PCT is pure BS after all ?

[BouleauBoulot]

I've read a bit about it, from what I understand it's nothing but HCG and a SERM/AI.

Why not just take HCG during the cure to prevent testicular atrophy due to lack of LH, then stop the cure + HCG and possibly take a real suicidal AI (not a serm like clomid) like exemestan in case the estrogens would be too high at the end of treatment and would slow down the return of LH ?

Clomid does absolutely nothing except artificially increase gnRH production by antagonizing estrogen receptors in the pituitary gland. The increase in LH and therefore testosterone therefore stops once you stop clomid, and it doesn't really matter anyway because the goal is simply for the pituitary to restart normal production of gnRH and the testicles respond well enough to regain normal testosterone levels.

The only answers I got were average low IQ bodybuilders who arrogantly contradicted me without any biochemical explanation. I just have the impression that everyone follows out of habit, without really knowing why, a delirium of stupid bodybuilders who don't understand biochemistry.

I spoke to an endocrinologist recently, if a patient has testicular atrophy after many years of trt or steroids, all he does is add something like 500ui of HCG eod, and the testicles gradually come back to normal normal functions, while on TRT. Obviously LH is still at 0 but the pituitary extremely quickly resumes normal production of gnRH in the event of cessation of testosterone signaling or downstream hormones.

 

[edjohn88]

PCT is pointless if you’re going to go back on TRT, but if you have good natural levels and just want to try one cycle, its healthiest to PCT back to life with nothing extra.

 

[Nilatac]

PCT is pointless if you’re going to go back on TRT, but if you have good natural levels and just want to try one cycle, its healthiest to PCT back to life with nothing extra.

No one does just one cycle. Eventually he will be back on even if the original plan was not to take steroids ever again.
And then he do another cycle and then another and then he will get on trt by need or because he sees that being off sucks,strength decline, your look is getting worse as time goes by. Is a vicious cycle.

Before you start steroids ask yourself if this is the lifestyle for you and if you are ok with doing a injection once/week for the next 30-40 years.
Just one cycle to see how it is that's a fairy tale

 

[kosp]

I have never felt worse than on serms, they may spike TT but feel like an ass, after coming off serms everything returns to normal.

 

[lukiss96]

I wouldn't say it's pointless, at least first few cycles one should ideally come off and recover, especially if he's younger.

It helps to build discipline to re learn how to be natural again after feeling what it's like being enhanced.

If after those few cycles one is ready to go again, then possibly considering cruising instead of coming off. Not to mention cruise dosage is very broad and one mans cruise in another mans blast sort of.

Thing is everyone should come off at least once, because you never know what situation you will face in your life, maybe you will have to for one reason or another. Coming off after years of bnc is life changing for the worse experience that some people can't even handle.

 

[Jin23]

I've read a bit about it, from what I understand it's nothing but HCG and a SERM/AI.

Why not just take HCG during the cure to prevent testicular atrophy due to lack of LH, then stop the cure + HCG and possibly take a real suicidal AI (not a serm like clomid) like exemestan in case the estrogens would be too high at the end of treatment and would slow down the return of LH ?

Everybody who's smart takes hcg during their cycles. This is common practice, you aren't discovering nothing new here.

Taking an Ai instead of a serm though, ... this is going backwards, specifically, in to the land of unnecessary side effects and health deterioration. Crushing estrogen systemically in order to prevent it from binding to ER's in select key brain areas is using an A bomb to silence the Japanese - instead of a few carefully targeted tomahawks.

Who df resurrected this moronic thread. Just let it die please.

 

[klokke23]

Doesn't the HARLEM study show that serms as a pct drug are pointless? That your test levels recover just as fast without the serm.
Have you read it @Jin23 ?

 

[destined4gr8ness8]

Doesn't the HARLEM study show that serms as a pct drug are pointless? That your test levels recover just as fast without the serm.
Have you read it @Jin23 ?

It was a horribly designed study and I would take their conclusion with the smallest grain of salt.

They allowed participants to control their cycles and PCT, not to mention obtain drugs "through their usual channels." The clinic did not prescribe the cycle or PCT. Realistically the 80 patients who did PCT in the study could've gotten their PCT from different UGLs, research chemical companies, etc... so how can you know if what they even took was actually HCG, clomid, or tamoxifen? You can't. Now, if they provided PCT and it was a pharmaceutical grade that was tested for purity/potency prior to administration it would be a much different story.

