Operation Cyber Juice - First Guilty Plea from UGL Based in Broome County

[x666x]

What was in that package that leaked?

I'll tell you probably what was in it. Labeled steroids.

One of the absolute dumbest things UGL does is label their products. They even pride themselves on their labels as if that was something special.

We have all done it, vials of steroids clearly marked in the mail. Most of the time they are vacuum sealed and bubble wrapped, but I've had lazy sloppy sources that toss the vials in with a few pieces of wrapping paper and hope for the best and the labels have T, Deca, Mast, ...... That's stupid.

If you ship 30 vials to my house and they all have unique identifying numbers, but have nothing as far as identifying what's in them I doubt anyone is gonna get busted, but who knows.


None of my brews or sourced brews have any labels or numbers on them at all. I have them identified with one single dot in various locations of the vials. That way if I do get busted they're gonna have to figure out my system.

 

[bdsupplements]

Thank you for taking the time to do an AMA session for MESO! I agree that it is a great opportunity for members to learn more about the entire experience and process you underwent.

One question that I have concerns the post-conviction and sentencing period. Basically, what was life like afterward with a felony record? How difficult was it to gain employment, start your business, loans, mortgages, merchant accounts, etc. Challenges? Frustrations? Struggles?

Again, this is a great question, Millard. I am just getting out of prison from this conviction now. Therefore, it is yet undetermined how this most immediate conviction will affect my life. But, let me answer your question by taking you back to a previous time in my life. Back in 2008, I did a short state bid for the same thing, possession and distribution of anabolic steroids, only on a much smaller scale. I have a degree in biochemistry, however, upon being released from state prison, at that time, obtaining a job with the concomitant felonies was nearly impossible. I ended up volunteering at a hospital, and after getting to know some of the staff and proving I was a diligent worker, they hired me. I was only a low-level lab tech, making $9 an hour. I made $275 a week. I could not survive on that. I knew one way to make money. This time I did it A LOT bigger. It is actually a very interesting rags to riches story in the vein of Wolf of Wallstreet, or War Dogs. As I stated, I was making $275 a week, I became a source on the internet hoping that I could make an extra $200-$300 a week. If I could make $300 extra a week, it would be great. I blew up on the internet. Before I knew it, I was making $20k-$30k per week. By the end, gross revenue was $50k or more a week.

Back to the point, the felony made it very hard to find a job, and I knew only one way to make money. Most ex-felons face this problem. If we look at the criminal justice system macroscopically, the rate of recidivism is shockingly high. One of the reasons for the high rate of reoffending is because the system makes it so difficult to get a job with a felony. When people don’t know what else to do, they go back to what they know.

That being said, there has been bi-partisan support to reform the criminal justice system, and we are in the very beginning stages of attempting to fix some of the issues. But, because I know what it is like attempting to find a meaningful job with a felony, my only ambition will be to start my own business. This time around, I will not do anything illegal, but, with my vast amount of experience, I am in the process of starting a Management Services Organization that will operate a legal testosterone clinic. So, to answer your question Millard, everything becomes exponentially more difficult with a felony record. However, if I had it to do all over again, as sick as it might sound, I wouldn't take any of it back. I learned a ton, I gained a lot of experience, I had the time to read voraciously to further educate myself, and it made me the better man that I am today...

 

[bdsupplements]

What was in that package that leaked?

That package that leaked had about 100 20ml bottles in it (I used to only make 20ml bottles). When they opened that one, they also seized two other packages that contained the same.

 

[DannZ]

That package that leaked had about 100 20ml bottles in it (I used to only make 20ml bottles). When they opened that one, they also seized two other packages that contained the same.

Was it all labelled?

 

[bdsupplements]

I'll tell you probably what was in it. Labeled steroids.

One of the absolute dumbest things UGL does is label their products. They even pride themselves on their labels as if that was something special.

We have all done it, vials of steroids clearly marked in the mail. Most of the time they are vacuum sealed and bubble wrapped, but I've had lazy sloppy sources that toss the vials in with a few pieces of wrapping paper and hope for the best and the labels have T, Deca, Mast, ...... That's stupid.

If you ship 30 vials to my house and they all have unique identifying numbers, but have nothing as far as identifying what's in them I doubt anyone is gonna get busted, but who knows.


