PROPER TIME OFF?

[Skull]

After you have successfully completed your cycle and pct how long should you allow your body to rest before you cycle again? Does it matter the length an dose of your cycle? I've been told before that you need to stay off just as long as you were on. He said that away it gives your receptors time to recharge so you can get even bigger your next cycle. Is this true or just someone talking a bunch of horse shit? The main reason I'm asking is because I would like to begin the next cycle ASAP. I can't help it I love to juice bros!!!

 

[Boilermech]

Time on + pct = time off
Just be patient brother. All good things come to those who wait.
I know it sucks though brother, but it's best for your body to run by itself for a while.

 

[Docd187123]

The time on and time off thing is just a general guideline that allows time for your HPTA to regain homeostasis. It's not scientific and not guaranteed to keep you recovering.

The idea that your receptors will recharge with time off is funny at best. Don't listen to the person who told you that.

Your choice on when to juice and when to stay off just understand the risks involved with your decision. You should fully understand them and be willing to accept the consequences.

 

[4leafclover]

Receptors don't recharge, but Dave Palumbo posted several studies in one of his seminars where more receptors became available after cessation of all steroids to future binding. The study indicated that the further someone "crashed", that the more receptors were made available to uptake testosterone as a response to being deprived of test. Thus "recharging" for the next cycle if you want to use such a word.

 

[4leafclover]

http://www.aboard.in/showthread.php?t=30597


Dave Palumbo on Post Cycle Therapy:
This restoration may take upwards of 2-4 weeks. I suggest staying off all synthetic anabolic steroids for at least 6-8 weeks following the ingestion of the last Clomid pill. This “break” should give your liver cells adequate time to detoxify themselves and your muscle cell receptors enough time to, once again, become receptive to anabolic stimuli.

 

[Docd187123]

I don't see anywhere where he referenced any studies in that link.

 

[4leafclover]

I said it was in one of his seminars, in the quote you see he says the become receptive to anabolic stimuli. I can't link a seminar, because you had to be there... It was a one time deal there docd...

 

[4leafclover]

Just because I know you're going to be a douche, here is a quote I found of him talking about it.

http://houseofbodybuilding.com/forum/index.php?topic=769.50

DP= Dave Palumbo

Dave Palumbo Q&A

QUESTION: It is my understanding that when on gear for a while your receptors clog up and if there are no more, you cannot absorb any gear you use. There for people take as much time OFF, as they have been ON.

Is this true? I have done a few cycles over the past few years, and I feel that my OFF time has been quite short. I recently took 6 weeks OFF, after quite a long cycle, and I'm curious as to the reality of all this receptor talk.



DP: Steroidal receptors are found in the nucleus of cells. When stimulated, they signal the cell to increase protein synthesis and increase the amount of muscle volume. A good analogy to help you visualize what's going on is to imagine that steroidal compounds are specific "keys" that fit into various nuclear receptors (the "keyholes'). Once this steroidal molecule unlocks the receptor, protein synthesis is stimulated. What happens when high amounts of anabolic steroids are utilized for long periods of time is that the NUMBER of receptors (keyholes) diminishes because the body is preventing itself from being overstimulated, and even though you still have lot of anabolic substance present (keys), they can't "work" to maximize protein synthesis because of the lack of these receptors. When you go OFF cycle, the body doesn't know that you're now lacking anabolic hormones. It thinks there aren't enough receptors present and thus it starts to upregulate (increase) the number of steroidal receptors.

 

[Docd187123]

Just because I know you're going to be a douche, here is a quote I found of him talking about it.

http://houseofbodybuilding.com/forum/index.php?topic=769.50

DP= Dave Palumbo

Dave Palumbo Q&A

QUESTION: It is my understanding that when on gear for a while your receptors clog up and if there are no more, you cannot absorb any gear you use. There for people take as much time OFF, as they have been ON.

Is this true? I have done a few cycles over the past few years, and I feel that my OFF time has been quite short. I recently took 6 weeks OFF, after quite a long cycle, and I'm curious as to the reality of all this receptor talk.



DP: Steroidal receptors are found in the nucleus of cells. When stimulated, they signal the cell to increase protein synthesis and increase the amount of muscle volume. A good analogy to help you visualize what's going on is to imagine that steroidal compounds are specific "keys" that fit into various nuclear receptors (the "keyholes'). Once this steroidal molecule unlocks the receptor, protein synthesis is stimulated. What happens when high amounts of anabolic steroids are utilized for long periods of time is that the NUMBER of receptors (keyholes) diminishes because the body is preventing itself from being overstimulated, and even though you still have lot of anabolic substance present (keys), they can't "work" to maximize protein synthesis because of the lack of these receptors. When you go OFF cycle, the body doesn't know that you're now lacking anabolic hormones. It thinks there aren't enough receptors present and thus it starts to upregulate (increase) the number of steroidal receptors.

