Police State Thread

Next they will be going after lemonade stands... Oh, wait...

Bound Brook cops stop teens seeking snow shoveling work

Sergio Bichao, @sbichao 5:55 p.m. EST January 29, 2015
Local law bans unlicensed door-to-door soliciting; police worried about 'state of emergency'

BOUND BROOK – School was closed for the blizzard that wasn't, but there was still enough snow on the ground that two Bridgewater-Raritan Regional High School seniors thought they could make a few extra bucks.

In the process, Matt Molinari and Eric Schnepf, both 18, also learned a valuable lesson about one of the costs of doing business: government regulations.

The two friends were canvasing a neighborhood near this borough's border with Bridgewater early Monday evening, handing out fliers promoting their service, when they were pulled over by police and told to stop.

The story was shared on a popular Bound Brook Facebook group by a resident who saw Schnepf being questioned by police after coming to his door.

"Are you kidding me? Our generation does nothing but complain about his generation being lazy and not working for their money," he wrote on Bound Brook NJ Events' page. "Here's a couple kids who take the time to print up flyers, walk door to door in the snow, and then shovel snow for some spending money. And someone calls the cops and they're told to stop?"
Members of the group responded with support for the young entrepreneurs.

Bound Brook, like many municipalities in the state and country, has a law against unlicensed solicitors and peddlers.

Despite the rule, however, Police Chief Michael Jannone said the two young businessmen were not arrested or issued a ticket, and that the police's concern was about them being outside during dangerous conditions, not that they were unlicensed.

"We don't make the laws but we have to uphold them," he said Tuesday after reading some of the online comments about the incident. "This was a state of emergency. Nobody was supposed to be out on the road."

The teens took the incident in stride and said that police told them that they only needed permission to go door to door, but were still allowed to shovel walkways if residents called them.

"The cops were nice about it. They weren't jerks. They were trying to make sure everything is OK," Molinari said Tuesday.

In this borough, anyone selling goods and services door to door must apply for a license that can cost as much as $450 for permission that is valid for only 180 days. Nonprofits are exempt from the fee but must still apply for a permit.

Similar bans around the country have put the kibosh on other capitalist rites of passage, such as lemonade stands and selling Girl Scouts cookies.

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/about/canvass/stratton/stratton.htmlright to free speech. The American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey, for example, is suing New Brunswick over a similar law that prohibits panhandling and begging.

The Bound Brook ordinance does not apply to people going door to door for political reasons or to volunteer firefighters or real estate and insurance salesmen licensed by the state.

Jannone said an officer was dispatched to the street because a resident called to report a "suspicious person" with curly blond hair and a hoodie who was walking through yards.

A responding officer told the young men that it wasn't safe to be out and to come back during the day.

Jannone said his department has no interest in cracking down on kids who want to shovel sidewalks or driveways. The law was made for transient scam artists who prey on the vulnerable, he said.

"The spirit of the ordinance is to protect residents from gypsy activity. People will solicit door to door and target the elderly and get into their house," he said.

Janonne said the fliers that the two young men were handing out had their first names and cell phone numbers.

"People doing something illegal probably won't extend this much identifying information," he said.

The pair managed to get five jobs by early Tuesday afternoon, earning between $25 to $40 a house.

"We don't really bargain," Schnepf said. "We help some people out and get whatever they're willing to pay."
 
And another...

Did Main Line Cops Crack Down on Shoveling Scofflaws?
Wynnewood resident says yes. Lower Merion spokesperson says there’s “an investigation.”

By Victor Fiorillo | January 28, 2015 at 11:01 am

On Tuesday night, as emotions over the blown snow forecast and all the inconveniences it brought began to melt away, a new snow controversy erupted in Lower Merion Township on the stylish Main Line outside of Philadelphia.

Wynnewood resident Deborah Saldaña, a 49-year-old mother and Zumba instructor, posted a message to the Facebook group Lower Merion Community Network. In it, she explains that Lower Merion cops confronted two black kids who were shoveling snow outside her home, and that the cops told her father that anyone who wants to shovel someone else’s property needs to pay the township for a $50 permit. She suspects racial profiling.

Oh, we'll just let her explain in her own words, via Facebook:


I am annoyed. We hired two kids to shovel our sidewalk. I'm sick, my kid is 10 and he's been sick too, and my father is old. These were "African American" kids (one is actually Haitian), that have come to our house and shoveled before.

