Push pull vs bro split

[bigpoppachump2]

Alright old guys chime in here. I've been running a bro split for the last 6 months and although progress is a little slow. I feel great in my joints and everything cept for tendonitis in my right elbow which has been there for a while. I decided to switch back to a push pull routine cause I've always grown really well using it, all except for bicep and some isolated muscles which dont do well on the PPL.

Well last night I did my first push night and man I friggin hurt all over!! My shoulders are killing me, my back is tender etc etc. I think it's just to much rotation on my joints at this age as opposed to the bro split. Like going from chest to shoulders really set everything on fire and then throw in some tricep work and I'm a lame duck.

I wanted to run a PPL so I can get back to hitting some body parts twice a week again but I dont even know if I'll survive doing this once a week lol. Is the PPL routine just a young mans game? Are there any 40+ guys running this and finding work arounds to avoid all the stress on the shoulders and joints?

 

[Bundy55]

I feel similarly about push pull... not enough recovery for my joints as I’m getting a bit older (35) much prefer the normal bro split just to keep injury’s away. Try cutting back your sets on each body part when you’re doing push pull that could help you some.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

I've already abandoned the PPL routine. It's just too much on the shoulder joints and back for me at this age.

Im going to sit down and write a new routine. Itll be like a bro split separating chest and shoulders etc but I also want to hit some body parts twice per week as some things grow better with more weekly volume.

 

[4Figgy]

PPL isn’t bad of you are just doing every other day. Otherwise it’s too much for me at 41. I can do chest/shoulders, back, bis/tris, legs with days off when needed and feel pretty good.

 

[Demondosage]

My training is totally different now at 40 than it was a few years ago. Something I do that really works well for me is frequent muscle stimulation and active recovery. So what that means is one day I may hit chest, delts and biceps and "touch" on back (touch meaning 3 or 4 sets of pullups or lat pulldowns but that's it) and the following workout I may annihilate back and "touch " on biceps (3 or 4 sets of light dumbbell curls and nothing more) I will rotate through all muscle groups like that, it's nothing to stimulate a muscle 2x a week but only drive it into the ground once a week. The heavy foundational stuff like deadlifts, bent over rows, bench press may only be limited to every other week or so, but that isn t to say I don't kill it with other exercises regularly. I train almost exclusively time under tension with moderate weights now.

 

[Test_Subject]

Is the PPL routine just a young mans game? Are there any 40+ guys running this and finding work arounds to avoid all the stress on the shoulders and joints?

I do a Push/Pull with legs included (quads with push and hammies with pull) and I used to have shoulder pain once in awhile.

The secret for me was to do lots of facepulls or band pull-aparts. I'm talking like 3-4 sets of 50 before you start your push day. It really warms up the rotator cuffs and helps you stay pain free.

Another thing that helped me was to do less benching and more cable work and weighted dips as well as switching to dumbells for incline bench.

 

[S317]

My training is totally different now at 40 than it was a few years ago. Something I do that really works well for me is frequent muscle stimulation and active recovery. So what that means is one day I may hit chest, delts and biceps and "touch" on back (touch meaning 3 or 4 sets of pullups or lat pulldowns but that's it) and the following workout I may annihilate back and "touch " on biceps (3 or 4 sets of light dumbbell curls and nothing more) I will rotate through all muscle groups like that, it's nothing to stimulate a muscle 2x a week but only drive it into the ground once a week. The heavy foundational stuff like deadlifts, bent over rows, bench press may only be limited to every other week or so, but that isn t to say I don't kill it with other exercises regularly. I train almost exclusively time under tension with moderate weights now.

I like the idea. Could you expand on it abit more

 

[Demondosage]

I like the idea. Could you expand on it abit more

Sure, due to demands on recovery but the desire and love for training/conditioning I have days where I'll annihilate a certain muscle group but on other days I simply stimulate it but don't drive it into the ground. It's nothing to hit the same muscle group 2-3x a week, but only one of those days is geared towards destroying it. It's a constant process of give and take as muscles get rotated throughout the week.

Back in the day my splits would be typical bro splits like "chest/back", now its nothing to hit chest, back, delts, biceps all in a given workout, but see only one of those muscle groups will be taken to the edge, the others get "touched on" but in a way that recovery is fast and in 2 or 3 days I could be back on it, only that day I would take a different muscle to the edge and "touch" on the others.