None of my brews or sourced brews have any labels or numbers on them at all. I have them identified with one single dot in various locations of the vials. That way if I do get busted they're gonna have to figure out my system.

Ha Ha! You are right. In retrospect, I should have done a lot of things differently. But to become as big as we were, it is all about branding. We made a quality product at a great price, but most steroid clients need to see that trusted brand or they get sketchy about it being fake. If I would have started off selling bottles without labels, people would have laughed at me and I never would have made a dime.

 

[bdsupplements]

Was it all labelled?

Yes

 

[bdsupplements]

We could go all day with things I should have done differently. One of the main regrets I have was not using Wickr or Signal to communicate with employees. The main evidence they had was that they were able to track down and piece together all of the texts from the burner phones. They never even had a phone tap. Had we used Wickr or Signal to communicate, it would have made it much more difficult for them, and I am not sure they would have secured enough evidence to indict.
Another was using a receiving house in the beginning. The shipment that leaked and was opened by the post office was in route directly to a shipper's house. When the DEA went to that house, there was product and evidence of shipping there (we knew they were coming and got most of the product out). They couldn't charge anyone with what was in the leaked packages that were intercepted, because no one possessed them. So LE was only able to charge the shipper for a scant amount of product. But that was enough to scare the shipper into informing on everything and everyone. Had we used a clean receiving house (we started using receiving houses after this event), LE would not have been able to charge anyone with anything, hence we may have never been indicted.

 

[x666x]

Working for yourself is all you can do when you've got a criminal record.

Especially today where employers do extensive search to dig up any dirt.

After having spent 25 years working as a medical lab technologist, the corporate workplace is really just a half way house designed to keep track of people, a system where we agree to inventory and spy one another. Let me see your references?, I want to know where you've been?, what you've been doing. The first thing people ask you, "who do you work for, who is your keeper, who's keeping tabs on you and watching you to keep you out of trouble". Are you married, you don't live alone do you, we want someone inside your home watching you to make sure you're not up to anything we don't approve.

The government doesn't like anyone undercutting them. Sourcing steroids isn't the problem, the problem is they aren't getting their cut. With big pharma they get their cut, they buy off 99.99999% of congress, but you guys that decide to go it alone aren't playing ball and we can't have that. What's the first thing cops state when they do a raid......"where's the money and when they find it they scream out to their fellow gangsters with glee". Rarely do they list the drugs they found, they list assets they'll seize and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

I don't see the drug war ending only because America has no principles, it's only about cold hard cash and those with the guns to our heads demanding we pay.

We have a set of masters in this country that will never allow us freedom. Freedom is just an abstract, it doesn't exist in reality, it's just something the mindless like to shout when they are free to go to McDonald's for a milkshake.

 

[Delphi]

Again, this is a great question, Millard. I am just getting out of prison from this conviction now. Therefore, it is yet undetermined how this most immediate conviction will affect my life. But, let me answer your question by taking you back to a previous time in my life. Back in 2008, I did a short state bid for the same thing, possession and distribution of anabolic steroids, only on a much smaller scale. I have a degree in biochemistry, however, upon being released from state prison, at that time, obtaining a job with the concomitant felonies was nearly impossible. I ended up volunteering at a hospital, and after getting to know some of the staff and proving I was a diligent worker, they hired me. I was only a low-level lab tech, making $9 an hour. I made $275 a week. I could not survive on that. I knew one way to make money. This time I did it A LOT bigger. It is actually a very interesting rags to riches story in the vein of Wolf of Wallstreet, or War Dogs. As I stated, I was making $275 a week, I became a source on the internet hoping that I could make an extra $200-$300 a week. If I could make $300 extra a week, it would be great. I blew up on the internet. Before I knew it, I was making $20k-$30k per week. By the end, gross revenue was $50k or more a week.

Back to the point, the felony made it very hard to find a job, and I knew only one way

For ever Door closed a new one is opened. You can find excuses for anything if you want.

Fact is, you can start almost any type of business, and if you are the boss, you can make the rules.

You can also get a felony expunged in most states. You can even get a license from the BATF to sell guns, or even own a machine gun if you get your felony expunged.

