pct after 12 week 400 test cycle

[Hidemytits]

starting my first cycle soon, making sure my info is right before then. it is 300-400 test enanthane a week and 200 primo. from what i researched pct should be clomid and nolva 40 mg per day for a month then lower it to 25 a day for the rest of 2 weeks, finally waiting a month after this to draw blood. would this be effective? and if not any recommendations are appreciated, thank you.

 

[-Maui-]

Hi! Don't use nolvadrex, please! You need clomid.
One week 100mg ED, three weeks 50mg ED, two weeks 25mg ED.
You can add zinc and vitamin D.
Draw blood in the 3-4 week of PCT.
And remember the main thing. After the end of the cycle, you have to wait 3 weeks before starting PCT.

 

[Hidemytits]

Hi! Don't use nolvadrex, please! You need clomid.
One week 100mg ED, three weeks 50mg ED, two weeks 25mg ED.
You can add zinc and vitamin D.
Draw blood in the 3-4 week of PCT.
And remember the main thing. After the end of the cycle, you have to wait 3 weeks before starting PCT.

thank you for this advice, any specific reason not to use nolva? best regards

 

[-Maui-]

It's an old drug with a lot of side effects.
It's good for the price. That's all.

 

[marsupial]

Clomid is reported to have harsher side effects…and the sides for both are similar

 

[-Maui-]

Reported by who?

 

[marsupial]

Reported by who?

Anecdotes from people here and on Reddit. If you have harder peer-reviewed literature evidence on this topic I’m all ears

 

[-Maui-]

Anecdotes from people here and on Reddit. If you have harder peer-reviewed literature evidence on this topic I’m all ears

Found a few in a couple minutes:

Up-regulation of estrogen receptor by tamoxifen in human breast cancer - PubMed

These results demonstrated that tamoxifen up-regulates ER and PR in human breast cancer.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of tamoxifen on GH and IGF-1 serum level in stage I-II breast cancer patients - PubMed

Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction in response to GHRH stimulation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tamoxifen - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Likelihood score: C

Clomiphene - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Likelihood score: B

 

[marsupial]

Found a few in a couple minutes:

Up-regulation of estrogen receptor by tamoxifen in human breast cancer - PubMed

These results demonstrated that tamoxifen up-regulates ER and PR in human breast cancer.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of tamoxifen on GH and IGF-1 serum level in stage I-II breast cancer patients - PubMed

Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction in response to GHRH stimulation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tamoxifen - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Likelihood score: C

Clomiphene - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Likelihood score: B

First study is from 1993. Second merely correlates hormonal measurements rather than elucidates severity of side effects

As for the likelihood score comparison, that just hones in on drug induced liver injury, which is relatively rare and almost always reversible upon cessation. Doesn’t address the more common and immmediate SERM sides such as brain fog and eye/vision problems

If DILI truly was a common concern with low-normal doses of either SERM for their primary clinical purposes, tamoxifen would absolutely not be used at 20 mg/d for breast cancer treatment, and clomid would not be used for fertility induction

 

[marsupial]

All this said, if you somehow know you’re not prone to gyno and/or don’t care to risk it, then you could theoretically opt for clomid only. But if your nipples were ever sensitive on your cycle, that’s a dumb risk to take post cycle

 

[marsupial]

Lastly, OP, I’m not convinced that these high doses of nolva and clomid will make much of a difference in HPTA restart and gyno prophylaxis. I’d recommend starting with lower doses of the SERMs. There’s too much conflicting info online as of now as to what your doses should be exactly, so I recommend do your own research and decide what doses you feel comfortable with to attempt an HPTA restart with gyno prevention

Honestly you should’ve had a far better idea of your PCT plan before ever sticking a needle in yourself.

 

[-Maui-]

First study is from 1993

But not in the Stone Age )))

All this said, if you somehow know you’re not prone to gyno and/or don’t care to risk it, then you could theoretically opt for clomid only. But if your nipples were ever sensitive on your cycle, that’s a dumb risk to take post cycle

I would choose toremifene ;-)

Lastly, OP, I’m not convinced that these high doses of nolva and clomid will make much of a difference in HPTA restart and gyno prophylaxis. I’d recommend starting with lower doses of the SERMs. There’s too much conflicting info online as of now as to what your doses should be exactly, so I recommend do your own research and decide what doses you feel comfortable with to attempt an HPTA restart with gyno prevention

First of all, it was about PCT ))

From personal experience with tamoxifen, I was sicker and moodier than ever. Since then, phareston and sometimes clomid for PCT.