DeezNutz
New Member
^ yeah haha. I use 25-27g. 22g would be unnecessarily painful and actually will cause scar tissue build up over time. I can barely feel the 27g needles.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Need advice from the more experienced
- Thread starter RThoads
- Start date
cool, I will have a look. thanks
yeah, either he is that out of touch or (what I suspect) he is trying to make it suck because he wants me to go the gel route.
No way I will go with a 22g. Doc said it had to be that because smaller will not work to draw up the oil... I couldn't tell him why I disagree or where my is from so I had to just act ignorant and like I was learning something from him.
I ordered a box of 25g 1" from allegro and it will be here tomorrow. Maybe I should have went with 27g but from what I read many use the 25g. Next time I will try 27g if the 25 sucks.
A-a-Ron
New Member
Save those 22's to draw with.
DeezNutz
New Member
Yeah 22g is good to draw. I use 25g x 1" for my quads and glutes and 27g x 0.5" for delts.
HuckingFuge
New Member
I use 22g 1.5" to draw and inject. hell I started out using 18g 2" for like my first 5 cycles.
DeezNutz
New Member
Yeah, when I first started TRT I used to get my injections in the doctors office. They used the 18g to draw and inject. Shit was terrible. It's a solid strategy on their part to get patients to switch to gels 
HuckingFuge
New Member
mine was redi-ject, was already in the syringe, just needed to inject 
LOL! I've accidently used 18g to pin before, by not switching after drawing, dude it feels like a pencil! You're something else...!mine was redi-ject, was already in the syringe, just needed to inject
Are those the 2 packs? I think I've seen them in TJ before!mine was redi-ject, was already in the syringe, just needed to inject
hotdog23
New Member
@RThoads idk if someone already mentioned it but hcg can maintain close to full fertility for 12-18 months after you start trt. Start hcg now tho.
After that time period hmg 3x a week for 90 days will bring back full fertility and can then again be maintained for 12-18 months with hcg. So don't worry there are options
After that time period hmg 3x a week for 90 days will bring back full fertility and can then again be maintained for 12-18 months with hcg. So don't worry there are options
I know about hcg from reading up on cycles and logs etc but I only recently learned of using it while on; back when I was around guys that cycled they only ever used tamox for gyno on cycle, and clomid or tamox for PCT. But I don't know anything about hmg. I just learned all about AIs vs SERMs, and HCG--I will pick up some arimidex and hcg to have on hand asap. I will have to look it up and get up to speed about it.
@hotdog23 I will read up more myself to get informed, but let me know if I got it right what you are saying:
HCG while on the TRT dose for 12-18 months starting asap.
Then come off HCG completely.
immediately go on HMG for 90 days.
then immediately go back to HCG for another 12-18 month run?
Word to the wise on HCG: Insurance will usually only cover it if you're actively trying to conceive while on TRT. It's rather expensive paying out of pocket, especially given pharms generally only sell 5kiu at the smallest.
Also, a fair number of guys have trouble with E2 on HCG. I'd definitely suggest getting yourself stable on the injections before you think about adding HCG.
Personally, my nuts haven't really shrunk too much on TRT. Maybe 20% smaller. I also had a vasectomy years ago, so I don't give a crap about fertility. I might make sense for you to consult with a urologist for advice on that.
As far as needles go, I use 22g to draw, and 25g to inject. I always warm my vial by placing it in a glass of warm water while I get the rest of my supplies together. At least for me, 25g are usually close to painless doing quad injections, sometimes a slight sting. I started out using 22g, but you can DEFINITELY feel those doing quad injections, lol. It was tough to relax the muscle knowing that the pain was coming.
Also, a fair number of guys have trouble with E2 on HCG. I'd definitely suggest getting yourself stable on the injections before you think about adding HCG.
Personally, my nuts haven't really shrunk too much on TRT. Maybe 20% smaller. I also had a vasectomy years ago, so I don't give a crap about fertility. I might make sense for you to consult with a urologist for advice on that.
As far as needles go, I use 22g to draw, and 25g to inject. I always warm my vial by placing it in a glass of warm water while I get the rest of my supplies together. At least for me, 25g are usually close to painless doing quad injections, sometimes a slight sting. I started out using 22g, but you can DEFINITELY feel those doing quad injections, lol. It was tough to relax the muscle knowing that the pain was coming.
hotdog23
New Member
Hcg will maintain intratesticular test neccesary for sperm production, and it can maintain production on it's own but numbers will dwindle because you have no FSH, which is also neccesary for spermatogenesis. The hmg is recombinant LH and FSH, run it for a full sperm cycle ~80days and you should b fully functioning. Then u maintain this fertility by continuing hcg for another year.
