warmachine79
New Member
anyone know what effect this will have on my aas levels?? is it really worth the concern since?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
plasma donation on aas?
- Thread starter warmachine79
- Start date
ChaseQ
New Member
opcorn:
Considering blood plasma is where the protein is and hormones are protein bound, the answer is yes. In fact it would probably make for a good immediate diminishment of levels. Also making less proteins available for binding.
They pull something like a liter on a trip. This takes processing of about ten batches which may be about half a unit of total blood ea (eyeball guess)..
Plasma restores very quickly. You can donate that much twice in a week safely. Some "plasma heads" who make a living at it work between two centers and double up even. I am guessing it would diminsh somewhat. Maybe 1/10th of circulating on a trip I would guess...
I am not sure the extent (percentage) that various steroids are protien bound. I think significantly.
On my way out theories. Consider that if the blood letting in the old days to cure ills (which it did in ways) was related more so to the plasma content release, rather than the red cells, it would be a hell of a good way to move out some poison sicks....
They pull something like a liter on a trip. This takes processing of about ten batches which may be about half a unit of total blood ea (eyeball guess)..
Plasma restores very quickly. You can donate that much twice in a week safely. Some "plasma heads" who make a living at it work between two centers and double up even. I am guessing it would diminsh somewhat. Maybe 1/10th of circulating on a trip I would guess...
I am not sure the extent (percentage) that various steroids are protien bound. I think significantly.
On my way out theories. Consider that if the blood letting in the old days to cure ills (which it did in ways) was related more so to the plasma content release, rather than the red cells, it would be a hell of a good way to move out some poison sicks....
The amount is essentially negligible.
E.g., if giving or receiving a liter of blood with say 5000 ng/dL total testosterone, that works out to 50,000 nanograms, which is 50 micrograms, of testosterone.
50 micrograms is only 1/20th of a milligram, which is no big deal.
E.g., if giving or receiving a liter of blood with say 5000 ng/dL total testosterone, that works out to 50,000 nanograms, which is 50 micrograms, of testosterone.
50 micrograms is only 1/20th of a milligram, which is no big deal.
NOT to contradict the MASTER. I have great respect for Bill.!
- Keep in mind that the body holds about 6 liters of bloood.
- (1) Deciliter = 1/10th of a liter.
- So there are 60 deciliters of blood in the body at a time.
- (1) Nanogram is (1) billionth of a gram OR 0.0000000001 Gram
- So 5000 nanograms = 0.000005 Grams OR 0.00000000.5 Milligrams - AND per 1/10th of a liter.
- So .000005 grams X 60 deciliters is 0.000030 grams total T in the body
- Thats 1/10,000th of a gram total in the body at a time.
- Again there are 6 liters total in the body at one time.
- So you have removed 1/6th of total hormones and nutrients OR capacity to carry/repletish.... - Isn't that 17%???[/B]
- Consider it can only be replenished as soon as the serum plasma returns, and this is not to say that just because blood volume has returned, that all the functional components have returned as well. I am not sure about that one.
- Seems like a really good way to cause a FORCED REPLACEMENT of vital enzymes and other. Or a good way to loose them - considering...
I have done this math before and I am sure I am always off a decimal or two, one way or the other. Bill's math looks correct, but he is discounting the percentage of overall volume/capacity.
Consider if the human body goes through 10mgs of test per day, and a 17% diminishment in volume is achieved. You could argue that the testicles would simply increase production, or the test would come out of fat to compensate, but how could it when you have removed the total holding capacity of the enzymes that make this happen. While serum may return to full levels in 2 days, did all the esterase enzymes, did ALL the proteins, Essential, non-essential, and the other 200 that comprise human DNA? Whats the turn around on those..
Also consider you can add all the test you want, but only so much can be held by the blood. Consider the whole point of steroid application is to achieve extra high levels, BUT REALLy you are only getting a small gain in actual processing, and that figure is equal to exactly how much your body can process, the rest is lost to "shrinkage".
I have argued for a long time that serum counts are worthless and should only be considered as "active blood reserves" as serum counts can only reflect moment in time. Consider TOTAL BLOOD HORMONEL LEVELS HAVE TO BE TURNED OVER EVERY 1/60th of a second to "burn" 10 mgs in a day. Here it is: 10.0 milligrams divided by 24 hours is .41 milligrams per hour - divided by 60 minutes is .00694 mgs per minute divided by 60 seconds is .000115 mgs divided by 60 is .00000011 mgs every 60th of a second. ( resembles unless I made bad error).
