Please stop saying Anavar is a mild drug…

[dinfar1337]

All this is saying is that *androgen* therapy achieved that, when ran by "older men with low testosterone levels".

being a enhanced bodybuilder i would expect 0 or minimal visceral fat reduction from anavar.

4 pages later, you have to explain it again.

 

[adrenalytic]

@RockyP I feel like I get your point about this thread (maybe I'm wrong). Anavar can absolutely mess with lipids and probably other markers as well.

Some people will do labs and not be impacted or have a negligible impact maybe offset by ancillaries. Lucky bastards but I do not think this thread was specifically directed at them.

Some people will have fucked up labs and think they are still ok to take it...and that is their choice.

Some people will have fucked up labs, tell themselves their labs are ok in order to feel better about taking it or other drugs...and that is their choice

Some people are drug addicts and will take drugs regardless of the harm to themselves or others.

People are free to do what they want in this regard and the way I read your post was not directed at people who do labs and are not negatively impacted but rather at newcomers who might see all the hype about it being mild and go for it without thinking that "mild in relation to xyz" can still be bad for them.
If this forum is about harm reduction I think your post was meant to be aligned with that mentality. People just get defensive if they feel they are being called out even if they weren't but it's their perception that drives their actions.

At the end of the day, harm reduction is up to the individual. Lazy shortcut seekers will always find confirmation of their biases if not here, then somewhere else. Just like on the other end of it, the truly cautious and concerned will dig deep into the science to make an informed decision.

Leading a horse to water sometimes results in drowning.

 

[adrenalytic]

Do you think the outcome would have been any different, if they were given 70-100mg of test?

Funny you should ask. Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men - PubMed

 

[The Answ3r]

Fan fact: I ran Anavar at 50 mg a day for 7 weeks, and somehow my lipid profile came out better than before I even touched it. Either I’m built different, or my bloodwork decided to troll me harder than my ex.

 

[Banana Joe]

Funny you should ask. Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men - PubMed

I sam still unsure how applicable that is to someone, in his 20-40's, with a clean diet, vigorous exercising and running at least a generous TRT dose.

Subjects: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

I am all for being convinced to add 10-20mg of Var to my HRT+(+), I just can't see it yet.

 

[Tbaz192]

Cystatin C?

We all know that for high muscle mass, a creatinine calculated EGFR is not reliable. Why then would we use it to monitor kidneys?

4 weeks on 60 var and mine went up by 50 percent. However I think what people refer to as mild are sides that can be felt. I felt no difference even when it went up so much, whereas you probably feel an increase in bp or more if you did it with dbol or adrol.

Did not pull that at the time

 

[SunnyInAZ]

Using old stock of primo or you still buy it somehow?

I have still have a very small amount of raws from over a yr ago

 

[adrenalytic]

I sam still unsure how applicable that is to someone, in his 20-40's, with a clean diet, vigorous exercising and running at least a generous TRT dose.



I am all for being convinced to add 10-20mg of Var to my HRT+(+), I just can't see it yet.

Oh I fully agree. Unfortunately, these studies are typically concerned with treating people with health issues, not steroid abusers, so their control groups usually consist of less-than-healthy individuals in an age-range that would not apply to us. They also want measurable results so they tend to use fat people. I imagine trying to calculate fat loss in an already lean individual isn't quite as easy. Certainly better than rats I guess.

In any event, the person I was replying to asked for compelling evidence of oxandrolone's impact on visceral fat reduction (without qualifiers) so I provided it. I would say the results are at least intriguing if not compelling.

 

[OmL]

Says ‘stop calling it mild’ references 100mg day.

 

[Banana Joe]

Fan fact: I ran Anavar at 50 mg a day for 7 weeks, and somehow my lipid profile came out better than before I even touched it. Either I’m built different, or my bloodwork decided to troll me harder than my ex.

Ok, you just convinced me.
You think a higher dose would have been even more beneficial for your bloodwork? If so, how much higher would you recommend to me?

Taking anavar for weight loss for it being ‘mild’ when oral glps are a thing in ‘25 is wild to me

I have a very different POV on this. I can see myself taking Var for weight loss, Primo for controlling estrogen, Deca for my joints, Dbol for the uptick in overall mood.
This being paired with a very generous TRT, while claiming to not be running a cycle.

