PCT epiphany

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

Im in third week of PCT and losing all my water gains, im starting to look like a DYEL again, and training for a 2000m race is not helping.

But this is not the point, i know it's the hormones, it must be the PCT medications interacting with my E receptors in the brain, nevertheless i have realized how badly i mistreated my ex-gf and i will ask her forgiveness and try to get back with her, when im not high on E of course.
I attribute all this to the PCT, since i broke almost a year ago with her, didn't think of her much and have been actively trying to get a new gf.
Just an anecdote.

I would also like to point, that the bad feelings of the first weeks of PCT are not new to me, when i was sitting down like 16 hours a day, not exercising, working all day, eating dogshit and sleeping poorly, it felt the same. Im pretty sure people often times off themselves just due to hormonal problems that can be completely fixed with a couple lifestyle changes.

I can understand now why people don't come off roids, i just value my balls too much, and i guess i don't give a fuck.

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

By the way, im having problems with nutrition during PCT, im eating 4500 calories every day 5-6 meals 40-40-20 with high fat days, which is more than i would eat for bulking on cycle, and im still losing weight. The thing is im losing fat and i guess some muscle too, the muscle is expected, but the fat?Im getting shredded, but i rather keep my gains, The food is 90% clean most of the time, but i have added some waffles with nutella post workout to ramp up the calories.

Im on HGH, caffeine/salbutamol as pre-workout, cardarine and tb-500+bpc. Should i drop anything?

Thanks!

 

[Themassterplan]

Well, for one, you’re keeping yourself shutdown with the cardarine. No matter how many DYEL’s on YouTube tell you that SARMS aren’t suppressive, they are, so drop the PCT drugs or the cardarine, up to you. Jumping off a bulk on AAS and jumping into, what I’m assuming is a high amount of cardio since you’re training for a race was a bad move as well. That’s why you’re losing your gains. The main thing though is that if you’re looking like a regular bro 3 weeks after a cycle clearly shows that you have no idea what you’re doing. You need to skip the drugs and do ALOT more reading.

 

[Test_Subject]

By the way, im having problems with nutrition during PCT, im eating 4500 calories every day 5-6 meals 40-40-20 with high fat days, which is more than i would eat for bulking on cycle, and im still losing weight. The thing is im losing fat and i guess some muscle too, the muscle is expected, but the fat?Im getting shredded, but i rather keep my gains, The food is 90% clean most of the time, but i have added some waffles with nutella post workout to ramp up the calories.

Im on HGH, caffeine/salbutamol as pre-workout, cardarine and tb-500+bpc. Should i drop anything?

Thanks!

You’re taking a suppressive compound during PCT?

That’s completely counterproductive. SARMS are suppressive. Anyone who tells you that they aren’t is either trying to sell you SARMS or is retarded.

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

You’re taking a suppressive compound during PCT?

That’s completely counterproductive. SARMS are suppressive. Anyone who tells you that they aren’t is either trying to sell you SARMS or is retarded.

Well, for one, you’re keeping yourself shutdown with the cardarine. No matter how many DYEL’s on YouTube tell you that SARMS aren’t suppressive, they are, so drop the PCT drugs or the cardarine, up to you. Jumping off a bulk on AAS and jumping into, what I’m assuming is a high amount of cardio since you’re training for a race was a bad move as well. That’s why you’re losing your gains. The main thing though is that if you’re looking like a regular bro 3 weeks after a cycle clearly shows that you have no idea what you’re doing. You need to skip the drugs and do ALOT more reading.

Cardarine is for cardio enhancement, its not a SARM, it's a PPARδ (Peroxisome Proliferator-Activated Receptor) receptor agonist.
Im 6 kilos up in lean muscle, one minute down per km and leaner than when i started the cycle. i would prefer input from people who know what they are talking about.

 

[Test_Subject]

Cardarine is for cardio enhancement, its not a SARM, it's a PPARδ (Peroxisome Proliferator-Activated Receptor) receptor agonist.
Im 6 kilos up in lean muscle, one minute down per km and leaner than when i started the cycle. i would prefer input from people who know what they are talking about

You’re taking HGH, albuterol, caffeine and running a lot and wondering why you’re losing weight…

Settle down big guy. Is your PCT making you emotional again?

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

You’re taking HGH, albuterol, caffeine and running a lot and wondering why you’re losing weight…

Settle down big guy. Is your PCT making you emotional again?

Im in this for the running not to get "big", so i don't mind losing weight, although i don't want to lose muscle obviously, but i haven't found resources on what kind of training an athelete should do during PCT.
The thing is im on a somewhat big caloric surpluss and getting all my fat melted, the only things being different is PCT drugs (clomid+tamox) and cardarine.

So basically what i want to know, is if people had the same effects on similar protocols.

 

[Tmisatix]

Im in this for the running not to get "big", so i don't mind losing weight, although i don't want to lose muscle obviously, but i haven't found resources on what kind of training an athelete should do during PCT.
The thing is im on a somewhat big caloric surpluss and getting all my fat melted, the only things being different is PCT drugs (clomid+tamox) and cardarine.

So basically what i want to know, is if people had the same effects on similar protocols.

How do you look in the mirror? Those will contribute to weight loss however if your physique still looks good , I’d take it as a positive as this is indicative that your cortisol is probably under control. If your cortisol spikes in pct , you may lose muscle/gain fat

also , eating in a surplus and losing means your metabolism is in good shape. You may have to find your mew maintenance calories if you want to stop the weight loss, though.

you mentioned high e.... have you considered a low dose of AI in pct?