The cops stopped them behind our house (we are on a corner so they were almost done the sidewalk back there) and ran checks on them! They had them sitting down (there were not allowed to get up) for a long line of questioning. My father went out to see what was going on, and the cops said, to "go back in sir, we are conducting an investigation."

After about 20 minutes the kids continued shoveling. The cops came to the door to tell my father that from now on, "anyone" shoveling in Lower Merion, except if it's your own property, needs a permit from the township, a $50 permit that has to be valid if they check. We paid the kids and they were okay, a little shaken up.

I wonder if the same would have happened it if was white kids shoveling? I understand Lower Merion's concern with crime, and somehow I think the landscapers (monopoly) may also have something to do with the permits, since they need permits, and shovel snow in the off season, but I can't help thinking that it is profiling. I felt sorry for the kids. Earlier I saw the same thing happening near Haverford Ave as I went to the gym, police had 2 black kids that had been shoveling, sitting down in the snow, interrogating them. I think it's a bit extreme.​

By Wednesday morning, Saldaña's post had elicited more than 200 "likes" and over 550 comments. Many residents were incredulous, others suspicious, and eventually, the whole thing devolved into a messy argument, as they tend to do on community boards on Facebook.

Reached on Wednesday morning, Lower Merion Township spokesperson Thomas Walsh said an investigation into Saldaña's report had just begun, but assures us that people don't need permits to shovel sidewalks, steps or driveways for money in the township.
 
DEA plan to track drivers went much wider, new documents reveal
  • Officials tried to use license-plate readers to track travel patterns of Americans
  • ‘This could be a really amazing level of surveillance we’ve not seen before’
License-plate readers have fed hundreds of millions of records about motorists into a national database. Photograph: Barry Lewis/In Pictures/Corbis
Oliver Laughland in New York and Rory Carroll in Los Angeles

Thursday 29 January 2015 14.49 EST

Federal agencies tried to use vehicle license-plate readers to track the travel patterns of Americans on a much wider scale than previously thought, with new documents showing the technology was proposed for use to monitor public meetings.

The American Civil Liberties Union released more documents this week revealing for the first time the potential scale of a massive database containing the data of millions of drivers, logged from automatic license plate readers around the US.

As President Obama’s nominee for attorney general prepared for a second day of confirmation hearings in Washington, senior lawmakers also called on the US Justice Department to show “greater transparency and oversight”.

Further documents released by the ACLU on Wednesday show that Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) officials in Phoenix planned on “working closely” with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to monitor public gun shows with the automatic technology in 2009.

Although the DEA has said the proposal was not acted upon, the revelations raise questions about how much further the secret vehicle surveillance extends, which other federal bodies are involved and which other groups may have been targeted.

“The broad thrust of the DEA is to spread its program broadly and catch data and travel patterns on a massive scale,” Jay Stanley, a senior policy analyst with ACLU, told the Guardian. “This could be a really amazing level of surveillance that we’ve not seen before in this country.”

The ACLU warned that the buildup of a vehicle surveillance database, the existence of which first surfaced on Monday, stemmed from the DEA’s appetite for asset forfeiture, a controversial practice of seizing possessions at traffic stops and vehicle pullovers if agents suspect they are criminal proceeds.

Outgoing US attorney general Eric Holder opened a review into federal asset forfeiture earlier this month. Critics said the proposed reform merely “nibbled” at the problem.

“I think that a number of people would have questions about how the Department of Justice manages its asset forfeiture program,” Loretta Lynch, Holder’s would-be replacement, said before a Senate confirmation hearing on Wednesday.

In a letter to Holder on Wednesday, senators Chuck Grassley and Patrick Leahy wrote that they “remain concerned that government programs that track citizens’ movements, see inside homes and collect data from the phones of innocent Americans raise serious privacy concerns.”

Citing the ACLU’s first batch of documents, which were first reported by the Wall Street Journal, the senators referred to the attorney general’s flagging of the forfeiture problem. “Any program that is dedicated to expanding the Justice Department’s forfeiture efforts requires similar oversight and accountability,” they wrote.

Senator Leahy’s office did not respond to multiple requests for clarification from the Guardian on Wednesday and Thursday, but privacy advocates said the revelations raised serious questions that demanded answers from Washington.