About the only job you can't get with a felony expunged is in law enforcement.

to make money. Most ex-felons face this problem. If we look at the criminal justice system macroscopically, the rate of recidivism is shockingly high. One of the reasons for the high rate of reoffending is because the system makes it so difficult to get a job with a felony. When people don’t know what else to do, they go back to what they know.

Most felons are drug addicts, and idiots. Thats their problem. Only the dummies get caught. You are not the normal Felon, so I'm not talking about you.

That being said, there has been bi-partisan support to reform the criminal justice system, and we are in the very beginning stages of attempting to fix some of the issues. But, because I know what it is like attempting to find a meaningful job with a felony, my only ambition will be to start my own business. This time around, I will not do anything illegal, but, with my vast amount of experience, I am in the process of starting a Management Services Organization that will operate a legal testosterone clinic. So, to answer your question Millard, everything becomes exponentially more difficult with a felony record. However, if I had it to do all over again, as sick as it might sound, I wouldn't take any of it back. I learned a ton, I gained a lot of experience, I had the time to read voraciously to further educate myself, and it made me the better man that I am today...

 

[bdsupplements]

Working for yourself is all you can do when you've got a criminal record.

Especially today where employers do extensive search to dig up any dirt.

After having spent 25 years working as a medical lab technologist, the corporate workplace is really just a half way house designed to keep track of people, a system where we agree to inventory and spy one another. Let me see your references?, I want to know where you've been?, what you've been doing. The first thing people ask you, "who do you work for, who is your keeper, who's keeping tabs on you and watching you to keep you out of trouble". Are you married, you don't live alone do you, we want someone inside your home watching you to make sure you're not up to anything we don't approve.

The government doesn't like anyone undercutting them. Sourcing steroids isn't the problem, the problem is they aren't getting their cut. With big pharma they get their cut, they buy off 99.99999% of congress, but you guys that decide to go it alone aren't playing ball and we can't have that. What's the first thing cops state when they do a raid......"where's the money and when they find it they scream out to their fellow gangsters with glee". Rarely do they list the drugs they found, they list assets they'll seize and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

I don't see the drug war ending only because America has no principles, it's only about cold hard cash and those with the guns to our heads demanding we pay.

We have a set of masters in this country that will never allow us freedom. Freedom is just an abstract, it doesn't exist in reality, it's just something the mindless like to shout when they are free to go to McDonald's for a milkshake.

Nice rant! I absolutely love it!

 

[x666x]

I'm not sure it's easy to get a criminal record like BD has wiped out. I don't know about these things, but he's spent actual time behind bars.

Once you're on the digital plantation they want you picking cotton for the rest of your life. That's why we have so many people who end up back in prison.

I've known guys that went to prison for drugs and the cops follow and stop them wherever they can. They're harassing them because they're an easy mark. Let me see your ID, do you have a warrant, you're out kind of late aren't you, it's after 10 p.m., shouldn't you be in bed like a good boy, let me run your ID to see if you're on probation.

The digital plantation exists to keep people in terror, as they're chased through the cotton fields and forests until on day they're caught and held down to have half their foot cut off.

 

[Delphi]

I'm not sure it's easy to get a criminal record like BD has wiped out. I don't know about these things, but he's spent actual time behind bars.

It can be very easy. In my state, as long as it was non violent, and so many years have passed, and it's only good for one felony. Varies from state to state.

Once you're on the digital plantation they want you picking cotton for the rest of your life. That's why we have so many people who end up back in prison.

I've known guys that went to prison for drugs and the cops follow and stop them wherever they can. They're harassing them because they're an easy mark. Let me see your ID, do you have a warrant, you're out kind of late aren't you, it's after 10 p.m., shouldn't you be in bed like a good boy, let me run your ID to see if you're on probation.

You can either keep thinking of excuses, or accomplish what you want, if anything in life.

I've seen people who have nothing, happy as can be, and people who have everything, complain day and night. The choice is yours.

The digital plantation exists to keep people in terror, as they're chased through the cotton fields and forests until on day they're caught and held down to have half their foot cut off.

 

[x666x]

Most important question is prison life.

You obviously had to come off gear, you're now low T, not feeling all that strong. How do you handle the guys that want to get in your face?

