Need feedback on Insulin protocol (Novolog pre/post)

[TGLTN]

Hi all, trying insulin for the first time. Will be checking fasted blood glucose in morning and throughout the day for some weeks before starting.

-Planning on starting 2iu pharma GH for few weeks before starting insulin
-Plan is to run Novolog both pre and post workout
-Starting with 5iu insulin, slowly increasing from there
-Using 10g carb for every 1iu insulin, will carefully reduce to maybe 7g carb to 1iu insulin
-Carrying glucose pills on body in case of emergencies

All I have are old forum posts to go off of, I don't have a coach that I can get feedback from.
The protocol below is a result of copy and pasting from other posts. (Mutant protocol , other protocols)
I'd like to ask experienced users to give feedback please.
Let me know if anything is missing, if anything should be changed.

PRE-WORKOUT:
-15 min before workout: pin 5iu Novolog
-10 min before workout: Drink Shake #1 (20g PeptoPro, 50g Karbolyn/Vitargo, 5g creatine, 10g glutamine)
-During workout: Sip on Shake #2 (20g PeptoPro, 50g Karbolyn/Vitargo, 5g creatine)
-Is there a step missing here??? A shake/meal needed?

POST-WORKOUT:
-pin 5iu Novolog
-pin + 5 min: drink Shake #3 (50g Karbolyn/Vitargo, 20g PeptoPro, 5g creatine)
-pin + 15 min: drink Shake #4 (60g whey isolate)
-pin + 60 min: eat a protein/carb meal with zero fat

Questions:
1. When to take gh?

-I've heard to pin gh in the morning before fasted cardio and not to eat anything for 1 hour
-I've read to pin gh a little before pinning insulin pre-workout
-I've read to pin gh before bed

2. Time on slin and time off? Do I run slin for 4 weeks then do 4 weeks off while taking metformin/berberine? I've had a 'coach' tell me that I don't even need to come off...but I know insulin desensitization is real

3. Should I pin insulin sub-q or IM? I know it's meant to be pinned sub-q and I've read that IM can mess with the timing?

Please let me know if any of the supplements above are incorrect, or could be replaced with something better, or if any crucial steps are missing, if there is anything you would do differently.

Thank you!

 

[Cashton]

Does your coach think you’re at the level to be using insulin yet?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

This is a potentially complex and individual question that needs answered with trial and error. Plenty of slin/gH protocols floating around here.

At first glance, no need to start with pre AND post right away (you don’t need to fuck with insulin stacking on your first go...), no need to pin slin or eat that close to training, no need to drink specific shit (just carbs and EAAs or whatever else if you want).

keep things simple. Pin GH. Then pin slin. Then eat a pre meal (or shake, doesn’t have to be sugars..). Then go train while sipping carbs and whatever else. Then come home and eat. COVER SLIN WITH CARBS NOT CARBS WITH SLIN. You should not be eating additional carbs to drive higher insulin usage.

 

[Cashton]

This is a potentially complex and individual question that needs answered with trial and error. Plenty of slin/gH protocols floating around here.

At first glance, no need to start with pre AND post right away (you don’t need to fuck with insulin stacking on your first go...), no need to pin slin or eat that close to training, no need to drink specific shit (just carbs and EAAs or whatever else if you want).

keep things simple. Pin GH. Then pin slin. Then eat a pre meal (or shake, doesn’t have to be sugars..). Then go train while sipping carbs and whatever else. Then come home and eat. COVER SLIN WITH CARBS NOT CARBS WITH SLIN. You should not be eating additional carbs to drive higher insulin usage.

I was thinking you would reply, didn’t wanna tag you again for the 3rd time in an insulin thread but I know you give good advice on it so was still hopeful you might chime in.

 

[Eman]

At first glance, no need to start with pre AND post right

This.

 

[Supremo44]

as mac said adjust insulin on your diet and not your diet to your insulin.

 

[Supremo44]

if you use insulin only 2-3 times a week you can run it really long without needing to increase the dose or to take a break. So less is really more when its about insulin in my opinion. Better abuse the shit out of hgh hahah.

 

[Methyl Mike]

This is a potentially complex and individual question that needs answered with trial and error. Plenty of slin/gH protocols floating around here.

At first glance, no need to start with pre AND post right away (you don’t need to fuck with insulin stacking on your first go...), no need to pin slin or eat that close to training, no need to drink specific shit (just carbs and EAAs or whatever else if you want).

keep things simple. Pin GH. Then pin slin. Then eat a pre meal (or shake, doesn’t have to be sugars..). Then go train while sipping carbs and whatever else. Then come home and eat. COVER SLIN WITH CARBS NOT CARBS WITH SLIN. You should not be eating additional carbs to drive higher insulin usage.

Super good answer here.

Also i tried the stupid intrashake bs protocols and they made me nervous and fat

 

[Methyl Mike]

as mac said adjust insulin on your diet and not your diet to your insulin.

Yes yes yes!!!!! OP this the the answer you seek. Read and re-read it!

