Nebido - Test Undecanoate 1000mg

[Structure]

I did not say shutdown, I said suppression. Regardless, it is semantics. The endogenous T production will be decreased. And this is in someone with proven AIS, far more severe than you or sade (should he have it checked). You are looking the FOOL. Keep It Up.

Yet Sade DID say shut down, and you called it trash and laughed at him:

It won't shut me down like other men because of my mutant androgen receptor. If I'm already producing around 800 ng/dl naturally then taking something like Testim will provide me with an extra 600 ng/dl and this will be added on the 800 I'm already producing so my levels will be around 1400 ng/dl on the Testim or Nebido.

You are 100% WRONG!!! Where did you hear such trash? LMAO

You were wrong! Enough said!

Unless you're going to attempt some very intricate argumentative maneuvering, I take it then that you've decided that Sade's initial comment is no longer making you laugh your ass off. That was my point here; Sade's comment was valid, and you were just being your typical moronic self.

I hope someday you learn that your refusal to admit it when you make a mistake only serves to lower the value of your contributions here in the forum.

You were wrong in the Kryptocur thread, and you are wrong now. In both places, you've tried to squirm out of it, but it would have been much easier in both places to just admit it.

In the hopes of undoing whatever confusion you may have caused by your posts, I'll restate the facts regarding androgen insensitivity:

1. The mutant AR does not work as well, and thus it takes higher levels of T to get it to work effectively.
2. There are three categories with progressively more insensitivity to androgens: MAIS, PAIS, and CAIS.
3. In the most extreme form, CAIS, no amount of androgen will produce a response because the androgen receptor is completely ineffective. These individuals develop as women.
4. Some individuals with PAIS are too insensive to androgens to be helped by exogenous T. However, there are many different kinds of PAIS, and many individuals do respond well to T. The paper discussed in this thread is one such case.
5. Men with MAIS are the least insensitive to androgens. They are born phenotypically normal. There are several documented cases where T has reversed the symptoms of MAIS, subtle as these symptoms are.
6. For those that still have some sensitivity to androgens (e.g. men with MAIS, and some men with PAIS), exogenous T will work together with whatever T their bodies still produce, and will thus increase overall androgenic effects. Sade is right that exogenous T will work together with whatever T his body will be producing; he will not stop producing T unless his LH drops below normal.

It's also worth mentioning that it is well known that LH stimulates the testes to produce T. That is why the guy in this paper is not shut down; in fact, his LH is still pretty high. However, any ordinary man would be completely shut down (LH = 0) if they took 250 mg / week of T. This is a direct reflection of the inefficient androgen receptor: it does not suppress in the same way that ordinary men do; it takes more T to achieve a similar suppression.

This is why I have previously stated that the only way to know how much T will be too much for Sade is by trying out various doses; the amount that will shut down a normal man will not necessarily shut down someone with MAIS. This is particularly true when LH is very elevated.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Structure: How is that Kryptocur Krap working out? https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134305389

I am providing the link for others so inclined to read your POS. And the thread is very clear that I do NOT agree with your BS. The same goes for this thread. [No matter how many times you BOLD, BULLET, and LARGE font, the BS is the same. This seems to be a common form of BS posting on your part. Do you really think this helps others believe you.]

BTW: How is that Testim TRT going? Having alot of problems from the point AR mutation. What were those again! LMAO [And even the most newbie recognizes that the HPTA will be suppressed with the exogenous T. But, you insist on NO suppression! This is FUN.]

GLTY

EOM

 

[Structure]

Structure: How is that Kryptocur Krap working out? https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134305389

I am providing the link for others so inclined to read your POS. And the thread is very clear that I do NOT agree with your BS. The same goes for this thread. [No matter how many times you BOLD, BULLET, and LARGE font, the BS is the same. This seems to be a common form of BS posting on your part. Do you really think this helps others believe you.]

BTW: How is that Testim TRT going? Having alot of problems from the point AR mutation. What were those again! LMAO [And even the most newbie recognizes that the HPTA will be suppressed with the exogenous T. But, you insist on NO suppression! This is FUN.]