Next time same thing, different muscle group. As the week goes on each muscle is stimulated several times but only destroyed once. Take chest for example, today I did chest/delts/biceps/abs. For chest I only did fly motions, NO PRESSING. That would be considered touching on chest, not killing it. In a cpl more days when I nail it again I may destroy it. This sort of training has helped me a lot actually, and I stay fairly large and conditioned (permitting I'm eating fairly tight)

 

[S317]

Sure, due to demands on recovery but the desire and love for training/conditioning I have days where I'll annihilate a certain muscle group but on other days I simply stimulate it but don't drive it into the ground. It's nothing to hit the same muscle group 2-3x a week, but only one of those days is geared towards destroying it. It's a constant process of give and take as muscles get rotated throughout the week.

Back in the day my splits would be typical bro splits like "chest/back", now its nothing to hit chest, back, delts, biceps all in a given workout, but see only one of those muscle groups will be taken to the edge, the others get "touched on" but in a way that recovery is fast and in 2 or 3 days I could be back on it, only that day I would take a different muscle to the edge and "touch" on the others.

Next time same thing, different muscle group. As the week goes on each muscle is stimulated several times but only destroyed once. Take chest for example, today I did chest/delts/biceps/abs. For chest I only did fly motions, NO PRESSING. That would be considered touching on chest, not killing it. In a cpl more days when I nail it again I may destroy it. This sort of training has helped me a lot actually, and I stay fairly large and conditioned (permitting I'm eating fairly tight)

Thanks for the reply. Kinda reminds me of this article I read years ago
Double Stimulation Training | T Nation

 

[Oldschool]

Alright old guys chime in here. I've been running a bro split for the last 6 months and although progress is a little slow. I feel great in my joints and everything cept for tendonitis in my right elbow which has been there for a while. I decided to switch back to a push pull routine cause I've always grown really well using it, all except for bicep and some isolated muscles which dont do well on the PPL.

Well last night I did my first push night and man I friggin hurt all over!! My shoulders are killing me, my back is tender etc etc. I think it's just to much rotation on my joints at this age as opposed to the bro split. Like going from chest to shoulders really set everything on fire and then throw in some tricep work and I'm a lame duck.

I wanted to run a PPL so I can get back to hitting some body parts twice a week again but I dont even know if I'll survive doing this once a week lol. Is the PPL routine just a young mans game? Are there any 40+ guys running this and finding work arounds to avoid all the stress on the shoulders and joints?

Workout three days a week.
Eat,sleep and stretch on the other days.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

Workout three days a week.
Eat,sleep and stretch on the other days.

Well that defeats my purpose of wanting to do the push pull over the bro split. I wanted the push pull for the ability to train each muscle group twice per week.

This is what I'm gonna start next week:
Monday: Chest+Biceps
Tuesday:Back+Shoulders
Wednesday: Legs+Triceps
Thursdayff
Friday: Chest+Biceps
Saturday:Back+Shoulders (may drop the back and just do shoulders)

The reasoning for this is purely hypertrophy. I grow better hitting body parts twice a week with volume. The only reason why triceps are not on there twice is cause it's the one genetically gifted muscle I have, my triceps grow nice and big and full without much effort so no need to beat them up. Biceps definitely need twice a week and even wish I could get in 3 times a week. My back is progressing fine once a week so I'll stay at once per and my legs continue to grow at 1x per and I also don't feel like being crippled all week long recovering from multiple leg workouts.

 

[rthor4573]

I know this thread is a bit old, but i remember Jeff Nippard had a YouTube video on the bro split, and argued that it could be augmented to be a good split to hit body parts more than once a week. I can't remember the name of the vid, but searching nippard and bro split should get you to it.

I saw that you had a tentative split that you were going to start, so it may be a moot point by now anyway.

Hows that working out for you?

 

[Spokeonawheel]

Due to limitations on my time I end up doing a push, pull, legs then full upper body. The next week it'll be legs, push , pull, legs. Everything gets hit twice within a window of about a week and a half. I hate this 4 days a week training shit, but my life is just too fucking busy.

I alternate between a quad dominant day, and a hamstring dominant day for legs.

