QSC floaters in test e and tren e

[readalot]

To be clear for the reader, you would recommend a 5 um spike adapter for every UGL "finished" oil vial?

Post in thread '10ml or 20ml or 30ml vials'

Aug 30, 2024

I use one spike for the life of the vial.

You attach the luer lock syringe, draw, then disconnect the syringe, leaving the spike in the vial and attach needle. An added benefit is that it prevents using a separate needle to draw, or dulling the needle if using the same to draw and inject.

The model I use has a valve that closes when the syringe is removed, so nothing leaks from the vial being held upside down.

There's a vent that allows air into the vial as you draw, equalizing pressure preventing vacuum from forming.

Liquid flows through a 5 micron particle filter, vent air flows...

• Ghoul

• 
• 

So some piece of mind for 5 um cutoff.

IMO, this is great but does not excuse a vendor who isn't putting a finished product in a finished injection vial.

Thank you again for all your efforts on here.

@Ghoul

?

 

[Ghoul]

Let's get real. One party (the originator was serious). The other, while they followed through, evidently was being flippant/sarcastic with the action by their own admission. Never would have done it on their own. Tries to diminish the value of the testing at every opportunity. So let's be careful with the word "raised".

Good faith is an important consideration.

I stopped caring about motivation a long time ago. I assume everyone pursues their own selfish interest. Pure "good will" raises my suspicions. I focus solely on results.

Without any doubt external pressure moved Q to expand testing, mostly from you. Feedback is behind all the improvements Q has made,

That's how things should work.

Don't underestimate the value in having an opposite party that's willing to respond to feedback and capable of implementing changes.

So floaters are fucked up and need to be fixed once and for all, while the expanded testing is good.

Criticize what you want less of. Everyone understands this.

Praise what you want more of. This is the equally, if not greater, element of driving improvement most people don't seem to understand as well.

 

[UncleBuns]

There is definitely a reasonable way QSC could ensure no floaters. It may slow production slightly and increase cost a bit though. Obviously they want to stay the absolute cheapest source and therefore are unwilling to take an extra step or 2 to ensure no floaters.

Currently I'm still pretty well stocked with GL products So I don't think about this issue much, but I'm starting to agree with people who say filtering all UGL is the smartest thing to do. When it comes to QSC though, it's mandatory.

Seems the best course of action is to regularly bring up the floater issue QSC in the thread to remind members and to let new members know that if they choose to purchase from QSC they absolutely need to filter.

The real decider is money. Buyers vote with their dollars and many will continue to buy from QSC. Best we can do is promote them to filter.

 

[readalot]

I stopped caring about motivation a long time ago. I assume everyone pursues their own selfish interest. Pure "good will" raises my suspicions. I focus solely on results.

Without any doubt external pressure moved Q to expand testing, mostly from you. Feedback is behind all the improvements Q has made,

That's how things should work.

Don't underestimate the value in having an opposite party that's willing to respond to feedback and capable of implementing changes.

So floaters are fucked up and need to be fixed once and for all, while the expanded testing is good.

Criticize what you want less of. Everyone understands this.

Praise what you want more of. This is the equally, if not greater, element of driving improvement most people don't seem to understand as well.

It would typically be 10:1 (praise:criticize) as best practice if it wasn't QSC. They have a special designation based on historical attitude.

 

[readalot]

Seems the best course of action is to regularly bring up the floater issue QSC in the thread to remind members and to let new members know that if they choose to purchase from QSC they absolutely need to filter.

Who?

 

[Qingdao Sigma Chemicals]

It would typically be 10:1 (praise:criticize) as best practice if it wasn't QSC. They have a special designation based on historical attitude.

That seems personal. Personal motivations and credibility aren't best friends, so it won't help your projects, especially given the facts that we are the source who performed the largest number of enhanced testing

 

[Sampei]

To be clear...

You DO NOT support or condone unfinished oils in injection vials? You believe oils placed in injection vials should be free of visible particulates (aka floaters). They should be finished.

Do I understand your position correctly?

This is not about supporting or condoning anything.

This is a simple demand and offer situation and I don't get why many don't understand it.

QSC is a business and the only thing they care is making money, now do you think it is different of any other western company in this regard?
Nope the only thing that matters is money.

So companies prioritize what make them more money or what is risking them lose money. It's a simple equation.

Does floaters risk them lose money? Nope. The % of ppl that ain't buying QSC oils Vs who does because of floaters it's ridiculously low % (one could argue sadly, but it is what it is)

So is it a priority to fix the floaters issue? Nope it's not. Especially because the feedback has been reinforced by ppl not reporting infections etc.

Will it give QSC a boost in revenue fixing the issue? Maybe... Slightly, not really much atm.