GLTY

EOM

Again, WOW. At no point will you recognize that you've made a mistake! UNBELIEVABLE!

Go Scally!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Again, WOW. At no point will you recognize that you've made a mistake! UNBELIEVABLE!

Go Scally!

What, no BULLETS?

This will be an interesting experience. I look forward to your posts.

 

[Structure]

What, no BULLETS?

This will be an interesting experience. I look forward to your posts.

• GO SCALLY THE INFALLIBLE!!!

[)][)][)]

 

[GirlyMan]

It won't shut me down like other men because of my mutant androgen receptor. If I'm already producing around 800 ng/dl naturally then taking something like Testim will provide me with an extra 600 ng/dl and this will be added on the 800 I'm already producing so my levels will be around 1400 ng/dl on the Testim or Nebido.

My 48 yo brother is a freak of nature like you. He's suffered from hereditary angioedema since he was 4. NIH had him on every sort of androgen you can think of (Yes Virginia, Winstrol does have a legitimate medical use, and no they can't explain why he's not dead yet. ) He doesn't shut down. Whether it's nature (he's got the mutation you describe), or nurture (he might have developed a tolerance from being up with the shit for so long), is completely irrelevant and moot to him at this point.

I want Testim because it'll provide more stable blood levels of T.... I want my levels to be stable.

I'm starting to think that a low-dose of a long-acting ester to keep my baseline from going too low coupled with a short-acting daily dose of a topical to give me variation is what I want.

 

[CubbieBlue]

My 48 yo brother is a freak of nature like you. He's suffered from hereditary angioedema since he was 4. NIH had him on every sort of androgen you can think of (Yes Virginia, Winstrol does have a legitimate medical use, and no they can't explain why he's not dead yet. ) He doesn't shut down. Whether it's nature (he's got the mutation you describe), or nurture (he might have developed a tolerance from being up with the shit for so long), is completely irrelevant and moot to him at this point.



I'm starting to think that a low-dose of a long-acting ester to keep my baseline from going too low coupled with a short-acting daily dose of a topical to give me variation is what I want.

GM, from everything I've seen it looks like you are basically doing that already, as long as you are applying on a daily basis and your dosage is high enough. For a lot of men on gels it seems their baseline never gets below 300-400 and their peaks can be anywhere from 500-1200. It seems to create a "reservoir" so to speak.

 

[GirlyMan]

GM, from everything I've seen it looks like you are basically doing that already, as long as you are applying on a daily basis and your dosage is high enough. For a lot of men on gels it seems their baseline never gets below 300-400 and their peaks can be anywhere from 500-1200. It seems to create a "reservoir" so to speak.

Nope, not for me. 48 hours after application I'm at ~180 total T ng/dl. Don't feel no different unless I stay there for a bit (the first thing to go will be the morning woodies, the libido's next, takes about a week or so).

 

[CubbieBlue]

Nope, not for me. 48 hours after application I'm at ~180 total T ng/dl. Don't feel no different unless I stay there for a bit (the first thing to go will be the morning woodies, the libido's next, takes at least a week or so).

Yeah, 48 hours after application. What about 24 hours after application? You are probably around 300-400 then...with a considerable bump when you apply. As long as you apply every day, why does it matter where you are at 48 hours after application?

 

[GirlyMan]

What about 24 hours after application? You are probably around 300-400 then...with a considerable bump when you apply.

475 ng/dl. Bulldog over at ATM puts that in the 600+ bump range, I think that's a good guesstimate.

As long as you apply every day, why does it matter where you are at 48 hours after application?

Umm ... Because I am curious to see what happens if I dick with my testosterone? If you haven't fully appreciated the joys of embroidery on your own then I'm not gonna be able to sway you.

 

[1erCru]

So whats the verdict? In a case of MAIS where LH is still present after testosterone replacement is administered as treatment, is the body still producing its own testosterone in addition to the TRT or does the TRT magically supress / replace the bodies supply while LH is still pulsing?

