PCT Questions about HCG

[jewberg]

so i just finished up my second real 12 wk cycle (750mg Test Cyp /wk, 250 iu HCG e3d, 12.5mg Aromisin eod, 1.25mg finasteride ed; switched to test propionate for the last 3 weeks to avoid having to wait on esters to clear)

all went well, had fantastic gains. Had standard acne and high bp at times, and definitely saw more testicular atrophy this time than last time. barely noticed last time, really paid attention this time and got much flatter and slightly less circumference, but though length pretty much stayed the same.

last cycle i did 600mg Test C for 14 wks and used aromasin eod and 500iu HCG/wk. then for PCT, i mostly followed the power pct protocol, but misunderstood some things. i took 1500iu HCG EOD for 20 days while waiting on cyp to clear, and then took 50mg clomid and 20 nolva ed for 3o days, then nolva 20mg for another 15. seemed to recover great last time, felt fine and productive all but maybe 5 days, no sexual issues, though the gym was definitely harder. During that HCG blast my nuts plumped up (felt like blueballs), and seemed to get back in gear pretty fast

So the plan this time was to start the HCG blast 2days after last test prop pin and start PCT 2 days later (running the HCG, clomid, and nolva concurrently for the beginning). 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva this time.

so i went on a trip and forgot my HCG, so i did not get to start the blast when planned, but started my PCT drugs as planned. I have been on Clomid and nolva for 7 days now and have not had any HCG since i was on cycle. i now have access to HCG and could start, but i didnt think it would make sense to time the blast at this point since i already started PCT drugs.. Please advise

I took HCG during cycle, so many people will probably say i dont need to take any for PCT at all, but i just remember the way my nuts plumped up from it last time, and since there was more atrophy this time i just want to do everything i can to increase my chances at a good recovery.

please let me know what you think would be my best course of action, if i should just continue on the nolva/clomid and forget the PCT HCG, or start it now, or anything better you might have in mind. I really appreciate it!

 

[Mac11wildcat]

3 weeks + 2 days isn’t close enough to the elimination period of Cyp IMO...

You’re taking 750mg of Cyp. The time for that to exit your system is somewhere around 40 days. Not to mention you’ll actually be increasing your test dose above 750 when the prop overlaps the residual Cyp assuming you hit 750/week with the prop.

The HCG should be carried until there is no appreciable exogenous test left in your system.

 

[jackthegripper2]

Test C half life is 8days according to the literature in pharm grade gear I have.

 

[jackthegripper2]

Taking hcg while on pct drugs is counter effective as you are raising lh or fsh levels synthetically meaning your body has no need to start creating it itself.

 

[jewberg]

thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it..

looking back at my calendar, i was actually on test Prop for the last 32 days , so i guess that put me a little better off. used https://steroidcalc.com/ to estimate approximate elimination times and time the C to P transition to avoid bib peaks/valleys during that week

I know the logic behind not taking HCG with PCT drugs, it makes sense to me which is why i did it that way last time. last time i took it while waiting on esters to clear before starting PCT, as most suggest.

What had me considering doing it a different way this time was :

#1 the shorter elimination time of Prop, and

#2 seems like most of the doctor recommended PCTs (including the "Power PCT" documentation and posts where people say what a doctor with this specialty Put them on for their PCT) suggest using HCG and Clomid/nolva ( https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Steroids-Doctor-in-London-Good-PCT-m5551832.aspx , Power PCT Protocol )

i know #2 is counterintuitive to what we would expect to see by suppressing natural LH production during a time when we want it to reboot... but just based on those Dr's advice, i figured it might be worth trying , especially since with this cycle there was no 20 day HCG window while waiting for ester to clear like there was last time

either way, i was unable to start the HCG while traveling so i just started the clomid and nolva (@ 100mg clomid, 20 nolva).. i have access to HCG now, but i now i am 12 days into clomid/nolva so i dont know if it would make any sense at all to use it at this point..