What about guys that are homo?

 

[x666x]

Another question?

When they raided your places, how extensive was the search? Did they just look for what was in clear sight, or did they start taking things apart, looking behind walls.

Did you keep your financial records hidden, did you keep your cash hidden. Did you drive crappy or flashy vehicles, did you live in a dump or a nice place?

I'm just wondering if my own OPSEC is good enough or if I should ramp it up even more.

 

[Iamnatty]

Again, this is a great question, Millard. I am just getting out of prison from this conviction now. Therefore, it is yet undetermined how this most immediate conviction will affect my life. But, let me answer your question by taking you back to a previous time in my life. Back in 2008, I did a short state bid for the same thing, possession and distribution of anabolic steroids, only on a much smaller scale. I have a degree in biochemistry, however, upon being released from state prison, at that time, obtaining a job with the concomitant felonies was nearly impossible. I ended up volunteering at a hospital, and after getting to know some of the staff and proving I was a diligent worker, they hired me. I was only a low-level lab tech, making $9 an hour. I made $275 a week. I could not survive on that. I knew one way to make money. This time I did it A LOT bigger. It is actually a very interesting rags to riches story in the vein of Wolf of Wallstreet, or War Dogs. As I stated, I was making $275 a week, I became a source on the internet hoping that I could make an extra $200-$300 a week. If I could make $300 extra a week, it would be great. I blew up on the internet. Before I knew it, I was making $20k-$30k per week. By the end, gross revenue was $50k or more a week.

Back to the point, the felony made it very hard to find a job, and I knew only one way to make money. Most ex-felons face this problem. If we look at the criminal justice system macroscopically, the rate of recidivism is shockingly high. One of the reasons for the high rate of reoffending is because the system makes it so difficult to get a job with a felony. When people don’t know what else to do, they go back to what they know.

That being said, there has been bi-partisan support to reform the criminal justice system, and we are in the very beginning stages of attempting to fix some of the issues. But, because I know what it is like attempting to find a meaningful job with a felony, my only ambition will be to start my own business. This time around, I will not do anything illegal, but, with my vast amount of experience, I am in the process of starting a Management Services Organization that will operate a legal testosterone clinic. So, to answer your question Millard, everything becomes exponentially more difficult with a felony record. However, if I had it to do all over again, as sick as it might sound, I wouldn't take any of it back. I learned a ton, I gained a lot of experience, I had the time to read voraciously to further educate myself, and it made me the better man that I am today...

Yes that's one thing I wonder about and worry about is having to goto somewhere like prison and having to come off and being low test or no test. How did that feel or work out for you?

 

[bdsupplements]

Most important question is prison life.

You obviously had to come off gear, you're now low T, not feeling all that strong. How do you handle the guys that want to get in your face?

What about guys that are homo?

Thank you for the question. Another very good one. I did have to come off exogenous testosterone. That was rough. I suffered from all of the typical symptoms. I suppose I got used to it as time went on. I just had my blood labs done so I can finally get back on TRT.

As far as dealing with other prisoners and the potential violence that is usually associated with prison; All of us on the indictment were non-violent, so the 5 of us that went to prison, went to a prison camp. Violence and intimidation is traditionally more tempered in prison camps, but not that it doesn't exist. There are a lot of people who, due to good behavior, came down from medium security prisons, and even maximum security prisons. Therefore, the air of prison context is evident, and at times, palpable. As with any society, the key to having everyone's respect is to earn it - and by that, I do not mean to intimidate and prove you are tough. You earn people's respect by creating value for yourself, and being valuable in a society. You earn the most respect by helping the most amount of people in the most meaningful way. When you are needed, when people look to you to help solve their problems, to help them survive, that is where true respect and loyalty is earned. Understanding this, I realized that most people in prison need legal help. I started voraciously studying the law, at first to appeal my own case pro se, then specifically to help others with their cases. I became the go to "jailhouse lawyer" to help people with the immediate prison administration, or to help people submit motions or habeas corpus petitions to the Court. In this rite, I became very valuable, and very well liked throughout the prison population. I learned that is the best way to handle that type of environment.

Again, very good question, and thank you for asking it.

 

[bdsupplements]

Another question?