Clark Neily, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, a Virginia-based libertarian law firm, said Americans would be disturbed to know that law enforcement’s quest for revenue impelled mass surveillance.

“It’s deeply concerning and creepy,” Neily said. “We’re Americans. We drive a lot.”

The ACLU followed up Monday’s tranche of DEA documents, which were obtained under Freedom of Information Act (Foia) requests, with the further documents revealing that federal agents planned to use automatic license plate readers to monitor attendees at gun shows in April 2009. The group said it did not know whether the car surveillance was still going on, or how wide it ever spread.

The heavily redacted documents show that DEA officers in Phoenix planned on “working closely” with ATF officials “in attacking the guns going to [redacted] and the gun shows, to include programs/operation with LPRs [license plate readers] at the gun shows.”

DEA administrator Michele Leonhart later told the Wall Street Journal that the plan was never implemented and was “only a suggestion”.

The Department of Justice, which encompasses the DEA, did not respond to a further request for clarification from the Guardian.

The perception that an average citizen’s car could be monitored upon entering or leaving a gun show – or any other lawful assembly – infringed upon civil rights, said Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.

“It would be chilling,” Olson said. “You could think twice about exercising that right.”

The latest redacted responses left many questions unanswered, said Stanley, the ACLU analyst. “We just happened to get that tidbit about the gun shows. Whether they targeted other groups we just don’t know. That’s the problem. We’re like archaeologists trying to read a scrap of bone and build a picture of the whole organism.”

The license-plate readers have fed hundreds of millions of records about motorists into a national database, the first round of ACLU documents show. If license plate readers, also known as LPRs, continued to proliferate without restriction, and the DEA held ldata for extended periods, the agency would soon possess a detailed and invasive depiction of people’s lives, the ACLU has warned.

Officials have publicly acknowledged they track vehicles near the Mexican border to combat drug trafficking.

According to DEA documents, the primary goal of the program was to seize cars, cash and other assets belonging to criminals. However, the database’s expansion “throughout the United States”, as one email put it, also widened law enforcers’ capacity for asset forfeiture.

The revelation that asset forfeiture was linked to mass surveillance could unite progressives and conservatives, Olson said. “At some point left and right come together.”

Neily, the Institute for Justice attorney, said government assurances about surveillance safeguards “varied tremendously from reality”.

The ACLU noted that other law enforcement bodies have used license plate readers to monitor public events in the past. In 2009 the Virginia state police collaborated with the US secret service to monitor license plates at President Obama’s inauguration and campaign rallies for then vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin. The ACLU also questioned why documents proving the gun show proposal’s cancellation were not returned in the Foia request.

The revelations highlight the risks federal agencies endure as they implement widespread scale surveillance technology to fight crime.

Further documents included in the most recent publication, show the DEA believe elements of the national LPR database has “verified defendant statements, tracked fugitives, solved a gang related homicide, identified vehicles involved in vehicular homicide and used to injure CBP [Customs and Border Protection] checkpoint officers” as well as identified routes used by criminals in drugs and weapons smuggling.
 
We've been bitching and whining about the untethered growth and control over the people by this government for a long long time. "Unintended Circumstances" a book written back in 1996 after the murders at Waco and Ruby ridge was nice to reread and vicariously get the revenge that we will never have. We'll just keep on complaining and shaking our fists at them.
Be sure and get involved in the elections "your vote counts" :rolleyes:
 
We've been bitching and whining about the untethered growth and control over the people by this government for a long long time. "Unintended Circumstances" a book written back in 1996 after the murders at Waco and Ruby ridge was nice to reread and vicariously get the revenge that we will never have. We'll just keep on complaining and shaking our fists at them.
Be sure and get involved in the elections "your vote counts" :rolleyes:
You wrote "Unintended Circumstances"?
 
You wrote "Unintended Circumstances"?
NO NO heady muscle. But I was very much involved in the pro-people, anti government tyranny and militia movement during those times. We were termed constitutionalist, among other things. I followed the Weavers assault and later the Waco slaughter,among other things as they happened. I was pro military. I spent many hours in college classes as the only proponent of our involvement in Nam (around 71 and 72).
 
