Next cycle after getting gyno

[flipmcneil]

Two years ago I did a Tren/Prop cycle for 6 weeks. I used anti-estrogens and did clomid PCT. I got a small lump under one of my nipples about a month after PCT. It is very small and only I notice it. I was consisdering doing a Prop cycle again but I am afraid it will cause the lump to get bigger. Last cycle I took clomid for 3 weeks after my cycle was done. Is gyno after a cycle common? Should I have done something else to prevent getting gyno? Is there a good chance it could get worse if I do another cycle of just Test Prop even if I use anti-estrogens? I am really confused about my devloping gyno after the cycle was over, I did not have any symptoms of it while I was on.

 

[jamiebroom]

Two years ago I did a Tren/Prop cycle for 6 weeks. I used anti-estrogens and did clomid PCT. I got a small lump under one of my nipples about a month after PCT. It is very small and only I notice it. I was consisdering doing a Prop cycle again but I am afraid it will cause the lump to get bigger. Last cycle I took clomid for 3 weeks after my cycle was done. Is gyno after a cycle common? Should I have done something else to prevent getting gyno? Is there a good chance it could get worse if I do another cycle of just Test Prop even if I use anti-estrogens? I am really confused about my devloping gyno after the cycle was over, I did not have any symptoms of it while I was on.

First, estrogen is higher after cycle take nolva. You can use arimidex to totaly stop estro conversion.

 

[einstein1905]

Just to clarify something I too commonly see. Arimidex will not completely prevent estrogen conversion....it merely reduces conversion.


Every cycle should use at least 0.25mg/day of adex and 10mg/day of nolva....ALL the way through, including pct, with the exception that nolva gets bumped to 20mg/day and clomid is added. An AI during a cycle as well as pct serves many purposes (controlling estrogen, increasing IGF-1, reducing SHBG, and expediting HPTA recovery).

 

[Bal]

Just to clarify something I too commonly see. Arimidex will not completely prevent estrogen conversion....it merely reduces conversion.


Every cycle should use at least 0.25mg/day of adex and 10mg/day of nolva....ALL the way through, including pct, with the exception that nolva gets bumped to 20mg/day and clomid is added. An AI during a cycle as well as pct serves many purposes (controlling estrogen, increasing IGF-1, reducing SHBG, and expediting HPTA recovery).

You need SOME estrogen don't you? Can't you just titrate arimidex to keep estrogen in the normal range? Also, I don't understand the point in taking nolva throughout the cycle; if your estrogen levels are low enough (normal), wouldn't your receptors just needlessly be upregulated by taking nolva throughout?

--Bal

 

[flipmcneil]

How long post cycle do most people run Nolvadex? I only ran arimidex and clomid for three weeks post cycle. I guess it was an estrogen rebound that gave me gyno. Would extending Nolvadex longer prevent this?

 

[einstein1905]

You need SOME estrogen don't you? Can't you just titrate arimidex to keep estrogen in the normal range? Also, I don't understand the point in taking nolva throughout the cycle; if your estrogen levels are low enough (normal), wouldn't your receptors just needlessly be upregulated by taking nolva throughout?

--Bal

You have to take into consideration that we are taking in exogenous test in quantities that bring our serum levels to many times that of physiological levels. Taking adex at the doses I suggest will still leave you with far beyond normal physiological levels of estrogen, which is what we want, due to estrogen being very anabolic. Nolva throughout a cycle allows for these high E2 levels by being a strong ER antagonist at the most susceptible site, the breast. Nolva also increases HDL and reduces LDL to counteract the unwanted effects on lipid profiles from AAS use.

The numbers you see where 1mg/day of adex reduces E2 levels by 85% are in women with normal levels of aromatizable substrate......we do not fit that description. The amounts of aromatizable substrate we introduce to our bodies means the % reduction is greatly reduced.
The real trick is to determine when estrogen is just high enough and not too high, as estrogen increases SHBG as well.

 

[flipmcneil]

So how long would you run the Nolvadex? and have you heard of many people who have a very small case of gyno and do another cycle with proper anti-e's and expierence no problems from aggravating it?

 

[einstein1905]

So how long would you run the Nolvadex? and have you heard of many people who have a very small case of gyno and do another cycle with proper anti-e's and expierence no problems from aggravating it?

I run adex all throughout my cycle and throughout my clomid pct (usually 4 weeks), but I run nolva at 20mg/day throughout pct and one week past clomid and adex.

Even if you have a slight case of gyno from a previous cycle, you are no more "at risk" for symptoms in subsequent cycles than you were in your first. You may want to use nolva at 20mg/day in addition to adex at .25mg/day to play it safe. How long ago was the lump developed? If it wasn't too long ago, treating it with 60-80mg/day of nolva can reduce it or eliminate it completely.

 

[VDC]

Einstein,,,I understand your logic and feel that you are acting on correct info,,,I have a question about the half life of Nolva,,,I'm under the impression that its like 4-5 days,,,Doesn't the build up in the blood stream of N affect the results???VDC

 

[einstein1905]

Einstein,,,I understand your logic and feel that you are acting on correct info,,,I have a question about the half life of Nolva,,,I'm under the impression that its like 4-5 days,,,Doesn't the build up in the blood stream of N affect the results???VDC

The half-life is actually 7 days, but the doses we use are what work. You could certainly take 3.5x the dose every 3.5 days and be fine. It's just that most of us are using liquids, so adex is ED......so one exta squirt per day isn't very time consuming.

 

[VDC]

Cool,,,Thanks,,,VDC

 

[flipmcneil]

It was about two years ago that it developed. It is a small pea sized hard lump that is there now. It is not big enough to notice without actually pinching my nipple. I think it is too late to try large doses of Nolvadex to try to reduce it.

 

[VDC]

You are not alone,,,I still have a lump from my first cycle,,,VDC