Now most of these workouts incorporate a lot of supersets and not a lot of rest. Often, ill get 25 to 30 sets done in an hour.

Good enough to add 8 lbs of lean muscle in the last 6 weeks on a very lean bulk.

If you've got 5 days PPL, upper body, legs. This is what I prefer and get it in when I can get 5 days in a week.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

Due to limitations on my time I end up doing a push, pull, legs then full upper body. The next week it'll be legs, push , pull, legs. Everything gets hit twice within a window of about a week and a half. I hate this 4 days a week training shit, but my life is just too fucking busy.

I alternate between a quad dominant day, and a hamstring dominant day for legs.

Now most of these workouts incorporate a lot of supersets and not a lot of rest. Often, ill get 25 to 30 sets done in an hour.

Good enough to add 8 lbs of lean muscle in the last 6 weeks on a very lean bulk.

If you've got 5 days PPL, upper body, legs. This is what I prefer and get it in when I can get 5 days in a week.

I'm actually dropping down to a 3 day schedule myself. Im gonna keep at the push pull legs routine and slowly increase the volume over time on the workout days. I've neglected a lot of things in life over the past couple years while chasing the body I wanted all the while I was moving the goal posts further and further everytime I crossed a milestone. I dont want to be totally consumed with it anymore to where it's my life and identity 24/7. I say all this now but I'll most certainly fall back into obsession with BB again in the future as I always seem to do.

 

[Spokeonawheel]

Yeah. I feel you about falling back into the obsession. I dont plan on competing. Every time I hit a milestone or a goal I just generate a new one. Like I'm at 230 lbs at about 12% BF. I really thought that would be enough. Now, my head whispers, "I could push to 250. 250 at 12% would be enough ..."
And there's days I wonder like why the fuck am I doing this?
I think it boils down to this. There are few times in my day (or life in general) where I really feel like I know exactly what the fuck I'm doing. All the details are worked out, all thats left is discipline and effort and I get what I want. It is fucking beautiful simplicity. Too much of life is just not like that, but when it is I grind like a motherfucker because something in me just has to.
I have kids, one a 5 yr old with down syndrome, work, and im back in school....i guess its all about balance. And I sure as fuck don't have the answers there. At least the gym and the diet provide some comfort in a situation I am utterly in control of.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

This the push pull I'm going to be running for the next 8 weeks. I'm gonna try and stick to 3 days oer week with maybe a 4th day after a few weeks alternating between the push and the pull portion to get in two workout per week every other week for both.

I have a bunch of projects that need to be completed. One Automotive restoration, my boat remodel has been half done for way to long and it needs to be done before the fall striped bass fishing hits its peak. And on top of it all I just really need to get back on the water and fish, that's where my soul is happiest and I just haven't been going nearly enough to satisfy my heart. I went from fish g 6 days a week for 7 months a year for 10 years straight to fishing only 4 times in the past year. I gotta get those number back up to a respectable amount.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

This the push pull I'm going to be running for the next 8 weeks. I'm gonna try and stick to 3 days oer week with maybe a 4th day after a few weeks alternating between the push and the pull portion to get in two workout per week every other week for both.

I have a bunch of projects that need to be completed. One Automotive restoration, my boat remodel has been half done for way to long and it needs to be done before the fall striped bass fishing hits its peak. And on top of it all I just really need to get back on the water and fish, that's where my soul is happiest and I just haven't been going nearly enough to satisfy my heart. I went from fish g 6 days a week for 7 months a year for 10 years straight to fishing only 4 times in the past year. I gotta get those number back up to a respectable amount.

Oops I never posted the link:

John Meadows' 6-Week Plan for More Mass

 

[TSud]

Oops I never posted the link:

John Meadows' 6-Week Plan for More Mass

I read that article also and was interested in following that routine but then I noticed that the exercises they have listed in the article are just a one week sample of the six week program. Do you have the remaining weeks or are you going to just repeat everything all 8 weeks?

 

[bigpoppachump2]

I read that article also and was interested in following that routine but then I noticed that the exercises they have listed in the article are just a one week sample of the six week program. Do you have the remaining weeks or are you going to just repeat everything all 8 weeks?

I'm going to use it as the base and keep the bread and butter exercises while mixing in and out other secondary exercises to create variety