So we go back on what are the priorities for a company that wants to make more money and not risk losing it.

Floaters are not a priority either ways.

So who can make it a priority? Customers.

Now let's go from the customers perspective: I can buy a kit of test E for 80 dollars, so 8 dollars a vial check it for floaters, if I don't see anything inject it, profit, if I see something I buy: 4 PTFE filters and 5x 20ml vials and refilter it, for a total cost of: 4$ of filters and 6$ of sterile vials. So for 1$ dollar more each vial.
Let's say I don't care if I see something or not I filter anyway, so add that cost of +10$ to any kit and that's it.

Now the issue here is that both parties are not pushed by anything in changing the status quo as they are both profiting from it. The customers are buying cheap well dosed and mostly pip free gear and the seller is making shit load of money no matter what.

Anyone thinking that QSC should address the issue like it's a top priority it's naive, what I want as Sampei, a single individual means zero. You means zero. Because the damage we can bring to their business is exactly this: 0.

If one day customers will decide that there is maybe another source with cheaper or same prices but no floater or whatever they think it's important and they start flocking that way than you will see QSC priorities to shift quickly.

Do you remember when Marcus of GA arrived? How many ppl ran to him? Quite a lot. We do know how that shit ended up tho but that's another story.

 

[readalot]

That seems personal. Personal motivations and credibility aren't best friends, so it won't help your projects, especially given the facts that we are the source who performed the largest number of enhanced testing

My credibility is just fine, thank you.

To your point, I do hope we can continue to dialogue respectfully. Our motivations are apparently very different. I have no conflict of interest and derive no monetary gain from any of this.

Never forget who started with the unprofessional response to my original, very fair questions. You never apologized. Would show some good faith on your part. Wouldn't hurt matters.

You started the personal attacks. It would be wise to never underestimate my persistence. Go ask Axle. The respectful path makes sense for both of us. I am committed to furthering the goals of this forum. If I end up being the only one, so be it.

 

[readalot]

This is not about supporting or condoning anything.

This is a simple demand and offer situation and I don't get why many don't understand it.

QSC is a business and the only thing they care is making money, now do you think it is different of any other western company in this regard?
Nope the only thing that matters is money.

So companies prioritize what make them more money or what is risking them lose money. It's a simple equation.

Does floaters risk them lose money? Nope. The % of ppl that ain't buying QSC oils Vs who does because of floaters it's ridiculously low % (one could argue sadly, but it is what it is)

So is it a priority to fix the floaters issue? Nope it's not. Especially because the feedback has been reinforced by ppl not reporting infections etc.

Will it give QSC a boost in revenue fixing the issue? Maybe... Slightly, not really much atm.

So we go back on what are the priorities for a company that wants to make more money and not risk losing it.

Floaters are not a priority either ways.

So who can make it a priority? Customers.

Now let's go from the customers perspective: I can buy a kit of test E for 80 dollars, so 8 dollars a vial check it for floaters, if I don't see anything inject it, profit, if I see something I buy: 4 PTFE filters and 5x 20ml vials and refilter it, for a total cost of: 4$ of filters and 6$ of sterile vials. So for 1$ dollar more each vial.
Let's say I don't care if I see something or not I filter anyway, so add that cost of +10$ to any kit and that's it.

Now the issue here is that both parties are not pushed by anything in changing the status quo as they are both profiting from it. The customers are buying cheap well dosed and mostly pip free gear and the seller is making shit load of money no matter what.

Anyone thinking that QSC should address the issue like it's a top priority it's naive, what I want as Sampei, a single individual means zero. You means zero. Because the damage we can bring to their business is exactly this: 0.

If one day customers will decide that there is maybe another source with cheaper or same prices but no floater or whatever they think it's important and they start flocking that way than you will see QSC priorities to shift quickly.

Do you remember when Marcus of GA arrived? How many ppl ran to him? Quite a lot. We do know how that shit ended up tho but that's another story.

Thank you very much for taking the time to craft and provide your thoughtful reply. I appreciate it.

 

[Sampei]

There is definitely a reasonable way QSC could ensure no floaters. It may slow production slightly and increase cost a bit though. Obviously they want to stay the absolute cheapest source and therefore are unwilling to take an extra step or 2 to ensure no floaters.

Currently I'm still pretty well stocked with GL products So I don't think about this issue much, but I'm starting to agree with people who say filtering all UGL is the smartest thing to do. When it comes to QSC though, it's mandatory.

Seems the best course of action is to regularly bring up the floater issue QSC in the thread to remind members and to let new members know that if they choose to purchase from QSC they absolutely need to filter.

The real decider is money. Buyers vote with their dollars and many will continue to buy from QSC. Best we can do is promote them to filter.

