactin levels aren't high.

1) bloodwork showed prolactin levels to be same as baseline
2) I had no gyno UNLESS i took dbol. when I stopped dbol, it went away...while still on tren all that time. and if that was not enough, I RESUMED dbol after gyno went away, and the damn filthy bugger came back! no more dbol for me.

edit: how long was your surgery? how much and what was it like? I might have to do it too.

 

[foreveryoung]

well, I went for blood test yesterday and prolactin is one of the hormones tested, will see when I get the results, as my libido has not been good lately and in the past I have seen some big improvement in libido when running caber

I am really curious as to my prolactin levels, and wish I had tested it sooner and more often

ok, got my results and prolactin was well within normal, so maybe sworder is right, it had been a few days since I'd taken any tren but I was on tren for a year up til now, so that is interesting...... I had noted that cabergoline did improve things for me so I thought it was due to high prolactin, but maybe prolactin had nothing to do with it actually and the caber just improved libido through some other mechanism

my prolactin result was 5.1 ug/l on a test range of normal being <15

 

[foreveryoung]

hmm, dug up this thread after I just did .5mg of caber today, was having no luck with ai a short while ago so didn't want to go that route again but still running into some issues, and then today got some sensitive nipple issues (and my weekly test dose is only 175mg), so I panicked a bit and took the good dose of caber

will see what happens

 

[foreveryoung]

well, definite increase in morning wood and libido already just overnight, hope this continues

one could theorize on mode of action, maybe nothing to do with prolactin, but do far I am definitely feeling something positive

 

[Trw008]

So does this mean you should not run caber if you take gh as it could lower it ??

 

[pumpingiron22]

I have heard that high dosages of b6 fight prolactin pretty well. So what would be the best for prolactin build up?

 

[boxcar]

Well, doesn't caber or prami make you not get soft after bustin a nut?

fuck, i'd buy that shit just for that. So for my record is 3 busts in 7 mins...no doubt.