Post PCT blood work

[kosp]

SERMS do NOT expedite natural HTPA recovery, as the latter takes TIME and
often sub-physiologic AAS levels.

Almost all users misunderstand the utility of PCT and the time required for
natural HTPA recovery, such that the adage time on equals time off is a reasonable approximation for most on this forum.

PCT enables chronic users to BRIDGE
an off cycle interval and maintain a physiologic TT level wo the use of AAS but in almost every instance a lower post SERM baseline TT level will develop once
the Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator is discontinued.

And the lower baseline TT level duration is dependent upon several factors such as; users age, the number of AAS cycled, their potency and dose etc.

Yet bc of SERM mediated side effectlts some users elect to run testosterone at legitimate TRT dosages rather than SERMS to achieve the same result, a physiologic TT level, between cycles.

The point, the only means of overcoming the suppressive effect of AAS on the
HTPA and restore NATURAL gonadal TT production is abstinence.

Jim

Ok, thanks.

How long without SERMS to have an accurate blood reading? Half life is 7 days

 

[kosp]

And @Dr JIM

Does Arimidex play a rol in recovery and fixing high ratio test-estradiol from serms?

 

[kosp]

I hardly believe SERMS don't expedite natural HTPA recovery.

 

[Dr JIM]

I hardly believe SERMS don't expedite natural HTPA recovery.

Thats not surprising knowing your beliefs are based upon PED forum bro speak rather than science.

Wanna KNOW what happens to infertile- hypogonadal males once SERMS are discontinued, their TT returns to pretreatment baseline!

Sorry kid-o

 

[kosp]

Thats not surprising knowing your beliefs are based upon PED forum bro speak rather than science.

Wanna KNOW what happens to infertile- hypogonadal males once SERMS are discontinued, their TT returns to pretreatment baseline!

Sorry kid-o

If your HTPA is really fucked of course no amount of SERMS will be miraculous, I am talking about healthy men who can recover, SERMS obviously accelerate this

 

[lshaw]

SERMS do NOT expedite natural HTPA recovery, as the latter takes TIME and
often sub-physiologic AAS levels.

Almost all users misunderstand the utility of PCT and the time required for
natural HTPA recovery, such that the adage time on equals time off is a reasonable approximation for most on this forum.

PCT enables chronic users to BRIDGE
an off cycle interval and maintain a physiologic TT level wo the use of AAS but in almost every instance a lower post SERM baseline TT level will develop once
the Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator is discontinued.

And the lower baseline TT level duration is dependent upon several factors such as; users age, the number of AAS cycled, their potency and dose etc.

Yet bc of SERM mediated side effectlts some users elect to run testosterone at legitimate TRT dosages rather than SERMS to achieve the same result, a physiologic TT level, between cycles.

The point, the only means of overcoming the suppressive effect of AAS on the
HTPA and restore NATURAL gonadal TT production is abstinence.

Jim

Hi Jim,
I am doing now my first cycle but I read a lot about AAS for the last 2 years, what you are saying goes against every single medical study that I read about AAS. I am not talking about bro science, but experiments with a control group with a good sample size. I could literally find hundreds links that says that HPTA restoration is reached with SERMS (and HCG before).
So my question is, do you have a link to a study that reinforce your opinion or are you basing your post on your anecdotal experiences?

 

[staynattybruh]

Hi Jim,
I am doing now my first cycle but I read a lot about AAS for the last 2 years, what you are saying goes against every single medical study that I read about AAS. I am not talking about bro science, but experiments with a control group with a good sample size. I could literally find hundreds links that says that HPTA restoration is reached with SERMS (and HCG before).
So my question is, do you have a link to a study that reinforce your opinion or are you basing your post on your anecdotal experiences?

Why don't you link the studies you supposedly claim to have read? I mean why would he even reply just because you claim to have seen hundreds of links that claim that SERMS expedite HPTA recovery.

 

[Dr JIM]

I am talking about healthy men who can recover, SERMS obviously accelerate this

Post the evidence and I’m not talking about PED forum anecdotes.

 

[Dr JIM]

Why don't you link the studies you supposedly claim to have read? I mean why would he even reply just because you claim to have seen hundreds of links that claim that SERMS expedite HPTA recovery.

