Patriot Act 2 (Highlights)

Mark Kerr

New Member
As some of you know, the Bush Administration is proposing a new Patriot Act deemed "Patriot Act 2" (officially called The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003) that will be permanent, as opposed to the current Patriot Act which expires soon. I have been reading up on this new proposed legislation, and wanted to point out some sections for everyone:

1. (Sect. 128 & 129) Government can issue a subpoena to a third party including doctors, friends, and parents to turn over information about you. It cannot be contended by you, only the party which is subpoenaed. Also, the subpoena is automatically gag-ordered, and at no point (including even after it is contended) can the third party inform you of the subpoena. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

2. (Sect. 404) Police/government can obtain a credit report about you without you being given notice (thus lifting the notice requirement) and without a court order. If investigated, it must only claim (and I quote) that it was "in connection with their duties to enforce federal law."

3. (Sect. 124) If police get an order to tap any communication device (phone, email, etc.) it can use that order to tap ANY OTHER communication device you have (phone, email, PDA, etc.) There is no more requirement of specificity. Also, if any tap order is given, police then have access to information stored in any communication device (PDA, Hard Drive, etc.) That means if police get an order to tap your phone, they can then intercept emails or even seize your property (computer, PDA). They are not required to show that it was even related to the crime. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

4. (Sect. 302, 303, 306) Police/government is allowed to collect DNA samples to those ONLY SUSPECTED of being terrorists or enemy combatants. No court order is required. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

5. (Sect. 312) Police are now allowed to conduct surveillance of Churches, Mosques, or Protestors, and even keep records of members. It also allows them to attend church meetings and activities. All of this is without a court ordered requirement.

6. (Sect. 201) Detainee Information Exempt from the Freedom of Information Act. Anyone detained for "suspect terrorist activities" has no right of public access to this information. If detained, your parents and family have no right to find out why. You just disappear. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

7. (Sect. 101) Individuals can be foreign powers. This allows an individual with no affiliation with a foreign government or a terrorist organization to be deemed a "foreign power" for government purposes. The purposes would include no need for court ordered surveillance, wire-tapping, record keeping or even detainment without need of public acknowledgment. Again, you just disappear and your family has no right to find out what happened.

Those are some of the Sections of the document so far. The more I read, I will continue to update this thread.
 
Wonderful. Pretty soon we'll have the army driving around town showing off their wares, we'll need to carry special papers with us always, be limited in travel areas, and lose all personal freedoms. Just great, we are now approaching...what, Germany circa 1935?
 
Bob Smith said:
Wonderful. Pretty soon we'll have the army driving around town showing off their wares, we'll need to carry special papers with us always, be limited in travel areas, and lose all personal freedoms. Just great, we are now approaching...what, Germany circa 1935?


It is the fascist police state that many have feared for decades.
 
Hogg said:
It is the fascist police state that many have feared for decades.
The idea of moving to Canada gets more and more appealing as each week passes. Or maybe some little resort town in Mexico where its warm. I can always watch hockey on satellite.

Gnight bro.
 
SH...T guys, that doesnt sounds good, i see black clouds in near future over my house
nwo


Mark Kerr said:
As some of you know, the Bush Administration is proposing a new Patriot Act deemed "Patriot Act 2" (officially called The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003) that will be permanent, as opposed to the current Patriot Act which expires soon. I have been reading up on this new proposed legislation, and wanted to point out some sections for everyone:

1. (Sect. 128 & 129) Government can issue a subpoena to a third party including doctors, friends, and parents to turn over information about you. It cannot be contended by you, only the party which is subpoenaed. Also, the subpoena is automatically gag-ordered, and at no point (including even after it is contended) can the third party inform you of the subpoena. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

2. (Sect. 404) Police/government can obtain a credit report about you without you being given notice (thus lifting the notice requirement) and without a court order. If investigated, it must only claim (and I quote) that it was "in connection with their duties to enforce federal law."