When they raided your places, how extensive was the search? Did they just look for what was in clear sight, or did they start taking things apart, looking behind walls.

Did you keep your financial records hidden, did you keep your cash hidden. Did you drive crappy or flashy vehicles, did you live in a dump or a nice place?

I'm just wondering if my own OPSEC is good enough or if I should ramp it up even more.

The raid happened simultaneously to about 12 or more people (there were only ten on the indictment, so they raided a few people who were never indicted, which I didn't find out until years after). They orchestrated a simultaneous raid spanning many states, at about 5am EST.

I lived in a large apartment complex penthouse overlooking the Hudson River and New York City. For me, they simply knocked on the door, covered up the peephole so I couldn't see who it was, and I answered the door (It was 5am, I answered the door in an angry testosterone fueled manner... until I saw who it was). They tore the place apart. Going through everything. I didn't have a lot of illegal products at my place. Just some personal use stuff, and I used to make Xanax, so I had about 100 of my Xanax pills too. Interestingly enough, I was never charged with that and it was never mentioned, no was the stuff I had for personal use. I was taken to the courthouse, put in a cell for hours, and bailed out later that day. They took me out before they really started searching, so I wasn't able to see how much they searched, or where they searched. They let my girlfriend stay there while they searched. They through everything out of closets and drawers all over the floors. They didn't destroy any walls or anything, but the place was an absolute wreck when I got back there the next day.

The financials gets interesting. They seized two of my bank accounts, only two accounts which were opened in the state in which I resided at the time. I had a bank account that I had just opened two weeks prior to being arrested, and they never saw that one. I had an account in another state, and they never found that one. One of the ways I used to collect money was through Greendot and Reloadit cards, and not one of those accounts was ceased or suspended. It was evident that a few months before the arrest, they checked for bank accounts only in the state in which I resided, and didn't look anywhere else for accounts. They seized about $100k in cash ($40k in cash at my place, and $60k from bank accounts), and they also seized 3 houses. All in all, they got just about all of my money and assets. I wasn't smart about stashing any money. I was quite profligate. As I stated, I had a penthouse overlooking Manhatton, and I leased a brand new top of line Jaguar F-Type. They didn't come after me because I was flashy though, they came after me because of the events I have spoken of previously. In retrospect, I wish I would have stashed some of the money I had made over the years.

I will say that there is a strange mental dynamic involved in going from poor to affluent. It is a very profound change, and it is very difficult to navigate. I got much better at dealing with that change as time went on. Some of your relationships strengthen, while some of your relationships sour; some your fault, some not. With that being sad, I have learned a lot, and I believe I am a better person for the experience.

Thanks for the question.

 

[x666x]

I realized that most people in prison need legal help. I started voraciously studying the law, at first to appeal my own case pro se, then specifically to help others with their cases. I became the go to "jailhouse lawyer" to help people with the immediate prison administration, or to help people submit motions or habeas corpus petitions to the Court. In this rite, I became very valuable, and very well liked throughout the prison population. I learned that is the best way to handle that type of environment.

Again, very good question, and thank you for asking it.

Don't you see the law as a bit hopeless.

If federal and state laws are written by people that are often unenlightened and ignorant of the topics they legislate, then what is the point.

I compare the written law like that of religion, 99.9999% of it is total bullshit that someone just pulled out of their ass and had the audacity to insist we take seriously.

Should someone like you that entered into business with free and willing customers spending what I would call small sums of money that was basically cash they had to burn on a service you provided through your reputation as a source. Then there is no crime. I could see if you robbing, harming, or misrepresenting your product(adding rat poison), but you weren't. Customers wanted steroids, you sold them steroids and I assume you tried to do it in a safe manner to avoid hurting anyone.

There's no crime here. I only consider crime to be: murder, rape, assault, robbery or theft, damage to private or public property. That's it, if you haven't done any of these things then you have no crime.

To have someone in prison wasting their time on endless legal babble is a waste not only of your life, but of the tax payer that pays for the state to terrorize citizens.

 

[x666x]

The raid happened simultaneously to about 12 or more people (there were only ten on the indictment, so they raided a few people who were never indicted, which I didn't find out until years after). They orchestrated a simultaneous raid spanning many states, at about 5am EST.

