On testosterone and anavar. Going to add some Deca. How should I adjust testosterone and/or anavar, if at all?

[deeoeraclea]

When I am on 140 mg/week of testosterone cypionate (administered sub-Q every other day). At this dose my total test is around 1250 ng/dL and (calculated) free test is at 27 ng/dL.

Right now, in addition to 140 mg/week of test, I am on 20 mg/day of anavar. My total test is now at 700 ng/dL and (calculated) free test is at 24 ng/dL. The anavar seems to lower my SHBG a lot.

Oeverall, I feel good on just testosterone alone and also when I combine test and anavar. I have no noticeable side effects (no hair thinning, oily skin or nipple sensitivity). And my LDL and blood pressure are in the normal range. Estrogen is high normal.

I'm going to add in 70 mg/week of Deca (administered sub-Q every other day) in order to help alleviate some joint pain in my right knee, which has been going on for months. MRI and X-ray doesn't show any serious cartilage, meniscus or ligament damage. But, there's a lot of extra fluid indicating some inflammation. I've already tried PT, and PRP without any improvement.

My question is: how should I adjust the anavar and/or test when I add in the Deca? My goals are
-- get some pain relief in my knee from the Deca
-- avoid introducing androgenic or estrogenic side effects (thinning hair, oily skin, nipple sensitivity, etc.)
-- maintain or increase anabolic effects

My MD suggested lowering testosterone dose from 140 mg/week to 70 mg/week to account for the 70 mg/week of Deca I am adding. But, my plan was to just add in the Deca without adjusting my testosterone or anavar dose and just see how I feel.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

PS I'm not looking for suggestion on how to deal with my knee pain. I am already attacking that problem from a number of different angles. I really just want advice on how to adjust the test and anavar when adding in the deca.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Why not just add the Deca do blood work in 30 days then adjust? I'm sure you researched Deca, so you know it will work on paper for your goals. Now test it out and find out how your body reacts. Of course, if you don't like what your blood work says, you will have about 30 days for it to clear your system once you stop.

 

[ErectionAdvisor]

70mg is a drop in the bucket. You likely won’t need to adjust anything.

 

[krvuxn]

70mg per week of nandrolone is not going to do … much of anything at all. Firstly it is not an analgesic, so you will not get any pain relief. Secondly I doubt 70mg will be noticeably anabolic. I would stick with the testosterone and anavar.

 

[deeoeraclea]

It's pretty well-established that nandrolone results in additional synovial fluid in one's joints, which is not only pain-relieving but joint-protective.

 

[krvuxn]

I’m well aware. But in my experience my knees can still hurt on 200mg every 3 days. So it’ll help if your knee issues are related to the synovial fluid. If not… then it won’t.

Another thing, I believe that study was in hypogonadal males. I’m not a scientist but I believe if you’re on testosterone then that won’t apply directly to you.

 

[DespondentWojak]

Deca worked great for me and my knee pain (PFPS), but I've never done less than 200mg/wk when on it with an equivalent test dose, so take that as you will. Nothing wrong with starting low and increasing, just realize that results, just like the test, are not immediate and it will take months of slow increases to find your sweet spot, especially the lower the dose.

Personally, at only 140mg test/wk I would not lower it to account for such a low level of deca, and if you do, certainly do not cut it in half. 210mg/wk total, not even accounting for syringe deadspace and injection backflow is hardly anything crazy. I'm not sure what the general consensus is from others, but for me I wanted test to be equal to or greater than the amount of deca I was getting for the best bloods and no sexual sides. If you can't find relief below or equal to a total of 300mg/wk then you're unlikely to see any without going into cycle range.

 

[Liter O' Test]

deca might just be a bandaid an antiinflammatory effect, are you trying to build a lot of muscle?
Some people are into this "biohacking" thing where they add a little of this and a little of that and make it some optimal TRT and avoid the downsides and I think its a waste of time muscle wise and at best a placebo and at worst just taking enough of something to screw with your body. just my $0.02

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Would 70+mg add anabolism to a cycle? Definitely but not a heavy mass builder

 

[Intrepid]

OPs logic makes sense. Seems like he wants join relief, with the benefits of AAS, and no/mimimal sides. Deca at a low dose can help accomplish this, and it's been well known for a while it promotes collagen synthesis, especially in cartilage

Nandrolone decanoate relieves joint pain in hypogonadal men: a novel prospective pilot study and review of the literature - PMC

Testosterone is an archetypal androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS), while its exogenous administration is considered to be the gold standard for the treatment of male hypogonadism. The benefits are not due to its intrinsic nature alone but are due to ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Of the 18 men who responded to their follow-up request, 13 (72.2%) reported marked improvements in joint pain, with 5 (27.8%) reporting a decreased need for longstanding pain medication. Amongst responding patients, pain scores were reduced on average by 52%. Even when accounting for treatment non-responders, the collective improvement in pain scores observed across each of the 4 sub-categories of the RAPS was both statistically significant and profound (Figure 2). No adverse events were noted."

