post finasteride syndrome pct

[Peterson]

Hi guys,

I'm dealing with pfs (post fina syndrome) for 3 years now. From what I've read, a lot of bodybuilders who had crashes after a bad cycle have almost the exact same side effects as pfs people.

A lot of recoveries from pfs also happened with these people doing a cycle and/or a pct.

(My symptoms I'm still dealing with: almost zero libido, premature ejaculation, watery sperm, brain fog, no full erections) I had none of these before taking fina and was perfectly healthy.

One year ago I came in contact with a guy who also dealt with pfs and he tried arimidex and got completely cured from that. So I also tried it and I was also recovered but it only worked for one week. Afther that it didn't work even with high doses.

I also tried other things like herbs but arimidex was the only thing that really made a real and positive difference.

So I'd like to know what you guys think and suggest I'd do.

Thank for the help

 

[The Terminator]

Have you had any recent blood testing done? If not I highly recommend that. Get LH/FSH, T, free T, sensitive E, and since you used propecia DHT, and if you can afford it SHBG, and if $ is no issue you can check DHEA even but the others are more important. What about your ballz have they had noticeable atrophy?

If anastrozole helped you it could be that you either have low T and maybe imbalanced hormones. Either way the AI can increase T by lowering E your body would make more LH/FSH and so on.

 

[Peterson]

Have you had any recent blood testing done? If not I highly recommend that. Get LH/FSH, T, free T, sensitive E, and since you used propecia DHT, and if you can afford it SHBG, and if $ is no issue you can check DHEA even but the others are more important. What about your ballz have they had noticeable atrophy?

If anastrozole helped you it could be that you either have low T and maybe imbalanced hormones. Either way the AI can increase T by lowering E your body would make more LH/FSH and so on.

Thanks for replying. I didn't do any blood tests yet since it seems the values don't really matter with other people who have pfs, most of them have normal values but still have persistent side effects.

I don't think I have any ball atrophy.

These are my side effects I'm still dealing with:

- Very low libido (for me the worst side effect)
- No morning wood (Although I have nocturnal erections)
- Watery sperm (not as bad as before but still noticable)
- Premature ejaculation (could go as long as I wanted before fina)
- No full, strong erections
- Brain fog (also abit better than before though but still)
- Lethargic (probably also related to my libido, the drive to accomplisch something in my life has greatly diminished. But this has improved though)
- emotions are not as strong as before, more "cold blooded".

That is all, I think I'm a moderate, common case of pfs. (I'm 25 btw)

Before fina I remember shooting thick loads and getting hard from just looking at a hot girl with her clothes on. Impossible now.

Btw, could you read this story: Going back on Proscar... please weigh in - BaldTruthTalk.com ,this guy recovered using HCG and chlomid.

So you suggest I'd raise my test? What are the safest/best ways to do this?

Thanks for your time btw

 

[Gbro]

What he suggested was that you get blood work.

 

[Old]

Thanks for replying. I didn't do any blood tests yet since it seems the values don't really matter with other people who have pfs, most of them have normal values but still have persistent side effects.

I don't think I have any ball atrophy.

These are my side effects I'm still dealing with:

- Very low libido (for me the worst side effect)
- No morning wood (Although I have nocturnal erections)
- Watery sperm (not as bad as before but still noticable)
- Premature ejaculation (could go as long as I wanted before fina)
- No full, strong erections
- Brain fog (also abit better than before though but still)
- Lethargic (probably also related to my libido, the drive to accomplisch something in my life has greatly diminished. But this has improved though)
- emotions are not as strong as before, more "cold blooded".

That is all, I think I'm a moderate, common case of pfs. (I'm 25 btw)

Before fina I remember shooting thick loads and getting hard from just looking at a hot girl with her clothes on. Impossible now.

Btw, could you read this story: Going back on Proscar... please weigh in - BaldTruthTalk.com ,this guy recovered using HCG and chlomid.

So you suggest I'd raise my test? What are the safest/best ways to do this?

Thanks for your time btw

Like Terminator said, good to get blood tests. However you a right that usually the readings are fine (thus the manufacture trying to get out of lawsuit claims buy saying it is all 'psychological').

Your symtoms are moderate for PFS, as you noted. But that, combined with brief response with anastaride, you have good reason to hope.

You mention "cold blooded". That could be a natural bitterness to the problem. However, DHT metabolites interface with social neural circuits, D2 receptors being one of them. DHT improves social function. So it simply makes sense that response to a drug that suppresses DHT production would cause this. With PFS, the problem lingers long after finasteride was discontinued. It would seem that the brains plasticity gets rewired with unpleasant consequences. It is important to remember that success in sex is most dependent on DHT - See Contribution of dihydrotestosterone to male sexual behaviour. - PubMed - NCBI

Doing a PCT would not seem a harmful thing. If you actually take DHT and a smaller amount of progesterone, it might help. See this post: Finasteride [5ARI] Induced/Associated Effects

The problem with DHT is finding it. It isn't popular with bodybuilders since it doesn't build muscle well. And weight loss benefits are better with DHT derivatives (which might help). Also, there is undo fear about DHT due to prostate issues (more and E2 thing) and hair loss. But which is worse, mail-pattern-baldness, or sexual dysfunction?