MY ARGUEMENT: HOW DOES THIS FIGURE HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH A SNAPSHOT SERUM MEASUREMENT? The body can be consuming it at different rates. Granted 10mgs a day is 10 mgs a day, but there is no way to tell the rate by the blood level. There is no way to tell how much TT is actually being processed based on the amount present in the blood when it is being turned over so fast. SERUM COUNT IS SIMPLY HOW MUCH EXTRA IS FLOATING AROUND EVERY 60th of a second. SERUM COUNT CAN ONLY REFLECT RATE OF CHANGE.
I digress.
Forget the math. All I am saying is that it is a realized 17% reduction in not only currently available testosterone, but a 17% reduction in the saturated blood's ability to carry more. and who knows if esterase enzymes restore fully in the two days it takes to restore the liter of plasma? So further, what cumulative effective reduction is actually achieved in 2 a week donations of plasma?
NOW considering the lightning fast turnover rate I described above, I am betting the body can simply IMMEDIATELY transfer the additional 17% testosterone simply by blood flow as a transfer rate this fast could easily make up a 17% deficit.. BUT - HOWEVER - So the real question is: Is the esterase enzyme in the plasma, and how fast does it replentish. If as fast as the plasma concentrations (2 days), THEN THERE WOULD ACTUALLY PROBABLE BE AN ALMOST ZERO NET LOSS IN TOTAL TT VOLUME METABOLIZED. So I may have corrected myself. But wasn't it fun!!!
Still, if the body can only DEMAND 10mgs of testosterone per day, DOESNT THIS PROVE HOW WORTHLESS TT SUPPLEMENTATION IS? And further it demonstrates that the effective result of SYN T administration is to provide a miniscule amount for additional Androgen OR ESTROGEN demands that are naturaly bottlenecked, by one or the other, in normal human production.
- Keep in mind that the body holds about 6 liters of bloood.
- (1) Deciliter = 1/10th of a liter.
- So there are 60 deciliters of blood in the body at a time.
- (1) Nanogram is (1) billionth of a gram OR 0.0000000001 Gram
- So 5000 nanograms = 0.000005 Grams OR 0.00000000.5 Milligrams - AND per 1/10th of a liter.
- So .000005 grams X 60 deciliters is 0.000030 grams total T in the body
- Thats 1/10,000th of a gram total in the body at a time.
- Again there are 6 liters total in the body at one time.
- So you have removed 1/6th of total hormones and nutrients OR capacity to carry/repletish.... - Isn't that 17%???[/B]
- Consider it can only be replenished as soon as the serum plasma returns, and this is not to say that just because blood volume has returned, that all the functional components have returned as well. I am not sure about that one.
- Seems like a really good way to cause a FORCED REPLACEMENT of vital enzymes and other. Or a good way to loose them - considering...
I have done this math before and I am sure I am always off a decimal or two, one way or the other. Bill's math looks correct, but he is discounting the percentage of overall volume/capacity.
Consider if the human body goes through 10mgs of test per day, and a 17% diminishment in volume is achieved. You could argue that the testicles would simply increase production, or the test would come out of fat to compensate, but how could it when you have removed the total holding capacity of the enzymes that make this happen. While serum may return to full levels in 2 days, did all the esterase enzymes, did ALL the proteins, Essential, non-essential, and the other 200 that comprise human DNA? Whats the turn around on those..
Also consider you can add all the test you want, but only so much can be held by the blood. Consider the whole point of steroid application is to achieve extra high levels, BUT REALLy you are only getting a small gain in actual processing, and that figure is equal to exactly how much your body can process, the rest is lost to "shrinkage".
I have argued for a long time that serum counts are worthless and should only be considered as "active blood reserves" as serum counts can only reflect moment in time. Consider TOTAL BLOOD HORMONEL LEVELS HAVE TO BE TURNED OVER EVERY 1/60th of a second to "burn" 10 mgs in a day. Here it is: 10.0 milligrams divided by 24 hours is .41 milligrams per hour - divided by 60 minutes is .00694 mgs per minute divided by 60 seconds is .000115 mgs divided by 60 is .00000011 mgs every 60th of a second. ( resembles unless I made bad error).
MY ARGUEMENT: HOW DOES THIS FIGURE HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH A SNAPSHOT SERUM MEASUREMENT? The body can be consuming it at different rates. Granted 10mgs a day is 10 mgs a day, but there is no way to tell the rate by the blood level. There is no way to tell how much TT is actually being processed based on the amount present in the blood when it is being turned over so fast. SERUM COUNT IS SIMPLY HOW MUCH EXTRA IS FLOATING AROUND EVERY 60th of a second. SERUM COUNT CAN ONLY REFLECT RATE OF CHANGE.