NO NO heady muscle. But I was very much involved in the pro-people, anti government tyranny and militia movement during those times. We were termed constitutionalist, among other things. I followed the Weavers assault and later the Waco slaughter,among other things as they happened. I was pro military. I spent many hours in college classes as the only proponent of our involvement in Nam (around 71 and 72).
Man,
I meant WHO wrote "Unintended Circumstances"? That is what a twelve hour day and a couple glasses of wine get you. Sorry about that. lol

That is some incredible actions you were involved in. We must have some of the same heroes. I would love to hear more.

"Nuclear weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human family, and the earth itself.

"Peacemaking is not only a central characteristic of the Gospel, peacemaking is the greatest need of the world today. We are the daughters and sons of God, and that means we are called to be peacemakers."
Philip Berrigan
 
Man,
I meant WHO wrote "Unintended Circumstances"? That is what a twelve hour day and a couple glasses of wine get you. Sorry about that. lol

That is some incredible actions you were involved in. We must have some of the same heroes. I would love to hear more.

"Nuclear weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human family, and the earth itself.

"Peacemaking is not only a central characteristic of the Gospel, peacemaking is the greatest need of the world today. We are the daughters and sons of God, and that means we are called to be peacemakers."
Philip Berrigan
Wonderful intentions, noble thoughts.... If only it could be.
 
"Unintended Circumstances" a book written back in 1996 after the murders at Waco and Ruby ridge was nice to reread and vicariously get the revenge that we will never have. We'll just keep on complaining and shaking our fists at them. Be sure and get involved in the elections "your vote counts" :rolleyes:

I find this post interesting because I think it shows the thought process involved in your subscribing to the opinions and ideas of paranoid, conspiratorial and crank websites. It also seems to explain why you often post anti-American articles but don't consider yourself anti-American.

But I have to ask: From whom do you seek revenge? Who are the "they" to which you refer?

You clearly have an 'us versus them' mentality. I'm trying to understand why you feel so disenfranchised by your government that you seem unaware, or are unwilling to accept, that your government is you and you are your government. You're clearly a bright and thoughtful person but you're a defeatist. Your government isn't a dictatorship - it can only do what the people give it the power to do - yet you discount the only way to limit that power with your sarcasm about the value of voting.

I think the target of your ire is misplaced. Your quarrel is really with your fellow citizens who don't vote the way you want, not with the government they elect. The Walt Kelly quote "we have met the enemy and he is us" seems lost on you and those of your ilk. Why do you overlook that fact when talking about revenge? Or do you?
 
All due respect to everyone, I was hoping to keep this thread non-political. Just facts about the tactical force that is used by OUR Government and Police forces against citizens of the US.

I don't think posting this information is anti-American or proving any evil they do. Just facts. These things happen and sometimes these situations are excessive and brutal for no apparent justifiable grounds. Every citizen of this country should know these things that the MSM does not show or explore.

CNN, MSNBC, ABC and FOXnews are all prevaricators. They are creating a false world with yellow journalism. Don't follow sleep while are liberties are taken away.
 
I find this post interesting because I think it shows the thought process involved in your subscribing to the opinions and ideas of paranoid, conspiratorial and crank websites. It also seems to explain why you often post anti-American articles but don't consider yourself anti-American.

But I have to ask: From whom do you seek revenge? Who are the "they" to which you refer?

You clearly have an 'us versus them' mentality. I'm trying to understand why you feel so disenfranchised by your government that you seem unaware, or are unwilling to accept, that your government is you and you are your government. You're clearly a bright and thoughtful person but you're a defeatist. Your government isn't a dictatorship - it can only do what the people give it the power to do - yet you discount the only way to limit that power with your sarcasm about the value of voting.

I think the target of your ire is misplaced. Your quarrel is really with your fellow citizens who don't vote the way you want, not with the government they elect. The Walt Kelly quote "we have met the enemy and he is us" seems lost on you and those of your ilk. Why do you overlook that fact when talking about revenge? Or do you?