These are just some thoughts.

 

[Peterson]

Like Terminator said, good to get blood tests. However you a right that usually the readings are fine (thus the manufacture trying to get out of lawsuit claims buy saying it is all 'psychological').

Your symtoms are moderate for PFS, as you noted. But that, combined with brief response with anastaride, you have good reason to hope.

You mention "cold blooded". That could be a natural bitterness to the problem. However, DHT metabolites interface with social neural circuits, D2 receptors being one of them. DHT improves social function. So it simply makes sense that response to a drug that suppresses DHT production would cause this. With PFS, the problem lingers long after finasteride was discontinued. It would seem that the brains plasticity gets rewired with unpleasant consequences. It is important to remember that success in sex is most dependent on DHT - See Contribution of dihydrotestosterone to male sexual behaviour. - PubMed - NCBI

Doing a PCT would not seem a harmful thing. If you actually take DHT and a smaller amount of progesterone, it might help. See this post: Finasteride [5ARI] Induced/Associated Effects

The problem with DHT is finding it. It isn't popular with bodybuilders since it doesn't build muscle well. And weight loss benefits are better with DHT derivatives (which might help). Also, there is undo fear about DHT due to prostate issues (more and E2 thing) and hair loss. But which is worse, mail-pattern-baldness, or sexual dysfunction?

These are just some thoughts.

Thanks for replying, I will get my bloodwork done in the near future.

It's interesting you suggest to take DHT, I also know one person who recovered with DHT supplementation. > How I Cured My Problem With Post-finasteride Syndrome

I'm also able to get DHT.

And do you think I need to apply DHT for the rest of my life?

 

[kosp]

Don't waste people time and bring blood work to the table.

 

[Peterson]

Don't waste people time and bring blood work to the table.

Try reading next time, I will in the near future.

To anyone reading, share your advice or experience with pfs or what you think may help. Thanks.

 

[TideGear]

Try reading next time, I will in the near future.

To anyone reading, share your advice or experience with pfs or what you think may help. Thanks.

How long did you use it and at what dose?

 

[The Terminator]

Thanks for replying. I didn't do any blood tests yet since it seems the values don't really matter with other people who have pfs, most of them have normal values but still have persistent side effects.

I don't think I have any ball atrophy.

These are my side effects I'm still dealing with:

- Very low libido (for me the worst side effect)
- No morning wood (Although I have nocturnal erections)
- Watery sperm (not as bad as before but still noticable)
- Premature ejaculation (could go as long as I wanted before fina)
- No full, strong erections
- Brain fog (also abit better than before though but still)
- Lethargic (probably also related to my libido, the drive to accomplisch something in my life has greatly diminished. But this has improved though)
- emotions are not as strong as before, more "cold blooded".

That is all, I think I'm a moderate, common case of pfs. (I'm 25 btw)

Before fina I remember shooting thick loads and getting hard from just looking at a hot girl with her clothes on. Impossible now.

Btw, could you read this story: Going back on Proscar... please weigh in - BaldTruthTalk.com ,this guy recovered using HCG and chlomid.

So you suggest I'd raise my test? What are the safest/best ways to do this?

Thanks for your time btw

I’d still get testing anyway even if others had similar issues with normal levels. I read the first post of that thread, will read the rest later when I have time. But his case sounded weird, he only got symptoms after stopping, I’d imagine if it caused problems he’d have them while on it. Anyway a pct won’t make things worse, might help, but I’d get the blood testing first so you know what’s going on. Like Old said having improvements on the AI was a good sign.

I’m not a 100% sure if PFS is real or imagined, could be something that affects some and not others. Either way I’m definitely too scared to ever touch it, I’ll just go bald and get a hair transplant if I can’t keep what I have. Dr asked if I wanted it but said it could cause “reduced sperm count, reduced ejaculate, ED..” so I was like nah I’m good. What I do know is they should try to figure it out.

 

[Old]

Thanks for replying, I will get my bloodwork done in the near future.

It's interesting you suggest to take DHT, I also know one person who recovered with DHT supplementation. > How I Cured My Problem With Post-finasteride Syndrome

I'm also able to get DHT.

And do you think I need to apply DHT for the rest of my life?

Cool you can get DHT. It's not available in US. Haven't seen it in UGLs lately but it used to be cheap (about twice T). Just some creams in Europe as your link showed. In the end he got a kilo from China, lol.