I digress.
Forget the math. All I am saying is that it is a realized 17% reduction in not only currently available testosterone, but a 17% reduction in the saturated blood's ability to carry more. and who knows if esterase enzymes restore fully in the two days it takes to restore the liter of plasma? So further, what cumulative effective reduction is actually achieved in 2 a week donations of plasma?
NOW considering the lightning fast turnover rate I described above, I am betting the body can simply IMMEDIATELY transfer the additional 17% testosterone simply by blood flow as a transfer rate this fast could easily make up a 17% deficit.. BUT - HOWEVER - So the real question is: Is the esterase enzyme in the plasma, and how fast does it replentish. If as fast as the plasma concentrations (2 days), THEN THERE WOULD ACTUALLY PROBABLE BE AN ALMOST ZERO NET LOSS IN TOTAL TT VOLUME METABOLIZED. So I may have corrected myself. But wasn't it fun!!!
Still, if the body can only DEMAND 10mgs of testosterone per day, DOESNT THIS PROVE HOW WORTHLESS TT SUPPLEMENTATION IS? And further it demonstrates that the effective result of SYN T administration is to provide a miniscule amount for additional Androgen OR ESTROGEN demands that are naturaly bottlenecked, by one or the other, in normal human production.
The thing is that the vast majority of testosterone in the body is not in the blood; the same is true of almost every or perhaps every nutrient.
In the case of testosterone, normal male production is many milligrams per day. I guess we could run a calculation, but as guesswork the amount of production lost from donating a liter of blood, given how little testosterone is in that liter, is in the amount of a minute or a few minutes' worth of production. A small difference in mood for a short period of time might make a bigger difference.
In the case of testosterone, normal male production is many milligrams per day. I guess we could run a calculation, but as guesswork the amount of production lost from donating a liter of blood, given how little testosterone is in that liter, is in the amount of a minute or a few minutes' worth of production. A small difference in mood for a short period of time might make a bigger difference.
The real question is the eventual recipient of the plasma! In other words, you should be telling those responsible for obtaining the plasma that you are taking AAS (or anything else, including supplements). It is unethical not to reveal this information.
warmachine79
New Member
in the lab i work at they dont really care about drugs since the half life normally wears off. They run a uring test in the plasma lab for 10 major drugs they care about..... but yes it would be considered unethical to some.
as far as plasma, If i inject 3x a weeks and just use 2 of those after each donation would that negate the effect or is it the carrier protiens where ill get screwed??
Im running tren and eq right now. with maint. hcg...
as far as plasma, If i inject 3x a weeks and just use 2 of those after each donation would that negate the effect or is it the carrier protiens where ill get screwed??
Im running tren and eq right now. with maint. hcg...
So what I really find scary is what they dont know is in the plasma. It seems to me that this is WHERE THE MONEY IS, in more ways than one. So all they are removing from it is the red cells primarily. Isn't this where HIV and everything else that means anything about what can be trasmitted is hiding, or deliverd via?
It also seems like a good what to "cleanse the blood", or at least for a moment considering a liter is 1/6th of the body's supply? I mean, I know that "plasma levels" return in a couple of days, but again I pose the question: What about the components? Perhaps not eveything comes back to spec in that period. Probably nothing to that but have to wonder.
It also seems like a good what to "cleanse the blood", or at least for a moment considering a liter is 1/6th of the body's supply? I mean, I know that "plasma levels" return in a couple of days, but again I pose the question: What about the components? Perhaps not eveything comes back to spec in that period. Probably nothing to that but have to wonder.
warmachine79
New Member
thanks for the response bbc. you really seem to have some good in put on mathematical computation. Im sure you know they do a full test on most of the serious diseases like aids when you donate. aas just isnt a concern i guess or they would add it to the list of tests. Hiv isn't really as big a concern as it used to be, the survival rate has gone up so signif. that you never hear about how deadly aids it anymore.
I really was hoping to get the extra cash for donating but i just dont know now. just dont wanna get to de-juiced is all.
thanks all.
I dont think you have a worry twice a week. Many a doc has funded his rent in med school by this method. There is no shame. You can even study there as it takes freaking 3-4 hours. And of course there is the "Freak-Show factor". Online they describe it as "the opportunity to meet many interesting people".. LOL.....
Donating plasma does not reduce red blood cells. In fact, you can watch them collect in a little plastic jug, right before they pump the red only right back into you. Kind creepy. The machine "spins out" the red cells so they are left behind. Everything else goes in they plasma container...
The only way to give red blood cells is to donate blood.