 

[Cashton]

Super good answer here.

Also i tried the stupid intrashake bs protocols and they made me nervous and fat

I like the intrashake protocol personally, I haven’t run any insulin for a while but I feel like I’m going to be gearing up for a 4 week run coming soon. Once I hit that gains plateau on my deca/test cycle I’ll introduce some insulin and a little dianadrol.

 

[M@NU]

in my experience, Novolog/humalog is not really good pre and post due to the massive overlap.
FIASP would be better for this task with a half-life time of 2 hours

 

[malfeasance]

This is a potentially complex and individual question that needs answered with trial and error. Plenty of slin/gH protocols floating around here.

At first glance, no need to start with pre AND post right away (you don’t need to fuck with insulin stacking on your first go...), no need to pin slin or eat that close to training, no need to drink specific shit (just carbs and EAAs or whatever else if you want).

keep things simple. Pin GH. Then pin slin. Then eat a pre meal (or shake, doesn’t have to be sugars..). Then go train while sipping carbs and whatever else. Then come home and eat. COVER SLIN WITH CARBS NOT CARBS WITH SLIN. You should not be eating additional carbs to drive higher insulin usage.

I couldn't find anything to add. Excellent post.

 

[RackPuller]

Overthinking it bro

doesn’t matter subq or im literally just put that tiny needle anywhere on your body, I just Poke it in my bicep tricep hip quad stomach doesn’t matter lmaooooooo same with the gh.

I don’t buy the exogenous gh getting blunted and being what fucks up insulin sensitivity if taken without being fasted, gh secretagogue is different story.

but, you are still going to have superior lipolysis having it peak in a fasted state, so for cutting I’d recommend the following:
Fasted cardio protocol-
3am - 3iu gh t3/t4
4:30am - Clen/ephedrine whatever
5am - now do your cardio

For growth, I believe you just want your gh,and insulin to peak at the same time postworkout

If you wanna get big, and 100g of carbs is not in your postworkout- rethink things. That’s my base all year 50pre 100post. So start there imo,
take your gh 3hrs before your gnna have your 5unit postworkout insulin and meal with those 100g carbs and 50-75g protein. It’s so simple

with your 100g of carbs to 5unit slin, I’d recommend keeping your carb intake the same and increasing the insulin 1unit per week (your very unlikely to go hypo on this, and your definitely not overdoing the slin). If you get to 7units and are going hypo at 100g carbs add 25g if your not too fat. At week 5 you’ll be at 10 units, my opinion is now you may need 2-4 weeks off insulin

this can be known by taking blood glucose response to your 100g postworkout carbs WITHOUT insulin. If it’s all fucked up it’s time to reset. If your still Gucci like a pucci my opinion is grow on!! It’s good to start checking at the end of week 2

anyway man, hope that made sense lol you can pm me anytime for more detailed responses

This just in——apparently mac said the same thing I did in half the space

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Overthinking it bro

doesn’t matter subq or im literally just put that tiny needle anywhere on your body, I just Poke it in my bicep tricep hip quad stomach doesn’t matter lmaooooooo same with the gh.

I don’t buy the exogenous gh getting blunted and being what fucks up insulin sensitivity if taken without being fasted, gh secretagogue is different story.

but, you are still going to have superior lipolysis having it peak in a fasted state, so for cutting I’d recommend the following:
Fasted cardio protocol-
3am - 3iu gh t3/t4
4:30am - Clen/ephedrine whatever
5am - now do your cardio

For growth, I believe you just want your gh,and insulin to peak at the same time postworkout

If you wanna get big, and 100g of carbs is not in your postworkout- rethink things. That’s my base all year 50pre 100post. So start there imo,
take your gh 3hrs before your gnna have your 5unit postworkout insulin and meal with those 100g carbs and 50-75g protein. It’s so simple

with your 100g of carbs to 5unit slin, I’d recommend keeping your carb intake the same and increasing the insulin 1unit per week (your very unlikely to go hypo on this, and your definitely not overdoing the slin). If you get to 7units and are going hypo at 100g carbs add 25g if your not too fat. At week 5 you’ll be at 10 units, my opinion is now you may need 2-4 weeks off insulin

this can be known by taking blood glucose response to your 100g postworkout carbs WITHOUT insulin. If it’s all fucked up it’s time to reset. If your still Gucci like a pucci my opinion is grow on!! It’s good to start checking at the end of week 2

anyway man, hope that made sense lol you can pm me anytime for more detailed responses

This just in——apparently mac said the same thing I did in half the space

Hahahaha, only because I’ve probably said if 40 times answering threads. Thorough answer though, never hurts. I’m just tired lol.

 

[Zarioh]

Overthinking it bro

doesn’t matter subq or im literally just put that tiny needle anywhere on your body, I just Poke it in my bicep tricep hip quad stomach doesn’t matter lmaooooooo same with the gh.