Don't know how long one would need it. If it is about the brain rewiring because of finasteride, then perhaps in time DHT will rewire things back. Its always a challenge to get hormone and neurotransmitters where they belong.

There are a few studies about using DHT as replacement therapy instead of T. One was 2 years duration. Didn't mention complaints about hair loss even though it was high dose (70mg/day). It didn't report about effects after the study. But perhaps this is getting off the topic.

 

[Peterson]

How long did you use it and at what dose?

Used it for 2 years then quit cold turkey. First year 1mg/EOD, second 1mg ED. I got side effects slowly.

I’d still get testing anyway even if others had similar issues with normal levels. I read the first post of that thread, will read the rest later when I have time. But his case sounded weird, he only got symptoms after stopping, I’d imagine if it caused problems he’d have them while on it. Anyway a pct won’t make things worse, might help, but I’d get the blood testing first so you know what’s going on. Like Old said having improvements on the AI was a good sign.

I’m not a 100% sure if PFS is real or imagined, could be something that affects some and not others. Either way I’m definitely too scared to ever touch it, I’ll just go bald and get a hair transplant if I can’t keep what I have. Dr asked if I wanted it but said it could cause “reduced sperm count, reduced ejaculate, ED..” so I was like nah I’m good. What I do know is they should try to figure it out.

I also thought PFS was real before I took it, I also trusted the official Merck studies, turns out those studies aren't to be trusted. A big article by reuters came out about this not so long ago. Also just check out there history, it's not the first time they alter study results, look up Vioxx. And more and more new studies are coming out supporting pfs. Last year for example post ssri syndrome was officialy recognized, and these ssri's are on the market far longer than fina, it takes time.

And PFS is weird, for example some have pfs after only one pill, others take years and some get side effects after stopping fina. It seems to destroy your hormonal balance, hard to say.

Cool you can get DHT. It's not available in US. Haven't seen it in UGLs lately but it used to be cheap (about twice T). Just some creams in Europe as your link showed. In the end he got a kilo from China, lol.

Don't know how long one would need it. If it is about the brain rewiring because of finasteride, then perhaps in time DHT will rewire things back. Its always a challenge to get hormone and neurotransmitters where they belong.

There are a few studies about using DHT as replacement therapy instead of T. One was 2 years duration. Didn't mention complaints about hair loss even though it was high dose (70mg/day). It didn't report about effects after the study. But perhaps this is getting off the topic.

Interesting, I will probably try this route.

Thank you guys for replying.

 

[The Terminator]

Used it for 2 years then quit cold turkey. First year 1mg/EOD, second 1mg ED. I got side effects slowly.

I also thought PFS was real before I took it, I also trusted the official Merck studies, turns out those studies aren't to be trusted. A big article by reuters came out about this not so long ago. Also just check out there history, it's not the first time they alter study results, look up Vioxx. And more and more new studies are coming out supporting pfs. Last year for example post ssri syndrome was officialy recognized, and these ssri's are on the market far longer than fina, it takes time.

And PFS is weird, for example some have pfs after only one pill, others take years and some get side effects after stopping fina. It seems to destroy your hormonal balance, hard to say.

Interesting, I will probably try this route.

Thank you guys for replying.

You definitely cannot trust pharmaceutical companies and their studies they fund where there’s a lot of bias. I only trust that their products are better quality than UGL equivalent. I was once given a tricyclic antidepressant, when I was on it I had zero libido. Guess I was lucky that once I came off it went back to normal but I was only on it for maybe 2 months. Because of that experience and the withdrawal from stopping cold turkey SSRI’s are something else I don’t wanna touch.

 

[The Terminator]

Thanks for replying. I didn't do any blood tests yet since it seems the values don't really matter with other people who have pfs, most of them have normal values but still have persistent side effects.

I don't think I have any ball atrophy.

These are my side effects I'm still dealing with:

- Very low libido (for me the worst side effect)
- No morning wood (Although I have nocturnal erections)
- Watery sperm (not as bad as before but still noticable)
- Premature ejaculation (could go as long as I wanted before fina)
- No full, strong erections
- Brain fog (also abit better than before though but still)
- Lethargic (probably also related to my libido, the drive to accomplisch something in my life has greatly diminished. But this has improved though)
- emotions are not as strong as before, more "cold blooded".

That is all, I think I'm a moderate, common case of pfs. (I'm 25 btw)

Before fina I remember shooting thick loads and getting hard from just looking at a hot girl with her clothes on. Impossible now.

Btw, could you read this story: Going back on Proscar... please weigh in - BaldTruthTalk.com ,this guy recovered using HCG and chlomid.

So you suggest I'd raise my test? What are the safest/best ways to do this?