 

[SunnyInAZ]

lol this is exactly what I’m talking about. The blind leading the blind. those lipids values are not good at all. And sitting there for half the year is just laying down plaque in your arteries. Your LdL is 40% higher than normal and HDL is 40% lower than low normal. This is quite bad, and worse because it’s going on for months at a time. Just because they return to normal in 6 weeks after you stop doesn’t mean anything. Your risk for heart disease depends on total exposure to fucked up lipids like this. At the very least run a statin if you’re going to do that. You can get your LDL under 60 And still have your fun with the compounds.

Ok dumb fuck my wife and her moms side of family naturally run at over 135 LDL and both grandparents lived to over 100 and her mom gets drink everyday and is almost 80 and is in good health. I’m 47 and just had CT scan that showed absolutely 0 artery buildup and calcium score of 0. Now fuck off genius!!!

 

[SunnyInAZ]

Ok dumb fuck my wife and her moms side of family naturally run at over 135 LDL and both grandparents lived to over 100 and her mom gets drink everyday and is almost 80 and is in good health. I’m 47 and just had CT scan that showed absolutely 0 artery buildup and calcium score of 0. Now fuck off genius!!!

lol this is exactly what I’m talking about. The blind leading the blind. those lipids values are not good at all. And sitting there for half the year is just laying down plaque in your arteries. Your LdL is 40% higher than normal and HDL is 40% lower than low normal. This is quite bad, and worse because it’s going on for months at a time. Just because they return to normal in 6 weeks after you stop doesn’t mean anything. Your risk for heart disease depends on total exposure to fucked up lipids like this. At the very least run a statin if you’re going to do that. You can get your LDL under 60 And still have your fun with the compounds.

Only an idiot would get on a statin for 0 reason. LDL count alone isn’t a good reason…

 

[adrenalytic]

Only an idiot would get on a statin for 0 reason. LDL count alone isn’t a good reason…

Considering that LDL is the greatest predictor of a future CVE, explain your rationale that "LDL count alone isn't a good reason" for a statin.

 

[The Answ3r]

Ok, you just convinced me.
You think a higher dose would have been even more beneficial for your bloodwork? If so, how much higher would you recommend to me?

Definitely man, 50 mg is baby food. Real benefits kick in around 500 mg daily. At that point your lipid profile won’t just improve, it’ll evolve into a whole new species. Side effects? Just immortality.

 

[Mastedon]

LDL count alone isn’t a good reason…

LDL (thereof ApoB) is the exact reason I got on a statin. Not sure I understand your take.

 

[Tdeck81]

the person I was replying to asked for compelling evidence of oxandrolone's impact on visceral fat reduction (without qualifiers) so I provided it

And it’s much appreciated. Anyone that takes the time to read through it should come to realize it has limitations. How someone chooses to interpret and extrapolate the data is on them. Thanks again

 

[adrenalytic]

And it’s much appreciated.

Happy to help, bro.

it has limitations

As do all clinical studies that we're interested in. The fact is no one cares about how drugs impact steroid abusers except steroid abusers so there are not going to be any population studies that apply to us. But, as I alluded previously, human studies (regardless of demographics) are a far cry better than rodent studies, of which I've seen MANY here use as justification for their peptide addiction.

 

[Neolancer80]

Ok, you just convinced me.
You think a higher dose would have been even more beneficial for your bloodwork? If so, how much higher would you recommend to me?



I have a very different POV on this. I can see myself taking Var for weight loss, Primo for controlling estrogen, Deca for my joints, Dbol for the uptick in overall mood.
This being paired with a very generous TRT, while claiming to not be running a cycle.

There are less hepatotoxic drugs that will work better than var will for weight loss, but ofc everyone has the freedom to experiment. Var isn’t taken for the weight loss it’s for muscle preservation while on the cut.

 

[dinfar1337]

There are less hepatotoxic drugs that will work better than var will for weight loss, but ofc everyone has the freedom to experiment. Var isn’t taken for the weight loss it’s for muscle preservation while on the cut.

clearly not hepatotoxic, a 10 year badge in here reports better hdl better ldl on it! i will run it 200mg daily as my statin and you should too!

 

[Tdeck81]

Oxandrolone Insights: Unique Characteristics of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids – Part 7

Oxandrolone (Anavar) reduces abdominal fat, boosts strength via creatine synthesis, with anticatabolic effects but poses a dyslipidemic risk.

thinksteroids.com

Just adding the link to the thread since it pertains to the discussion