If you are no primary hypogonadic, you can come off T, go on hcg monotherapy along with clomid, and have high test levels while maintaining fertility .... But from your numbers I think you are primary
PM me if u have any questions brotha
A-a-Ron
New Member
I still use 18 and 19's in the glutes. 22's in the delts and 25's in my legs. I just have a mixture in a quart bag and I'm not one to waste. The big ones aren't really that bad as long as you've got the right angle and take it slow. (that's what she said)
A-a-Ron
New Member
You seem to be the guy I should ask this question to based on your knowledge and research...as mine I can't draw anything conclusive. What are the odds of going permanently sterile from long term use of various compounds based in your readings? I've never been married, no kids at 40. Been using since I was 18 with very little pct. I'm running somewhere in the 150-200 range (women). I've relied in the pullout method 99% of the time and the odds are making me wonder (not as much as how I never caught anything!) Although I'm thankful I have never had to subject a child to some of the crazies I've dated, I haven't ruled out that there might be some woman out there that I might get along with enough to create another A-a-Ron. I don't mean to hijack a post...this just seems to be along the same subject matter.Hcg will maintain intratesticular test neccesary for sperm production, and it can maintain production on it's own but numbers will dwindle because you have no FSH, which is also neccesary for spermatogenesis. The hmg is recombinant LH and FSH, run it for a full sperm cycle ~80days and you should b fully functioning. Then u maintain this fertility by continuing hcg for another year.
If you are no primary hypogonadic, you can come off T, go on hcg monotherapy along with clomid, and have high test levels while maintaining fertility .... But from your numbers I think you are primary
PM me if u have any questions brotha
hotdog23
New Member
Lol well.. As far as I can gather, if you were fully fertile at one time, then a fertility protocol can work for u. One doc even claims that 99% of aas induced azoospermia (?) is reversible. So when u find the right one...
ask away brother! We all learn from each other and each others' questions and answers. More I can learn the better. I am 36 divorced and no kids. I don't want to be infertile forever just yet because I still have time to give marriage and family another go with all the lessons I learned the first time around.
A-a-Ron
New Member
Thanks
Glad you learned before young-uns were involved. And you are right! I look at these pages multiple times daily. I'm on Facebook once a week tops.
If you are no primary hypogonadic, you can come off T, go on hcg monotherapy along with clomid, and have high test levels while maintaining fertility .... But from your numbers I think you are primary
LH:
3.7 mIU/mL (ref 1.7-8.6)
FSH:
4.0 mIU/mL (ref 1.5-12.4)
My LH and FSH are in range, but to me they look on the lower end of that range.
Wouldn't primary cause elevated LH as pituitary tries to increase testosterone levels by stimulating more production? For example, when guys use SERMs to block the pituitary from sensing the elevated E2 the result is an increase in LH to get the boys cranked up again. So If I was primary and the ballz are not working at full capacity then wouldn't my pituitary do the same thing and crank up LH to try to make up for it? (note my E2 was also low)
If I had to pcik the lesser of two evils, I would actually hope it was primary because then just giving myself the test I am missing could be the end of the story, but if it is the pituitary I would be worried--issues there could be really bad news. I did work around a lot of constant exposure to highly toxic chemicals
hotdog23
New Member
LH:
3.7 mIU/mL (ref 1.7-8.6)
FSH:
4.0 mIU/mL (ref 1.5-12.4)
My LH and FSH are in range, but to me they look on the lower end of that range.
Wouldn't primary cause elevated LH as pituitary tries to increase testosterone levels by stimulating more production? For example, when guys use SERMs to block the pituitary from sensing the elevated E2 the result is an increase in LH to get the boys cranked up again. So If I was primary and the ballz are not working at full capacity then wouldn't my pituitary do the same thing and crank up LH to try to make up for it? (note my E2 was also low)
If I had to pcik the lesser of two evils, I would actually hope it was primary because then just giving myself the test I am missing could be the end of the story, but if it is the pituitary I would be worried--issues there could be really bad news. I did work around a lot of constant exposure to highly toxic chemicals
Hmm idk bud. Maybe someone else could chime in. You H and P are functioning correctly but your testes are not producing the test that those levels should gonadotropin numbers should equate too... I don't wanna give you faulty info so I'll bow out. Seems like top of the axis is working fine though