"For decades, testosterone has been the sole instrument in the andrologist’s arsenal for the ongoing treatment and management of male hypogonadism. However, with increased interest and emerging research, there now exist more options than ever to help combat the sequelae of this devastating clinical condition. Nandrolone is a particularly compelling medication that has significant beneficial effects on joint pain in hypogonadal men, reducing their reliance on chronic pain medication and reducing pain scores in responding men by more than half. Although further studies are required to replicate and characterize these findings on a larger scale, they suggest a novel indication for a fascinating drug that appears to hold great promise for future clinical use. It is increasingly apparent that the field of modern andrology is evolving rapidly with ever-expanding options to assist our patients in novel and exciting ways."

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Would 70+mg add anabolism to a cycle? Definitely but not a heavy mass builder

I meant to say. For taking relief. I would add 100 just for an easy number with UGL vials.

 

[deeoeraclea]

Would 70+mg add anabolism to a cycle? Definitely but not a heavy mass builder

Mass-building is not my primary goal (though, if I get some extra muscle, I'm not going to complain). I really want to just get a little bit of pain relief for my knee and perhaps some protection from further damage. At the same time, avoiding unwanted side-effects is a priority over mass-building.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Mass-building is not my primary goal (though, if I get some extra muscle, I'm not going to complain). I really want to just get a little bit of pain relief for my knee and perhaps some protection from further damage. At the same time, avoiding unwanted side-effects is a priority over mass-building.

yea, I forgot to put the side note of what the intention was.

I dont see anything wrong with it, but just cause alot of UGL are dosed at 200-300mg/ml. I would think just stick with 75-80mg(Could be .25-.4ml depending on concentration) for simplicity sake.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Mass-building is not my primary goal (though, if I get some extra muscle, I'm not going to complain). I really want to just get a little bit of pain relief for my knee and perhaps some protection from further damage. At the same time, avoiding unwanted side-effects is a priority over mass-building.

During your research, what did you find was the minimum dose for Joint pain relief? The reason I ask is, my buddy is prescribed 200mg a week for his HRT when he brought up joint pain.

 

[deeoeraclea]

During your research, what did you find was the minimum dose for Joint pain relief? The reason I ask is, my buddy is prescribed 200mg a week for his HRT when he brought up joint pain.

Is your buddy on just Deca or Deca + Test? I'm also getting Deca through my TRT doc. And he wanted to just swap 1/2 of my Test for and equal amount of Deca. My plan is to ignore him and just add the Deca.

As for the pain-relieving dose, I don't recall what was used in the studies. But, I previously ran about 70 mg/week of npp and felt some pain relief. But, I also had a lot of injection-site inflammation, so I stopped. I'm hoping that the inflammation was just due to some problems with the UG lab that I got the npp from. Hopefully, now that I'm getting Deca from a regulated compouonding pharmacy, I won't have the PIP.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Is your buddy on just Deca or Deca + Test? I'm also getting Deca through my TRT doc. And he wanted to just swap 1/2 of my Test for and equal amount of Deca. My plan is to ignore him and just add the Deca.

As for the pain-relieving dose, I don't recall what was used in the studies. But, I previously ran about 70 mg/week of npp and felt some pain relief. But, I also had a lot of injection-site inflammation, so I stopped. I'm hoping that the inflammation was just due to some problems with the UG lab that I got the npp from. Hopefully, now that I'm getting Deca from a regulated compouonding pharmacy, I won't have the PIP.

They have him on 200mg Test-C and 200mg Deca a week. He told me he pays $200 a 10ml bottle (if you want to compare your clinic). I wish my TRT clinic had more than Test-C. I believe my state doesn't allow it.

 

[deeoeraclea]

They have him on 200mg Test-C and 200mg Deca a week. He told me he pays $200 a 10ml bottle (if you want to compare your clinic). I wish my TRT clinic had more than Test-C. I believe my state doesn't allow it.

Wow. What clinic is that?! That's quite a generous dose for a clinic to be giving. Officially, I'm now on 70 mg/week of test and 70 mg/week of deca. I don't think my doc would approve more than that, given my free and total testosterone. But, as I stated above, I'm going to do 140 mg/week of test with 70 mg/week of deca. I also think I paid more for the deca than your friend is paying. Would be far cheaper to go with the UG stuff. But, then I would always wonder about dose and purity. And, at least with a compounding pharmacy that shouldn't be a concern.

 

[Grey Spartan]

And, at least with a compounding pharmacy that shouldn't be a concern.

A compounding pharmacy is just a legal UGL (that as far as we know isn't tested). That's why on MESO, UGLs are required to have everything tested before offering products. But if you feel better have at it. If I could get everything from Eli Lilly I would.

 

[NotHuman]

Deca was a complete game changer for my joints. I’ll be on it the rest of my life. 75mg is supposed to be enough for those benefits but I wouldn’t really expect much anabolism from that dose.

 

[Eddie.]

Deca was a complete game changer for my joints. I’ll be on it the rest of my life. 75mg is supposed to be enough for those benefits but I wouldn’t really expect much anabolism from that dose.

That's sweet brother, unfortunately 150mg NPP don't do jackshit for my joints, i'm actually feeling worse in that matter. Maybe because since i added anadrol too i lift heavier.. If the brand wasn't reputable i'd think it might be something else or straight oil.