3. (Sect. 124) If police get an order to tap any communication device (phone, email, etc.) it can use that order to tap ANY OTHER communication device you have (phone, email, PDA, etc.) There is no more requirement of specificity. Also, if any tap order is given, police then have access to information stored in any communication device (PDA, Hard Drive, etc.) That means if police get an order to tap your phone, they can then intercept emails or even seize your property (computer, PDA). They are not required to show that it was even related to the crime. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

4. (Sect. 302, 303, 306) Police/government is allowed to collect DNA samples to those ONLY SUSPECTED of being terrorists or enemy combatants. No court order is required. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

5. (Sect. 312) Police are now allowed to conduct surveillance of Churches, Mosques, or Protestors, and even keep records of members. It also allows them to attend church meetings and activities. All of this is without a court ordered requirement.

6. (Sect. 201) Detainee Information Exempt from the Freedom of Information Act. Anyone detained for "suspect terrorist activities" has no right of public access to this information. If detained, your parents and family have no right to find out why. You just disappear. (This goes against 250 years of legal precedence).

7. (Sect. 101) Individuals can be foreign powers. This allows an individual with no affiliation with a foreign government or a terrorist organization to be deemed a "foreign power" for government purposes. The purposes would include no need for court ordered surveillance, wire-tapping, record keeping or even detainment without need of public acknowledgment. Again, you just disappear and your family has no right to find out what happened.

Those are some of the Sections of the document so far. The more I read, I will continue to update this thread.
 
I really do not see this passing in the House, or the Senate. Maybe just after 911, but now, with how much the Dems hate Bush, no way!
 
mark, in your professional opinion what are the chances of something like this getting passed? thanks ...
 
I have not read the act as of yet, but if it includes items such as the ones mentioned above then its chances of passing are very slim.
a.) the media would rip it apart
b.) Hopefully congress would see that it takes us decades backwards...
or at least:
c.) people in congress want to get re elected... and passing that act wouldnt help.

unless theres something in there about doing away with that confusing "voting" thing too...
 
esco said:
mark, in your professional opinion what are the chances of something like this getting passed? thanks ...
Well, I cant really say. It depends. If partisan politics take-over (as they usually do) then this bill doesnt have a chance. However, if something great happens that causes great national pride to grow, say for example we catch bin Laden or the Iraqi conversion to democracy goes well, then it will probably pass. The success of this bill depends upon the success of Bushs foreign policy (IMO).

mr_meanor said:
just curious what your source for this info is, I am interested in reading it as well
The source is the document itself. Just search for it in yahoo or google and read the bill yourself. I have printed it out and I have been going over it. Pretty unusual stuff.

Personally, when I read this I thought "WTF are they trying to do to this country?" I am a conservative and not a Bush-hater, but his unconstitutional attacks on our liberties are out of hand. Just look at the first Patriot Act...I think 4 parts when to the Supreme Court and 3 were declared unconstitutional, and the part that passed only did so because the Court deemed it "reasonable during times of defense." Which means the part that passed Constitutional scrutiny back then would not pass now because we are no longer being directly threatened by a foreign power. Basically, Bush doesnt care about what he does to our rights.
 
thanks mark. that act is a travesty and ruin our great country! on a conspiracy theory side of it, i hope the gov't wouldn't do something to to make it look like we need something like that passed, just to have total control! freedom wouldn't ring in this country with it!
 
people we have reached a crucial point in our country....the Govt no longer feels that its power is derived FROM the people, and it no longer serves the people.....this is the result of 50 or more years of people not voting, not caring....saying to themselves" as long as i have a job and a home its not that bad"

we as a nation need to do something, im not sure there is anyway to correct the situation, other than as Abraham Lincoln so eloquently stated" The ballot box, or the cartridge box" its getting closer and closer to the cartridge box, as this will be the final impediment to the complete fascist state...ie the seizure of the peoples guns.....this is OUR country....how far down are WE going to let it go?
 
I hope to god this being an election year that the democrats in office come out stongly against this and don't let it go anywhere
 
Bush and Ashcroft terrify me. I can't express strongly enough how pleased I'd be to see a libertarian president.
 
Bush propposes ammnesty to all illegal immigrants who can 'prove' they have a job, yet he immpliments plans to harass the citizens that are already here. Seriously, we need to get this guy out of office, someone here tell me ONE good thing he has done for this country, I dare you. I will agree his tax cuts are nice but they mostly go to the rich and he is just deficit spending with the war in Iraq plus poor budget planning to begin with, so the tax cut may end up hurting this country in the long run.
 
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