The only way to give red blood cells is to donate blood.
bigrond
New Member
and where is it that they pay for blood donations .ive been giving mine up for free .i didnt know they actually give money for it.
warmachine79
New Member
so i didnt some research, apparently they take roughly 2L of plasma out of you for each plasma donation if your are 200 lbs or over. The human body has about 3-4 liters worth of plasma in it pending on certain genetic factors. so they are taking anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of your plasma? wtf...so would this corralate to that much juice being sucked from your body? im running 1cc of tren on m/w/r right now.. id plan on taking a shot after each donation...what is everyones take on this?
thanks.
thanks.
easy there all. Its not like that at all. A big guy gives about a liter on a donation. The blood comes out and goes through this spinner that separates the plasma. It keeps going until there is about a cup of red concentrate in the collector catching the "reds" that the put back in. If you look in the liter plasma jug, it fills about a little more than 1/10th every round. So you go through this about 10-15 times total. Every time the blood cup is full everything stops and the red cells are pumped back in to start all over. The whole thing takes about an hour.
Obviously the method of wringing out plasma is primitive, and rightly so, as you dont want to remove all the plasma from the reds, or you would have a solid lump of crap that they could not put back into you. SO I am guessing it operates at about 50% efficientcy at removing plasma from blood concentration. So i am guessing there is plenty of plasma left in the cup of "reds: they pump back in..
So if you have 6 total liters of blood in your body, they remove (1) liter of plasma while returning all the red cells that were in there. I am guessing red cells make up about 15-25% of blood concentration. So you loose one total liter of liquid, no red blood cells, and the liter of plasma is supposed to fully regenerate in 2 days. Of couse my question would be do all of the components regenerate as well (enzymes, etc...) I wonder. But if you consider the rate at which hormones are metabolized, anything essential to steroid metabolism probably does replace in that time, and there is plenty of steroid remaining in DEPOT to fill the void. But it is kinda creepy as they pin your vein with a freeggin 17 GA. Those nurses are damn good at it too.
Obviously the method of wringing out plasma is primitive, and rightly so, as you dont want to remove all the plasma from the reds, or you would have a solid lump of crap that they could not put back into you. SO I am guessing it operates at about 50% efficientcy at removing plasma from blood concentration. So i am guessing there is plenty of plasma left in the cup of "reds: they pump back in..
So if you have 6 total liters of blood in your body, they remove (1) liter of plasma while returning all the red cells that were in there. I am guessing red cells make up about 15-25% of blood concentration. So you loose one total liter of liquid, no red blood cells, and the liter of plasma is supposed to fully regenerate in 2 days. Of couse my question would be do all of the components regenerate as well (enzymes, etc...) I wonder. But if you consider the rate at which hormones are metabolized, anything essential to steroid metabolism probably does replace in that time, and there is plenty of steroid remaining in DEPOT to fill the void. But it is kinda creepy as they pin your vein with a freeggin 17 GA
. Those nurses are damn good at it too.
warmachine79
New Member
I actually called down to the plazma center, they told me they will take roughly 2l from a person over 200lbs.
yeah i might risk it cause 3 donations will get me a new bottle of tren anyway
yeah i might risk it cause 3 donations will get me a new bottle of tren anyway
you know i used to be a total stoner and i donated blood frequently because the blood bus would come to my work. i always wondered if that would mess with someone getting my blood. good to know that my blood was okay! not that i really think a little THC in the blood would hurt anyone...
peace,
-billy
warmachine79
New Member
you know i used to be a total stoner and i donated blood frequently because the blood bus would come to my work. i always wondered if that would mess with someone getting my blood. good to know that my blood was okay! not that i really think a little THC in the blood would hurt anyone...
peace,
-billy
THC is one of the 10 drugs they test for on the panel. either you masked the drug effectively by some alt. means (as stoners do have many), or else the testing procedures being used were infective or the staff was poorly trained... Also just because you didn't hear from them they still may have banned you from donating blood to their org. lost of diff reasons.
I myself don't really see pot as a harmful agent.
I actually called down to the plazma center, they told me they will take roughly 2l from a person over 200lbs.
yeah i might risk it cause 3 donations will get me a new bottle of tren anyway
You will get paid about 50-100% more the first week, and thats it usually. Then down to 60$ for 2 trips a week. PERHAPS THEY ARE TALKING THE WEEKLY TOTAL FROM TWO TRIPS...?? I have carried the jug to the window. Its 1 liter tops.... So perhaps at 2wice a week for the full 60$, then yes they get 2 liters....
Weight is not that big a factor. They take just about as much from small girls. Maybe 20-30% less tops..
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