Those who are genuinely interested in PED scientific evidence don’t need to ask me or anyone else to be their librarian, or hold hands to navigate Mesos evidence based citations, because the fact is many of the studies I’m referring to have been posted by Doc Scally or myself

But if you or anyone else are sincere and want to understand the effects of SERMS try searching the web for STUDIES on “clomiphene citrate and infertility” or “clomiphene citrate and male hypogonadism”.

Thereafter post the article and I’ll be glad to assist with its interpretation.

 

[staynattybruh]

Those who are genuinely interested in PED scientific evidence don’t need to ask me or anyone else to be their librarian, or hold hands to navigate Mesos evidence based citations, because the fact is many of the studies I’m referring to have been posted by Doc Scally or myself

But if you or anyone else are sincere and want to understand the effects of SERMS try searching the web for STUDIES on “clomiphene citrate and infertility” or “clomiphene citrate and male hypogonadism”.

Thereafter post the article and I’ll be glad to assist with its interpretation.

Exactly my point. The burden of proof here was on him and all his proof was his word about all these studies claiming to do what your claiming to be not the case. I know alot of people these days hate and over use argumentum ad verecundiam but in this case I think it's important to realize your reputation on the forum and other helpful info you've contributed. If it were me, I would absolutely link the studies that I claim to have read that go against one of the most reputable person on the board.

I'm just not really sure how in the world people want to argue these sort of things based off a "traditional" method that recreational users have done for years. Just because it's been done for so long, hardly means anything and even less true compared to empirical evidence.

 

[Dr JIM]

Hi Jim,
I am doing now my first cycle but I read a lot about AAS for the last 2 years, what you are saying goes against every single medical study that I read about AAS. I am not talking about bro science, but experiments with a control group with a good sample size. I could literally find hundreds links that says that HPTA restoration is reached with SERMS (and HCG before).
So my question is, do you have a link to a study that reinforce your opinion or are you basing your post on your anecdotal experiences?

Oh an I’ve seen those links before also but once followed the final source leads to an op ed PED forum “guru”.

So heck yea Id LOVE to review even one such study bc, exclusive of a few anecdotal case reports, no clinical trials on the effects of SERMS on androgen induced hypogonadism have been published, to my knowledge

And I’ll add it’s unlikely research of this type will ever be conducted bc the involved drugs are used on a purely elective/recreational basis.

 

[kosp]

@Dr JIM

The most accurate proof I can provide you is myself. It's been already 9 days without SERMS. Would I have accurate blood reading now so I can show you? I know my test is not low, and still the cycle was longer than my time off

 

[staynattybruh]

@Dr JIM

The most accurate proof I can provide you is myself. It's been already 9 days without SERMS. Would I have accurate blood reading now so I can show you? I know my test is not low, and still the cycle was longer than my time off

Lmao. How do you know your test is not low without bloods?

 

[kosp]

Lmao. How do you know your test is not low without bloods?

The quality of training, body composition, libido, weights ... I know I am fine, no low test signs

 

[staynattybruh]

The quality of training, body composition, libido, weights ... I know I am fine, no low test signs

Oh oh right, so let's say you got bloods and it came back at 200 TT, high estro, overall generally out of the good market range. You'd be okay with that right ? I mean since you're not showing signs of low T and "feel" good.

 

[kosp]

Oh oh right, so let's say you got bloods and it came back at 200 TT, high estro, overall generally out of the good market range. You'd be okay with that right ? I mean since you're not showing signs of low T and "feel" good.

I don't know man I don't overthink that. I just cut off all drugs and now waiting the proper time to have an accurate blood reading and then forget about hormones

 

[nervje]

I don't know man I don't overthink that. I just cut off all drugs and now waiting the proper time to have an accurate blood reading and then forget about hormones

Did your symptoms get better when you stopped the serms?
Libido, strength, body aches...?

 

[kosp]

Did your symptoms get better when you stopped the serms?
Libido, strength, body aches...?

Yes I think I am good to go

 

[staynattybruh]

I don't know man I don't overthink that. I just cut off all drugs and now waiting the proper time to have an accurate blood reading and then forget about hormones

That's a good strategy. You know, taking drugs that change you're body chemistry but not to overthink the health outcomes.

Solid plan.

 

[kosp]

That's a good strategy. You know, taking drugs that change you're body chemistry but not to overthink the health outcomes.

Solid plan.

Man I am doing everything right and my body is responding well. If problems happen, I would pct like a lion until I am all good