 

[GuerillaPete]

In my opinion the point of pct was lessen the hormonal fluctuations when quitting steroids.
Lets say your testosterone levels on cycle where 5000 and you stop you are shut down until the testosterone goes down enough that your body starts producing again .
Because your testicles where atrophied it will take long time without the hcg and the serms to start producing and you go from high levels of test to no levels of test and that is bad for the mental and also your body.
Its hard to train in this state and most gains where lost .
So in the other scenario with pct after you stop the testosterone you start the hcg.
You use hcg while your clearing the testosterone you resolve the atrophied testicles problem.
Once the test is cleared you start serms.
You could just use the hcg and call it quits you would still recover but by adding the serms you bring your levels up fast so you can still train and not lose your mind and gains.
After this its easier to recover from a testosterone level of 1000 from the serms then the levels you where on cycle.
Once you quit the serms you still have to wait for your body to produce LH and FSH now that the serms are not stimulating their production .
This is why people say its not necessary to pct but i think its good because it lessens the highs and lows to some extent and gives a softer landing .
I also prefer to switch to an ai when done with serms but some people are afraid of crashing estrogen but that does not happen without exogenous testosterone administration .

 

[mochul]

In my opinion the point of pct was lessen the hormonal fluctuations when quitting steroids.
Lets say your testosterone levels on cycle where 5000 and you stop you are shut down until the testosterone goes down enough that your body starts producing again .
Because your testicles where atrophied it will take long time without the hcg and the serms to start producing and you go from high levels of test to no levels of test and that is bad for the mental and also your body.
Its hard to train in this state and most gains where lost .
So in the other scenario with pct after you stop the testosterone you start the hcg.
You use hcg while your clearing the testosterone you resolve the atrophied testicles problem.
Once the test is cleared you start serms.
You could just use the hcg and call it quits you would still recover but by adding the serms you bring your levels up fast so you can still train and not lose your mind and gains.
After this its easier to recover from a testosterone level of 1000 from the serms then the levels you where on cycle.
Once you quit the serms you still have to wait for your body to produce LH and FSH now that the serms are not stimulating their production .
This is why people say its not necessary to pct but i think its good because it lessens the highs and lows to some extent and gives a softer landing .
I also prefer to switch to an ai when done with serms but some people are afraid of crashing estrogen but that does not happen without exogenous testosterone administration .

So a better idea would be to use hcg as a replacement for LH until the exogenous testosterone leaves the body ultimately. Let's say it takes one month for dosages above 350mg. Use Hcg 500iu eod for one month and then taper down, just like how the body regulates testosterone production.

 

[GuerillaPete]

So a better idea would be to use hcg as a replacement for LH until the exogenous testosterone leaves the body ultimately. Let's say it takes one month for dosages above 350mg. Use Hcg 500iu eod for one month and then taper down, just like how the body regulates testosterone production.

Thats how the oroginal pct was just more aggressive with the hcg and folowed by serms.
You can use this drugs many ways to jumpstart the system.
I personally like the hcg->serm->ai one.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I’ve personally never done pct. I knew the road that I was taking it was my choice.
After the first Blast I cruised for sometime then blast again.
I come completely off from time to time but not more than a month.
When come completely off the only thing I notice is I shrink down everything else’s is normal libido erections.
I use hcg from time to time but not religiously.

 

[VenomYo]

bleh. theres no need to come off or pct. life isnt worth living without roids

 

[mochul]

bleh. theres no need to come off or pct. life isnt worth living without roids

Bang om. Test u every two weeks shouldn’t be difficult.

 

[MaxGainz]

I'm gonna do PCT like Pete says and I'm only gonna do one cycle.

I want my 3 years of gains in a few months and after that normal T levels will sustain me and I'll be good and ripped and happy.

Surfing, improved disc golf throws, healthy eating, low body fat, and babes galore. Won't get back on the juice till I'm in my 60's.

Why keep juicing? Only dudes care about super ripped dudes. Juice for the babes.

 

[OmL]

Testicles are overrated anyway.

 

[Toni222]

I'm gonna do PCT like Pete says and I'm only gonna do one cycle.

I want my 3 years of gains in a few months and after that normal T levels will sustain me and I'll be good and ripped and happy.

Surfing, improved disc golf throws, healthy eating, low body fat, and babes galore. Won't get back on the juice till I'm in my 60's.

Why keep juicing? Only dudes care about super ripped dudes. Juice for the babes.

pretty sure every1 had that same idea when starting "i'll just do one cycle", soon you will realise just how foolish you were to think that

 

[grey]

It was a horribly designed study and I would take their conclusion with the smallest grain of salt.

They allowed participants to control their cycles and PCT, not to mention obtain drugs "through their usual channels." The clinic did not prescribe the cycle or PCT. Realistically the 80 patients who did PCT in the study could've gotten their PCT from different UGLs, research chemical companies, etc... so how can you know if what they even took was actually HCG, clomid, or tamoxifen? You can't. Now, if they provided PCT and it was a pharmaceutical grade that was tested for purity/potency prior to administration it would be a much different story.

Yeah, that isn't a study at all... it is a creative writing piece.