Yea, bc calling a spade a spade is how one becomes a douche lol.

Anyway, he is talking about androgen receptor down regulation which we now know isn't supported by the evidence. Plus Anabolics work on more than just protein synthesis, only a myopic view doesn't consider all it's other benefits towards anabolism and growth.

In the interest of at least being a douche who backs up his statements:

1. Kemppainen JA, Lane MV, Sar M, Wilson EM. Androgen receptor phosphorylation, turnover, nuclear transport, and transcriptional activation. Specificity for steroids and antihormones. J Biol Chem 1992 Jan 15;267(2):968-74

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/

I can link more if you're inclined to read them

 

[brutus79]

Wait- palumbo owns a defunct supplement company AND he is really big... Unfortunately that trumps any insignificant medical study you might produce @Docd187123 .

 

[4leafclover]

Yea, bc calling a spade a spade is how one becomes a douche lol.

Anyway, he is talking about androgen receptor down regulation which we now know isn't supported by the evidence. Plus Anabolics work on more than just protein synthesis, only a myopic view doesn't consider all it's other benefits towards anabolism and growth.

In the interest of at least being a douche who backs up his statements:

1. Kemppainen JA, Lane MV, Sar M, Wilson EM. Androgen receptor phosphorylation, turnover, nuclear transport, and transcriptional activation. Specificity for steroids and antihormones. J Biol Chem 1992 Jan 15;267(2):968-74

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/

I can link more if you're inclined to read them

No he doesn't say it is down regulation, he says saturation, and up regulation upon discontinuation... Of course you want to argue lots... And will take any opportunity to do so. Not calling a spade, just pointing out I see how you operate.

 

[Docd187123]

Wait- palumbo owns a defunct supplement company AND he is really big... Unfortunately that trumps any insignificant medical study you might produce @Docd187123 .

 

[brutus79]

No he doesn't say it is down regulation, he says saturation, and up regulation upon discontinuation... Of course you want to argue lots... And will take any opportunity to do so. Not calling a spade, just pointing out I see how you operate.

You are seriously basing your case on what some "swole" douchebag thinks?

 

[4leafclover]

He has his degree's and went to medical school for x years, and dropped out to be a bb'er. He also made the keto diet very easy for me personally to understand and execute. He gives solid AAS advice, and is very helpful in getting BB'ers off to professional careers, (he has even written articles for this website) and he also did time and is still successful, so yes, I like that swole douchebag.

He has a track record, which much to docd's dismay, out trumps his dorm room studies and ability to read.

 

[Docd187123]

No he doesn't say it is down regulation, he says saturation, and up regulation upon discontinuation... Of course you want to argue lots... And will take any opportunity to do so. Not calling a spade, just pointing out I see how you operate.

AR's up regulate in the presence of supraphysiological levels of hormones. Would you rather up regulate your receptor being on a cycle or off a cycle?

Do you know how much androgens are required to saturate the androgen receptors? Do you really think running 500mg of gear a week for 15wks will saturate receptors? Funny how Palumbo doesn't mention how much gear is required to saturate the androgen receptors but he only talks about length of time.......

Ps. I do t really like to argue, I simply like to correct misinformation. There's a big difference you're not comprehending.

He has his degree's and went to medical school for x years, and dropped out to be a bb'er. He also made the keto diet very easy for me personally to understand and execute. He gives solid AAS advice, and is very helpful in getting BB'ers off to professional careers, (he has even written articles for this website) and he also did time and is still successful, so yes, I like that swole douchebag.

He has a track record, which much to docd's dismay, out trumps his dorm room studies and ability to read.

So you like somebody and therefor he's correct? Or is it because he writes articles for his own website? Or maybe bc he DROPPED out of med school is it?

Bottom line is you can sit around and mope about me correcting you or you can open your eyes and learn something. Your choice but don't derail somebody else's thread bc you have beef with me. You can take it to PM if it bothers you that much.

 

[4leafclover]

AR's up regulate in the presence of supraphysiological levels of hormones. Would you rather up regulate your receptor being on a cycle or off a cycle?

Do you know how much androgens are required to saturate the androgen receptors? Do you really think running 500mg of gear a week for 15wks will saturate receptors? Funny how Palumbo doesn't mention how much gear is required to saturate the androgen receptors but he only talks about length of time.......

Ps. I do t really like to argue, I simply like to correct misinformation. There's a big difference you're not comprehending.




So you like somebody and therefor he's correct? Or is it because he writes articles for his own website? Or maybe bc he DROPPED out of med school is it?

Bottom line is you can sit around and mope about me correcting you or you can open your eyes and learn something. Your choice but don't derail somebody else's thread bc you have beef with me. You can take it to PM if it bothers you that much.

It probably is around the amount that I take for saturation, which is likely 5x the amount you take. Let me see if I have you pegged, not that you would actually admit it.