OH CBS...you wear me out with your accusations. First of all rereading the book took me back to a time when an FBI sniper shot an unarmed mother holding a child in her arms through her head. You can read the trial transcript. Gerry Spence was the attorney defending Randy Weaver(Pro Bono). It was murder CBS. Murder. Ron Horiachi was the sniper and was put on the witness protection program and that's where he's been to this day. There are still a lot of old Nam vets ( Randy Weaver was a former Green beret) that would still like to know where he is, just to say hello. The attorney at Randy Weavers trial did not have to call ONE witness. All he had to do was cross examine the prosecutors wittnesses. The government indicted itself. The government paid Randy a million dollars (or so) for the wrongful death of Vicky. I watched more than 80 women and children burn to death in their church (compound as the government liked to call it) in Waco Texas. Take a little time and read the interview with the jury forewoman in the surviving Branch Davidians trial. The consensus of the jury was that the wrong side was on trial. The book "Unintended Consequences" was written in response to the total feeling of helplessness in the face of a tyrannical and out of control federal government at that time. What's changed CBS. I never said this government was a dictatorship, although I believe some on this board might not agree. The executive Branch has more power and influence than I think you are aware of. I'm certainly not upset because people don't vote the way I would like. I could give a shit less of who they vote for, as Iv'e said, twiddly dee or twiddly do. It makes no difference in the bigger picture. And you can stop referring to people as my fellow citizens and the government as MY government. I rescinded my federal citizenship over twenty years ago. I'm under their control because I'm living here. I was born here. But being born here does not make you a federal citizen. It's a complicated legal subject and I don't think you want to take the time to look into it. YES, you can rescind your citizenship, but I wouldn't recommend it unless your independently wealthy .
All that and more bring back a lot of bitter memories. You seem to believe only what you read or hear in the main stream news. There's a big world out there CBS and a lot going on. I'm afraid your living in la la land .
 
I find this post interesting because I think it shows the thought process involved in your subscribing to the opinions and ideas of paranoid, conspiratorial and crank websites. It also seems to explain why you often post anti-American articles but don't consider yourself anti-American.

But I have to ask: From whom do you seek revenge? Who are the "they" to which you refer?

You clearly have an 'us versus them' mentality. I'm trying to understand why you feel so disenfranchised by your government that you seem unaware, or are unwilling to accept, that your government is you and you are your government. You're clearly a bright and thoughtful person but you're a defeatist. Your government isn't a dictatorship - it can only do what the people give it the power to do - yet you discount the only way to limit that power with your sarcasm about the value of voting.

I think the target of your ire is misplaced. Your quarrel is really with your fellow citizens who don't vote the way you want, not with the government they elect. The Walt Kelly quote "we have met the enemy and he is us" seems lost on you and those of your ilk. Why do you overlook that fact when talking about revenge? Or do you?

In theory, I agree with you. The government has only the power offered up by the people. Unfortunately, in reality how it plays out, is far different than theory. My government is no longer me nor am I it. That has been corrupted by money in the political arena. What value does voting have if voting is rigged? I'm not saying every vote is but I think it naive to think none aren't.
 
I find this post interesting because I think it shows the thought process involved in your subscribing to the opinions and ideas of paranoid, conspiratorial and crank websites. It also seems to explain why you often post anti-American articles but don't consider yourself anti-American.

But I have to ask: From whom do you seek revenge? Who are the "they" to which you refer?

You clearly have an 'us versus them' mentality. I'm trying to understand why you feel so disenfranchised by your government that you seem unaware, or are unwilling to accept, that your government is you and you are your government. You're clearly a bright and thoughtful person but you're a defeatist. Your government isn't a dictatorship - it can only do what the people give it the power to do - yet you discount the only way to limit that power with your sarcasm about the value of voting.

I think the target of your ire is misplaced. Your quarrel is really with your fellow citizens who don't vote the way you want, not with the government they elect. The Walt Kelly quote "we have met the enemy and he is us" seems lost on you and those of your ilk. Why do you overlook that fact when talking about revenge? Or do you?

CBS... Please define what YOU mean by "anti-American". I'm having a hard time figuring out where your coming from. And also while your at it, what do YOU mean by "anti semitic" . Please be specific. :)
 
This has got to be some kind of STAGE, or at least the media video which picked this up presents poorly as such. Clearly the rounds are "rubber" else he would have been mince meat flying around. I don't see where they shot him with a live round either. What I find most disturbing is the release of the dog. And not so much due to the man on the other end, but the cruelty to the dog being trained to be a lunatic... Still you have to wonder what possesses someone to wield a knife at cops. Just put the bastard down... And yes those cops are HUNGRY...:( Fukin cops are what the are..

Honestly,
I did had to skip the really disgusting parts. It was hard to watch. I posted this on another thread:

Google cop shots unarmed man Billings, Montana
 

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