 

[sade]

The proof will be in the results. I feel for sade since this TRT will be ineffective. And from the letter it is clear the physician feels the same.

EOM

When I went to see him, he said to me that the only symptom which I have associated with MAIS is erectile dysfunction. The mood disorders have no connection. Maybe depression but not anxiety disorders. He asked me what symptom was the most distressing. I said "I just want my erections back" and this is when he said to me that I would have to go back on the testosterone. He said erectile dysfunction is a very common symptom of MAIS. I don't care about the depression, anxiety. I just want my sex life back. Yes I went on Test Cyp injections for four weeks but my estrogen and progesterone went through the roof. I wasn't even getting morning wood which I am now but only partially. I didn't even check what my T level and LH level was on Test C.

I went to see Dr Crisler last year and he sai that the Test C raised my progesterone. It was 12.0 on a range of 1.2 - 3.8. My E2 was 70 but I never tested my T and LH levels which I should have done.

 

[sade]

Fuck this man. If that nurse is going to inject Sustanon 250 mg into my ass every third week then I'm going to buy my own shit too and take it after every 10 days. 250mg Sust 250 injection every 10 days. That's how it's going to be. I will bounce back from this. I'm 100% confident I will.

 

[Structure]

So whats the verdict? In a case of MAIS where LH is still present after testosterone replacement is administered as treatment, is the body still producing its own testosterone in addition to the TRT or does the TRT magically supress / replace the bodies supply while LH is still pulsing?

Think of it this way: your testes don't have the option to ignore the LH. If the LH is getting to them, they're going to produce T. MAIS doesn't change the way that the body responds to LH, it just changes the body's ability to use androgens.

The other way to look at this is to think about what it means when you have very high LH. Specifically, having consistently high LH means that your body is telling your testes that they are NOT keeping up with the body's demand for T. LH drops back down to normal when the body is satisfied with the amount of T that it is getting.

Men with the mild form of AIS (and some men with the partial form of AIS) that have an elevated LH are receiving a clear message from their bodies that they need additional T.

As far as the case report that I refer to earlier goes, you might wonder how it is possible that this guy could be getting 250 mg / week shots of T, and yet he still doesn't shut down. Here's a clearer explanation of what is going on there:

This guy's LH starts off over at 20, which is hugely elevated. Thus, his body is saying that his testes are NOT producing enough T to satisfy its demand. He starts getting 250 mg injections.

His body senses the additional T, and his LH decreases. Here's the critical question: just because it senses the additional T, does that mean that his body is now satisfied with the amount of T present? The answer is simple, look at the LH. It is still very elevated at LH = 9, so the answer is NO, his body is not yet satisfied with the levels of T. This is a direct consequence of his cells' insensitivity to androgens. However, his body is not completely insensitive to androgens; the fact that it was able to recognize the additional T is reflected in the fact that his LH went down from 21 to 9.

The last piece of this puzzle is solved by looking at what is happening in the testes. The critical question here is, how do the testes react to an LH of 9 vs. an LH of 21? They are both very elevated values for LH, and thus in both cases, the demand for T is very large. However, the testes can only be driven so hard before no additional result is seen. This is why in tests where large doses of HCG are administered vs. the administration of super-large doses of HCG, the amount of T produced is not significantly different.. The testes can only do so much; an LH of 9 is still a high demand on the testes, and they are still going to try to produce a large amount of T.

In the end, this guy finds himself in a peculiar physiological state: he's receiving 250 mg / week of T, but his body is still placing a huge demand on his balls to produce T. Thus, they are still producing T at near maximal output, which (for this guy) wasn't that much to begin with --- when LH was up to 21, his T was only at 460. When he gets his blood work, the T assays don't distinguish between which portion of T was from the testes, and which portion was from the injection, it just measures the total T.

It's worth mentioning that this bizarre physiology is unique to cases of androgen insensitivity.

I hope that answers your question.