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

How do you look in the mirror? Those will contribute to weight loss however if your physique still looks good , I’d take it as a positive as this is indicative that your cortisol is probably under control. If your cortisol spikes in pct , you may lose muscle/gain fat

also , eating in a surplus and losing means your metabolism is in good shape. You may have to find your mew maintenance calories if you want to stop the weight loss, though.

you mentioned high e.... have you considered a low dose of AI in pct?

Thanks for the input, i have the AI but im not using any, i thought the clomid/nolva would be dealing with the high E issues. I have read about it, and i will give it a try. Im also not sure if im high E, but my dick and libido are dead, im emotional/depressed and i don't have appetite, im doing a GOMAD with proteins so i can keep the calories up.

 

[Jin23]

Thanks for the input, i have the AI but im not using any, i thought the clomid/nolva would be dealing with the high E issues. I have read about it, and i will give it a try. Im also not sure if im high E, but my dick and libido are dead, im emotional/depressed and i don't have appetite, im doing a GOMAD with proteins so i can keep the calories up.

That's the combined effects of serms and low test/dht/progesterone ...
But if you took the serms out of the equation it would be something like 70% better.

How long was your cycle? And what's your pct structure like?

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

That's the combined effects of serms and low test/dht/progesterone ...
But if you took the serms out of the equation it would be something like 70% better.

How long was your cycle? And what's your pct structure like?

10 weeks of test e 350mg/week + 40-60mg oxandrolone last 5 weeks + HCG 3 times a week.
I did my last test prop friday night-saturday. Last HCG shot on tuesday, and started clomid+nolva on thursday. Last oxandrolone pill on tuesday-wednesday.

Im better now, the problem was the first 2 weeks. Im still using the clomid+nolva but im cutting them this week, for a total of 4-5 weeks of serms.
This PCT crash was good for me though, sometimes you got to reach some kind of low to have some perspective on things. If you are fine all the time you just keep going.

 

[Jin23]

10 weeks of test e 350mg/week + 40-60mg oxandrolone last 5 weeks + HCG 3 times a week.
I did my last test prop friday night-saturday. Last HCG shot on tuesday, and started clomid+nolva on thursday. Last oxandrolone pill on tuesday-wednesday.

Im better now, the problem was the first 2 weeks. Im still using the clomid+nolva but im cutting them this week, for a total of 4-5 weeks of serms.
This PCT crash was good for me though, sometimes you got to reach some kind of low to have some perspective on things. If you are fine all the time you just keep going.

Well, you don't need clomid and tamox. That's old internet bro lore. Just one or the other is plenty. Especially for such a light cycle without 19nor's.

My pct is usually just tamox at 20/20/10/10. You really don't need much more then that. And clomid is the real mood killer. Clomid is comprised out of two isomers: enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. The latter acts like a stronger estrogen and is the one that is mostly responsible for the bad effects on mood. So, my advice, stop taking clomid, you really don't need it.

I don't however understand your cycle? You mentioned E but than said prop? How long after last shot of E have you started PCT? It takes around 3 to 4 weeks for E to properly clear out of your system so you can start PCT. Depends on the dosage and your metabolism. A larger dose will take longer than a smaller dose.

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

Well, you don't need clomid and tamox. That's old internet bro lore. Just one or the other is plenty. Especially for such a light cycle without 19nor's.

My pct is usually just tamox at 20/20/10/10. You really don't need much more then that. And clomid is the real mood killer. Clomid is comprised out of two isomers: enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. The latter acts like a stronger estrogen and is the one that is mostly responsible for the bad effects on mood. So, my advice, stop taking clomid, you really don't need it.

I don't however understand your cycle? You mentioned E but than said prop? How long after last shot of E have you started PCT? It takes around 3 to 4 weeks for E to properly clear out of your system so you can start PCT. Depends on the dosage and your metabolism. A larger dose will take longer than a smaller dose.

Ok, im stopping the clomid and keep the tamox EOD, i feel fine and my balls are full.
I have enclomiphene citrate, but i didn't notice any difference with the regular clomiphene, maybe it's just clomiphene citrate.
Prop for last 3 weeks, i was pinning daily test E, so 3 weeks was plenty of time to clear out everything. I did 50mg daily.

 

[Jin23]

Ok, im stopping the clomid and keep the tamox EOD, i feel fine and my balls are full.
I have enclomiphene citrate, but i didn't notice any difference with the regular clomiphene, maybe it's just clomiphene citrate.
Prop for last 3 weeks, i was pinning daily test E, so 3 weeks was plenty of time to clear out everything. I did 50mg daily.

Yeah, 3 weeks for 350mg is just enough time to clear out. For some it might be not enough though.

In any case, yeah, drop the clomid, especially if you are in your last week of pct. Taper down the tamox though, don't just cut it out at the end. Or use an type 1 ai. Rebound e2 is a real thing after pct.

 

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

Yeah, 3 weeks for 350mg is just enough time to clear out. For some it might be not enough though.

In any case, yeah, drop the clomid, especially if you are in your last week of pct. Taper down the tamox though, don't just cut it out at the end. Or use an type 1 ai. Rebound e2 is a real thing after pct.

I was going to do 25+10 for some days but took last dose of clomid and tamox today. I was just walking by the street at night and noticed scotoma or something very similar to it (like waves on the periphery of my vision):

Scotoma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Which is a side effect of clomid.
Im going to start using exemestane tomorrow, i guess thats a type 1 steroidal AI. Got to check the dosage.

 

[Demondosage]

Often times the PCT protocol can be worse than simply taking time off due to the drug interactions with your brain chemistry. Just tough it out man, and remember that adequate time off is the best PCT