I don’t buy the exogenous gh getting blunted and being what fucks up insulin sensitivity if taken without being fasted, gh secretagogue is different story.

but, you are still going to have superior lipolysis having it peak in a fasted state, so for cutting I’d recommend the following:
Fasted cardio protocol-
3am - 3iu gh t3/t4
4:30am - Clen/ephedrine whatever
5am - now do your cardio

For growth, I believe you just want your gh,and insulin to peak at the same time postworkout

If you wanna get big, and 100g of carbs is not in your postworkout- rethink things. That’s my base all year 50pre 100post. So start there imo,
take your gh 3hrs before your gnna have your 5unit postworkout insulin and meal with those 100g carbs and 50-75g protein. It’s so simple

with your 100g of carbs to 5unit slin, I’d recommend keeping your carb intake the same and increasing the insulin 1unit per week (your very unlikely to go hypo on this, and your definitely not overdoing the slin). If you get to 7units and are going hypo at 100g carbs add 25g if your not too fat. At week 5 you’ll be at 10 units, my opinion is now you may need 2-4 weeks off insulin

this can be known by taking blood glucose response to your 100g postworkout carbs WITHOUT insulin. If it’s all fucked up it’s time to reset. If your still Gucci like a pucci my opinion is grow on!! It’s good to start checking at the end of week 2

anyway man, hope that made sense lol you can pm me anytime for more detailed responses

This just in——apparently mac said the same thing I did in half the space

If I want my GH to peak with postworkout insulin I should basically pin gh with my preworkout meal? Isnt it a bad idea to pin hgh right after a high carb preworkout meal or am I missing something?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

If I want my GH to peak with postworkout insulin I should basically pin gh with my preworkout meal? Isnt it a bad idea to pin hgh right after a high carb preworkout meal or am I missing something?

Why do you think the slin is there . You want to pin slin following gH, but not 2 hrs after..

this is why log is better IMo, you get a spike to cover the pre carbs and a lasting effect for the gH/igf.

 

[Zarioh]

Why do you think the slin is there . You want to pin slin following gH, but not 2 hrs after..

this is why log is better IMo, you get a spike to cover the pre carbs and a lasting effect for the gH/igf.

Yeh I can understand if you take slin preworkout, but for me it sounded like he recommend hgh only preworkout, and the slin 3 hours later postworkout?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

dude I’m gonna be honest with you...you’re going WAYYY too deep into this. Start your gH alone, take it fasted first thing AM atleast 60-90m before your first meal. And enjoy the benefits it brings. Spend that time figuring out who’s advice you want to follow and then go do it with gH around training.

Going to write this again, for convenience in your decision making progress :
60-75m preworkout: pin GH
45-60m preworkout: pin slin (log) based on your existing pre meal
30-60m preworkout: eat preworkout meal
15m into training: begin sipping Intra with carbs (EAAs and other shit if desired)
post training: eat a meal or have your normal post shake
90m or so post; eat your normal next meal

A tiny bit of fats pre can keep you safer on blood sugar. Keep Intra and 2 post meals fat free if possible.

 

[Zarioh]

dude I’m gonna be honest with you...you’re going WAYYY too deep into this. Start your gH alone, take it fasted first thing AM atleast 60-90m before your first meal. And enjoy the benefits it brings. Spend that time figuring out who’s advice you want to follow and then go do it with gH around training.

Going to write this again, for convenience in your decision making progress :
60-75m preworkout: pin GH
45-60m preworkout: pin slin (log) based on your existing pre meal
30-60m preworkout: eat preworkout meal
15m into training: begin sipping Intra with carbs (EAAs and other shit if desired)
post training: eat a meal or have your normal post shake
90m or so post; eat your normal next meal

A tiny bit of fats pre can keep you safer on blood sugar. Keep Intra and 2 post meals fat free if possible.

Thank you, I think you are absoluty right, im overcomplicating this shit. I will start gH and take it slowly from there. I appreciate you taking your time

 

[TGLTN]

dude I’m gonna be honest with you...you’re going WAYYY too deep into this. Start your gH alone, take it fasted first thing AM atleast 60-90m before your first meal. And enjoy the benefits it brings. Spend that time figuring out who’s advice you want to follow and then go do it with gH around training.

Going to write this again, for convenience in your decision making progress :
60-75m preworkout: pin GH
45-60m preworkout: pin slin (log) based on your existing pre meal
30-60m preworkout: eat preworkout meal
15m into training: begin sipping Intra with carbs (EAAs and other shit if desired)
post training: eat a meal or have your normal post shake
90m or so post; eat your normal next meal

A tiny bit of fats pre can keep you safer on blood sugar. Keep Intra and 2 post meals fat free if possible.

Mac, thank you for your replies and advice to my questions it's very helpful.

I will plan to follow the steps you outlined here taking slin only pre-workout to start, using Novolog. In the future if one were to also add a second slin dose post workout, could you please outline in the same format how the timing would work? What period of time between the two shots does one need to wait to avoid 'overlap' of the insulin durations? Assuming log type.

I will be solidifying my diet and adding insulin according to amount of carbs already in place instead of feeding the insulin dose with food, per everyone's advice here. Thanks all.