definitely feeling a big crash this PCT compared to last one, probably partially from the sharp decline vs the steady (P vs C).. last time i felt fine all through pct, and my nuts plumped up pretty much as soon as i started the HCG blast, felt slightly crashed about 2 weeks AFTER PCT last time, but this time i feel really sluggish and weak only 12 days into PCT. testicular atrophy is not reversing as fast as it did last time, no "blue balls" feeling i had during pct last time

might be a mental thing, but seems like the lack of HCG (either pre-pct post-cycle, or consecutively with PCT drugs DURING PCT) has made a big difference in how i feel.. might not have made a difference, but i think it would have. still dont know if it makes any sense to use it at this point though, so i have just stuck with the 100mg clomid + 20mg nolva daily

 

[jackthegripper2]

thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it..

looking back at my calendar, i was actually on test Prop for the last 32 days , so i guess that put me a little better off. used https://steroidcalc.com/ to estimate approximate elimination times and time the C to P transition to avoid bib peaks/valleys during that week

I know the logic behind not taking HCG with PCT drugs, it makes sense to me which is why i did it that way last time. last time i took it while waiting on esters to clear before starting PCT, as most suggest.

What had me considering doing it a different way this time was :

#1 the shorter elimination time of Prop, and

#2 seems like most of the doctor recommended PCTs (including the "Power PCT" documentation and posts where people say what a doctor with this specialty Put them on for their PCT) suggest using HCG and Clomid/nolva ( https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Steroids-Doctor-in-London-Good-PCT-m5551832.aspx , Power PCT Protocol )

i know #2 is counterintuitive to what we would expect to see by suppressing natural LH production during a time when we want it to reboot... but just based on those Dr's advice, i figured it might be worth trying , especially since with this cycle there was no 20 day HCG window while waiting for ester to clear like there was last time

either way, i was unable to start the HCG while traveling so i just started the clomid and nolva (@ 100mg clomid, 20 nolva).. i have access to HCG now, but i now i am 12 days into clomid/nolva so i dont know if it would make any sense at all to use it at this point..

definitely feeling a big crash this PCT compared to last one, probably partially from the sharp decline vs the steady (P vs C).. last time i felt fine all through pct, and my nuts plumped up pretty much as soon as i started the HCG blast, felt slightly crashed about 2 weeks AFTER PCT last time, but this time i feel really sluggish and weak only 12 days into PCT. testicular atrophy is not reversing as fast as it did last time, no "blue balls" feeling i had during pct last time

might be a mental thing, but seems like the lack of HCG (either pre-pct post-cycle, or consecutively with PCT drugs DURING PCT) has made a big difference in how i feel.. might not have made a difference, but i think it would have. still dont know if it makes any sense to use it at this point though, so i have just stuck with the 100mg clomid + 20mg nolva daily

Shit man youre definitely at a crossroads! I would say its to late in my OP. But you know your body and what it needs. This whole game is so user to user-dependent so take people advice with a grain of fuckin salt. I know its bad coming off which is why most guys never do but would rather just come down to a trt dose for a season so to say. That being said you know as well as I do that taking the hcg right now is putting a bandaid on your LH levels which will eventually drop again when hcg is dropped and your body will have to reboot!

 

[jewberg]

exactly! glad you understand where im coming from

i think i will probably stick with the clomid/nolva only for the rest of PCT, then get blood work and maybe do HCG afterward if needed...

starting to feel a little bit better but not nearly as smooth as my first PCT was..

 

[jackthegripper2]

exactly! glad you understand where im coming from

i think i will probably stick with the clomid/nolva only for the rest of PCT, then get blood work and maybe do HCG afterward if needed...

starting to feel a little bit better but not nearly as smooth as my first PCT was..

WE live and we LEARN but we have to use the resources we have available to us so we can learn from other mistakes. It could all be in your head as well. Shits such a damn head game!

 

[Worf]

You did take a larger clomid dose this pct. This may help without the additional hcg. Clomid can blow your balls up with doses like that. Most guys dont even use hcg with pct. I always liked blasting it during ester clearance time before SERMS