New to AAS. First Test cycle

[4leafclover]

Pretty sure he took a crack at the cycle length.

"It's completely unnecessary to extend any standard 12 wk cycle beyond whats absolutely necessary."

Not knocking all bro science, just the 12 week one.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/androgen-receptors-02.htm

 

[HuckingFuge]

Pretty sure he took a crack at the cycle length.

"It's completely unnecessary to extend any standard 12 wk cycle beyond whats absolutely necessary."

Not knocking all bro science, just the 12 week one.

I shouldn't of been speaking for him. I knew he had issues with the PCT and Prop combo, as I did. which was a type o.

 

[brutus79]

Nn also said frontloading is useless and that is totally untrue... it aids in habing stable blood levels based on maintaining a similar half life presence. I don't feel like pulling the studies now but frontloading has always worked for me quite well.

 

[mghoward74]

@HuckingFuge That's what I get for early morning posting, a lack of proof reading.

But I still stand by most of my points, I would not cut off the last 3 weeks of my cycle, just to switch to prop. If I ran 12 week cycles, I would do 12 weeks on, then 3 weeks of prop, rather than 9 weeks on, 3 weeks of prop, just so I could stay in the bro-science 12 week range.

Bottom line is this, you should take bloods when you are figuring out what cycle length works for you and when to start your PCT. Don't be afraid to experiment on yourself a little (provided you have good support for doing so, I have a coach who is very exp with AAS who I can defer to, should I have any questions). I found for myself, I was not at max gains in 12 week cycles, so after some blood work and talking to my coach, I decided to try and extend for 15 weeks. My next cycle, he talked to me about using a short ester to safely prolong my cycle to see if I could still get gains while waiting for the long esters to clear. Having had success there as well, I now run 18 week cycles. I find if I stay in the 15-18 week range, I only have to run 1-2 cycles a year, which is what I prefer.

I don't use prop in PCT, I use it leading into PCT while waiting for the long esters to leave the body, so I can continue to make gains. I think I just used some poor words, I start PCT after the prop clears my system (3 days after last prop inject).

So normally, I go 15 weeks on, 3.5 weeks of test prop while I wait for test c or e to clear. 10 days of proviron, last 3 days of proviron, start double clomid, 1 nolva, after 1 week, 1 nolva, 1 clomid for usually 3 weeks.

I like the sound of this. Will definitely consider something like this.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Lots of confusion here. Regardless, there's no need to be rude or call anyone names 4leafclover. My response was based solely on what you posted. If your reference to using prop during PCT was a typo, thats fine. But dont point your finger at me or suggest im the a-hole when clearly youre the problem. And furthermore, if youre unable to handle a difference of opinion perhaps you should consider stepping away from threads that that dont support your own opinions or ideas. Incidentally, i have no animosity towards you or anyone else. Im here to chill out and help others, not argue.

Brutus, If you go back and re read my posts i said that front loading (testosterone) is unnecessary - not "useless". And i provided some support based on my own experiences and those of others. Having said that, SERMS are routinely front loaded - example; clomid/nolva. Hope that clears up any confusion. If not, i'll be happy to expand on this subject further if you like.

 

[4leafclover]

Boy you sure are condescending, your arrogance is astounding. You may have some valid information, but you're a dick. Thanks.

 

[brutus79]

Lots of confusion here. Regardless, there's no need to be rude or call anyone names 4leafclover. My response was based solely on what you posted. If your reference to using prop during PCT was a typo, thats fine. But dont point your finger at me or suggest im the a-hole when clearly youre the problem. And furthermore, if youre unable to handle a difference of opinion perhaps you should consider stepping away from threads that that dont support your own opinions or ideas. Incidentally, i have no animosity towards you or anyone else. Im here to chill out and help others, not argue.

Brutus, If you go back and re read my posts i said that front loading (testosterone) is unnecessary - not "useless". And i provided some support based on my own experiences and those of others. Having said that, SERMS are routinely front loaded - example; clomid/nolva. Hope that clears up any confusion. If not, i'll be happy to expand on this subject further if you like.

Fair enough.

 

[4leafclover]

Lots of confusion here. Regardless, there's no need to be rude or call anyone names 4leafclover. My response was based solely on what you posted. If your reference to using prop during PCT was a typo, thats fine. But dont point your finger at me or suggest im the a-hole when clearly youre the problem. And furthermore, if youre unable to handle a difference of opinion perhaps you should consider stepping away from threads that that dont support your own opinions or ideas. Incidentally, i have no animosity towards you or anyone else. Im here to chill out and help others, not argue.

Brutus, If you go back and re read my posts i said that front loading (testosterone) is unnecessary - not "useless". And i provided some support based on my own experiences and those of others. Having said that, SERMS are routinely front loaded - example; clomid/nolva. Hope that clears up any confusion. If not, i'll be happy to expand on this subject further if you like.

LOL I'm the problem, I misplaced one word and you post that all my information is irrelevant, and attack my cycle length. You also stated that you provided some support, you provided none, the only thing I can honor here, is that you actually stated it was your opinion which I can respect. The other stuff you spouted, you tried to pass as fact, like not going beyond 12 week cycles, which is crap, maybe 10 years ago when they thought down regulating receptors happened, but that has been proven false. If you wanted a discussion on opposing viewpoints that's fine, don't attack others and try to take "the high ground" from a glass house. If you wanted discussion, then you should have said this is MY OPINION and MY EXPERIENCE. My experiences and opinions differ from yours, which is what I posted in my original post, I didn't attack you, I said I disagreed with 2 points of your post, the rest was solid.

FYI this isn't a regulated forum, so I can call you an asshole if I think you're being one, and yes that can make it MY PROBLEM.

Congratulations, I have only ignored 1 person (no it wasn't even blazing tits), you are now the second.

 

[mghoward74]

Nn also said frontloading is useless and that is totally untrue... it aids in habing stable blood levels based on maintaining a similar half life presence. I don't feel like pulling the studies now but frontloading has always worked for me quite well.

Not an acutal study, but I found this.....inregards to front loading. It mentions test prop. & E.


TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE



With an ester group that is seven carbons long, enanthate has a half-life of approximately 11-15 days. This half-life and the fact that enanthate is oil-based makes it ideal for people who don’t want to inject frequently. Once-a-week injections are preferred with a dosage of 250-1000 mg being common. One of the main differences between a longer acting molecule such as enanthate and a shorter one like prop is the need to frontload. With prop, you get blood levels higher quicker because of the increased frequency of injections required due to the shorter half-life of the drug. You continually supply the body with more, so the level you will ultimately achieve is done so much earlier. Without frontloading enanthate, you take MUCH longer to achieve your optimal blood level.



People frontload in many different ways, but the simplest way to do it is to take double what you plan to take weekly and inject that the first week. So, if you’re going to take 500 mg of enanthate a week, you would simply inject 1000 mg the first week to kickstart your cycle by getting blood levels much higher initially. The lack of frontloading is perhaps part of the misunderstanding of the differences between the different testosterone esters. If you were to compare two individuals who take either test prop or test enanthate without a frontload, you would find that they would have two different experiences. The prop guy would say that his test kicked in very quickly and he saw results from it almost right away. The enanthate guy would say that it took weeks before he ever noticed a thing. So that means that test propionate has a greater kick and takes effect sooner, right? Well, not exactly. Now compare the two guys with the enanthate guy starting off by frontloading. He would dramatically cut down the time between first injection and the seeing of results. I’ll say it again: Testosterone is testosterone. The ester is stripped from the molecule once in the body, only at different rates for different esters. Once that happens, the parent molecule is the exact same thing.


Trying to contribute