I lived in a large apartment complex penthouse overlooking the Hudson River and New York City. For me, they simply knocked on the door, covered up the peephole so I couldn't see who it was, and I answered the door (It was 5am, I answered the door in an angry testosterone fueled manner... until I saw who it was). They tore the place apart. Going through everything. I didn't have a lot of stuff at my place. Just some personal use stuff, and I used to make Xanax, so I had about 100 of my Xanax pills too. Interestingly enough, I was never charged with that and it was never mentioned, no was the stuff I had for personal use. I was taken to the courthouse, put in a cell for hours, and bailed out later that day.

The financials gets interesting. They seized two of my bank accounts, only two accounts which were opened in the state in which I resided at the time. I had a bank account that I had just opened two weeks prior to being arrested, and they never saw that one. I had an account in another state, and they never found that one. One of the ways I used to collect money was through Greendot and Reloadit cards, and not one of those accounts was ceased or suspended. It was evident that a few months before the arrest, they checked for bank accounts only in the state in which I resided, and didn't look anywhere else for accounts. They also seized 3 houses. All in all, they got just about all of my money and assets. I wasn't smart about stashing any money. I was quite profligate. As I stated, I had a penthouse overlooking Manhatton, and I leased a brand new top of line Jaguar F-Type. They didn't come after me because I was flashy though, they came after me because of the events I have spoken of previously. In retrospect, I wish I would have stashed some of the money I had made over the years.

I will say that there is a strange mental dynamic involved in going from poor to affluent. It is a very profound change, and it is very difficult to navigate. I got much better at dealing with that change as time went on. Some of your relationships strengthen, while some of your relationships sour; some your fault, some not. With that being sad, I have learned a lot, and I believe I am a better person for the experience.

Thanks for the question.

I've always recommended people use PVC with high quality cement endcaps to stash a large wad of cash. A 4" pipe 3' long will hold a lot of $$$ and bury it deep in a place you can access if something heavy goes down.

No way would I have left money in banks. Stashing your wad into crypto wallets and etching the passwords into titanium and burying those as well. Stashing in foreign banks, driving to the next state over and opening an account to stash lots of money into different safe deposit boxes and bury those keys with passwords.

The mistakes where there, I'm an obsessive compulsive personality and I would have dedicated lots of time to figuring out how to make sure LE never got there hands on anything. I would have lived in a dump and drove a shit box car to make sure if the cops seized it, it would have cost more to have it crushed than it was worth.

I enjoy your posts, but as an anarchist I have an intense hatred for the legal system federal and state. I consider myself 100% pro-non-violent criminal, they are my personal heros.

 

[bdsupplements]

Don't you see the law as a bit hopeless.

If federal and state laws are written by people that are often unenlightened and ignorant of the topics they legislate, then what is the point.

I compare the written law like that of religion, 99.9999% of it is total bullshit that someone just pulled out of their ass and had the audacity to insist we take seriously.

Should someone like you that entered into business with free and willing customers spending what I would call small sums of money that was basically cash they had to burn on a service you provided through your reputation as a source. Then there is no crime. I could see if you robbing, harming, or misrepresenting your product(adding rat poison), but you weren't. Customers wanted steroids, you sold them steroids and I assume you tried to do it in a safe manner to avoid hurting anyone.

There's no crime here. I only consider crime to be: murder, rape, assault, robbery or theft, damage to private or public property. That's it, if you haven't done any of these things then you have no crime.

To have someone in prison wasting their time on endless legal babble is a waste not only of your life, but of the tax payer that pays for the state to terrorize citizens.

You have a very good mind for this my friend. You are absolutely right. The entire criminal justice system is fundamentally flawed from the ground up. I did break the law, I knew there were consequences, and I am accountable for those actions. With that being said, I did not hurt anyone, on the contrary, I used to received emails every day from people thanking me, telling me how my product and my service changed their lives for the better. Testosterone is one of the few controlled substances that your body naturally produces and is necessary for survival. Most of us walk around at sub-optimal levels. Many of my clients were people who had TRT prescriptions, but they used my service to get testosterone faster and at 1/8 the price. I was benefitting people. Harsh laws prohibiting controlled substances invariably cause more problems than they solve. We learned this before during Prohibition.