You have done maybe 1-2 cycles, you also recently learned what proper research is during one of your recent college classes, so you spend a lot of time Googling information and spreading it around the internet like you know something. You get off on "being right" even though you haven't practiced anything you have been preaching. Your actual experience with AAS can be summed up in less than 10 words, and you have been working out for a few years, so you know a lot of stuff that you feel compelled to share.

If you knew anything about Dave, which it's clear you don't, you would know he has written and continues to write for many columns besides his own publication. He is 5000 times more successful than you, since you live in a dorm and haven't finished college yet. He has catapulted the careers of countless body builders, and has over his 25+ years of experience managed thousands of clients in real world settings, not to mention he achieved a rather impressive physique before retiring. While you on the other hand, have achieved nothing, because you have just started on the road of life.

Perhaps you will make something of yourself one day, but that day isn't today, since you lack humility for those that have come before and laid the ground work for you to be condescending from. I don't need a PM to talk to a douche, that doesn't understand he is full of misinformation because all he has is google to back him up, rather than any real knowledge that he gained for himself.

I'll go back to my successful life, and enjoy the fruits of my labor, call me when you have graduated and have some actual experience under your belt.

 

[Docd187123]

It probably is around the amount that I take for saturation, which is likely 5x the amount you take. Let me see if I have you pegged, not that you would actually admit it.

You have done maybe 1-2 cycles, you also recently learned what proper research is during one of your recent college classes, so you spend a lot of time Googling information and spreading it around the internet like you know something. You get off on "being right" even though you haven't practiced anything you have been preaching. Your actual experience with AAS can be summed up in less than 10 words, and you have been working out for a few years, so you know a lot of stuff that you feel compelled to share.

If you knew anything about Dave, which it's clear you don't, you would know he has written and continues to write for many columns besides his own publication. He is 5000 times more successful than you, since you live in a dorm and haven't finished college yet. He has catapulted the careers of countless body builders, and has over his 25+ years of experience managed thousands of clients in real world settings, not to mention he achieved a rather impressive physique before retiring. While you on the other hand, have achieved nothing, because you have just started on the road of life.

Perhaps you will make something of yourself one day, but that day isn't today, since you lack humility for those that have come before and laid the ground work for you to be condescending from. I don't need a PM to talk to a douche, that doesn't understand he is full of misinformation because all he has is google to back him up, rather than any real knowledge that he gained for himself.

I'll go back to my successful life, and enjoy the fruits of my labor, call me when you have graduated and have some actual experience under your belt.

I never imagined correcting you would make you this upset. I apologize for making you feel this way as it wasn't my intention. Now that you've got me "pegged" and you've said your piece and gotten it off your chest, hopefully it made you feel better, would you care to get back on topic?

 

[Millard]

No he doesn't say it is down regulation, he says saturation, and up regulation upon discontinuation... Of course you want to argue lots... And will take any opportunity to do so. Not calling a spade, just pointing out I see how you operate.

Of course he is talking about AR down regulation:

What happens when high amounts of anabolic steroids are utilized for long periods of time is that the NUMBER of receptors (keyholes) diminishes because the body is preventing itself from being overstimulated, and even though you still have lot of anabolic substance present (keys), they can't "work" to maximize protein synthesis because of the lack of these receptors. When you go OFF cycle, the body doesn't know that you're now lacking anabolic hormones. It thinks there aren't enough receptors present and thus it starts to upregulate (increase) the number of steroidal receptors.

I am surprised Palumbo is promoting this idea. He should know better.

@Michael Scally MD on ar downregulation :

https://thinksteroids.com/community...-decreased-sensitivity.134327552/#post-837242

@Bill Roberts on AR downregulation :

Androgen Receptor Regulation

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/

@Bryan Haycock on AR downregulation :

Androgen Receptors Downregulate Don't They? Part 1

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptors-downregulate-1/

Androgen Receptors Downregulate Don't They? Part 2

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptors-downregulate-2/

John Berardi on AR downregulation :

Androgen Action and the Androgen receptor

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-action-androgen-receptor/

 

[4leafclover]

Of course he is talking about AR down regulation:


I am surprised Palumbo is promoting this idea. He should know better.

@Michael Scally MD on ar downregulation :

https://thinksteroids.com/community...-decreased-sensitivity.134327552/#post-837242

@Bill Roberts on AR downregulation :

Androgen Receptor Regulation

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/

@Bryan Haycock on AR downregulation :

Androgen Receptors Downregulate Don't They? Part 1

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptors-downregulate-1/

Androgen Receptors Downregulate Don't They? Part 2

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptors-downregulate-2/

John Berardi on AR downregulation :

Androgen Action and the Androgen receptor

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-action-androgen-receptor/

It was 2010 from his conference and around the same time from his MD article. I'll go ask him about his current views.