Thanks for your time btw

Well after further reading that link the guy doesn’t seem to know much about clomid or hCG. Also I don’t like his attitude of hiding his protocol, I mean desperate guys are going to read that he used those meds and will just blindly use them. A lot of his facts were suspect, like idk where he got the idea that clomid or hCG is extremely dangerous and will cause permanent sterility lol. Seems like propecia is more likely to cause long lasting issues. But regardless of that his success is another good sign that you can one day be back to normal.

 

[Peterson]

Cool you can get DHT. It's not available in US. Haven't seen it in UGLs lately but it used to be cheap (about twice T). Just some creams in Europe as your link showed. In the end he got a kilo from China, lol.

Don't know how long one would need it. If it is about the brain rewiring because of finasteride, then perhaps in time DHT will rewire things back. Its always a challenge to get hormone and neurotransmitters where they belong.

There are a few studies about using DHT as replacement therapy instead of T. One was 2 years duration. Didn't mention complaints about hair loss even though it was high dose (70mg/day). It didn't report about effects after the study. But perhaps this is getting off the topic.

Btw, I was thinking about the DHT supplementation.

Can I make this into a typcial cycle? For example 1,2 monts on DHT and after that a PCT?

 

[kosp]

So where's the logic here? You cycle with Masteron or Proviron which are pure DHT, or take strong hormones blockers like SERMS or AIs, you come off, PCT and good to go.

But then you take some dick candies finasteride pills and fuck up everything?

 

[KL8209]

Hi guys,

I'm dealing with pfs (post fina syndrome) for 3 years now. From what I've read, a lot of bodybuilders who had crashes after a bad cycle have almost the exact same side effects as pfs people.

A lot of recoveries from pfs also happened with these people doing a cycle and/or a pct.

(My symptoms I'm still dealing with: almost zero libido, premature ejaculation, watery sperm, brain fog, no full erections) I had none of these before taking fina and was perfectly healthy.

One year ago I came in contact with a guy who also dealt with pfs and he tried arimidex and got completely cured from that. So I also tried it and I was also recovered but it only worked for one week. Afther that it didn't work even with high doses.

I also tried other things like herbs but arimidex was the only thing that really made a real and positive difference.

So I'd like to know what you guys think and suggest I'd do.

Thank for the help

Damn I hope you figure this out brother. Good luck!

 

[Peterson]

So where's the logic here? You cycle with Masteron or Proviron which are pure DHT, or take strong hormones blockers like SERMS or AIs, you come off, PCT and good to go.

But then you take some dick candies finasteride pills and fuck up everything?

Lol, why would I still take fina after all that? Of course I will never touch that poison again. Btw, I never did a typical bodybuilding AAS,.. cycle in my life.

And it's just a theory, some say a cycle/pct can restore or bring back balance to the HPTA axis. Atleast we know it helped quite some people who had pfs.

 

[Old]

So where's the logic here? You cycle with Masteron or Proviron which are pure DHT, or take strong hormones blockers like SERMS or AIs, you come off, PCT and good to go.

But then you take some dick candies finasteride pills and fuck up everything?

Glad you brought this up. DHT derivatives are NOT the same as DHT. There are just some similarities to DHT vs T. Perhaps the closest is primo, but again different.

This is a common mistake even with doctors and scientists. But anyone familiar with how molecules bind and activate to receptors (efficacy and affinity) as well as how and what they are converted to by metabolic processes - they know they are different (or at least should know).

In they bodybuilding world, each AAS has its own characteristics - why else use anything but T?

Btw, I was thinking about the DHT supplementation.

Can I make this into a typcial cycle? For example 1,2 monts on DHT and after that a PCT?

DHT will suppress just like any androgen. The 70mg/day dropped T to about 10% normal and E2 also drops as much. What kind to you have, cream or raw powder? (Not seen any esters though Italy used to have propronate version) Either one is basically gone in a day or so. Then you could proceed with PCT.

It would be a curious thing to try. Since any DHT will drop T, perhaps use 150 T with your dose? The whole thing is an experiment. But the 2 year study with DHT only had basically the same side effects of T (though there were some long term differences).

Lol, why would I still take fina after all that? Of course I will never touch that poison again. Btw, I never did a typical bodybuilding AAS,.. cycle in my life.

And it's just a theory, some say a cycle/pct can restore or bring back balance to the HPTA axis. Atleast we know it helped quite some people who had pfs.

Was going to ask if you did AAS. You say 'typical' ... did you ever just try something 'atypical'?

 

[kosp]

Lol, why would I still take fina after all that? Of course I will never touch that poison again. Btw, I never did a typical bodybuilding AAS,.. cycle in my life.

And it's just a theory, some say a cycle/pct can restore or bring back balance to the HPTA axis. Atleast we know it helped quite some people who had pfs.

I'd rather cover my head with coconut oil and fresh onion few times a week