That is a good idea, prompting health reduction can be many things, one is giving ppl a way to protect themselves from their choices

 

[readalot]

And BTW, weaponizing Enhanced Testing to excuse floaters will never fly why I am occupying space on this board. The harm reduction/bubble brigade is awfully quiet today.

It's f'ed up. Must be Situational Ethics Saturday.

 

[Sampei]

And BTW, weaponizing ET to excuse floaters will never fly why I am occupying space on this board. The harm reduction/bubble brigade is awfully quiet today.

It's f'ed up. Must be Situational Ethics Saturday.

What's ET?

 

[readalot]

What's ET?

"Enhanced Testing"
Aka all those tests we have been discussing here for a little bit. QSC did them recently.

 

[Sampei]

"Enhanced Testing"
Aka all those tests we have been discussing here for a little bit. QSC did them recently.

Ohhh ok, i couldn't get the acronym xD

 

[Qingdao Sigma Chemicals]

This is not about supporting or condoning anything.

This is a simple demand and offer situation and I don't get why many don't understand it.

QSC is a business and the only thing they care is making money, now do you think it is different of any other western company in this regard?
Nope the only thing that matters is money.

So companies prioritize what make them more money or what is risking them lose money. It's a simple equation.

Does floaters risk them lose money? Nope. The % of ppl that ain't buying QSC oils Vs who does because of floaters it's ridiculously low % (one could argue sadly, but it is what it is)

So is it a priority to fix the floaters issue? Nope it's not. Especially because the feedback has been reinforced by ppl not reporting infections etc.

Will it give QSC a boost in revenue fixing the issue? Maybe... Slightly, not really much atm.

So we go back on what are the priorities for a company that wants to make more money and not risk losing it.

Floaters are not a priority either ways.

So who can make it a priority? Customers.

Now let's go from the customers perspective: I can buy a kit of test E for 80 dollars, so 8 dollars a vial check it for floaters, if I don't see anything inject it, profit, if I see something I buy: 4 PTFE filters and 5x 20ml vials and refilter it, for a total cost of: 4$ of filters and 6$ of sterile vials. So for 1$ dollar more each vial.
Let's say I don't care if I see something or not I filter anyway, so add that cost of +10$ to any kit and that's it.

Now the issue here is that both parties are not pushed by anything in changing the status quo as they are both profiting from it. The customers are buying cheap well dosed and mostly pip free gear and the seller is making shit load of money no matter what.

Anyone thinking that QSC should address the issue like it's a top priority it's naive, what I want as Sampei, a single individual means zero. You means zero. Because the damage we can bring to their business is exactly this: 0.

If one day customers will decide that there is maybe another source with cheaper or same prices but no floater or whatever they think it's important and they start flocking that way than you will see QSC priorities to shift quickly.

Do you remember when Marcus of GA arrived? How many ppl ran to him? Quite a lot. We do know how that shit ended up tho but that's another story.

I think you got it right in several points here.
Especially when we all know that every source is as good as its last batch.
So you're G2G until someone with a good flash light decide to inspect many of your vials, and this what happened to several chinese sources claiming they have no floaters, at the end, they all ended up with reports of floaters.

People make the mistake of comparing western domestic UGL to chinese sellers.
The chinese will remain chinese even if :
- he have more testing than western domestic
- he have domestic warehouses.
- have better quality.
He still can't be able to sell his gear at same pricing as domestic, and people will always see the domestic western superior, despite the lack of testing of most of them, slower shipments of many.. etc
The strengh of the chinese sellers is the price, and basic quality: sterility, no underdosage, acceptable purity.

If I fix all the issues as top priority, with all the drama that goes with, like sales suspension, and stuff like that. And decide to sell my vials of test at $30-$40/vial, I will probably lose 95% of my oils buyers.

That to say: domestic and chinese don't compete, they are different markets, for different kind of buyers.
People (my buyers) will prefer to get their gear, at $4-$6/vial, and get a sterile filter fiber floating to be filtered (or ignored), one time in a year or twice, because for the moment, we are talking about 1 floater report in one vial out of 10,000 vials sold of the new test E batch, Rather than getting their vials for $30-$40/vial.

That said, it's not justified, BUT, let's remember it's finished, filtered, sterile, endotoxin free, heavy metals free, rare, cheap, and will be improved, and possibly for good, when all parameters are controlled.

 

[readalot]

If one day customers will decide that there is maybe another source with cheaper or same prices but no floater or whatever they think it's important and they start flocking that way than you will see QSC priorities to shift quickly.

To its logical conclusion, we would never have improved standards or continue to move the ball so to speak if all members operated like this out of pure, naked self / financial interest. Good to know.

 

[Sampei]

To its logical conclusion, we would never have improved standards or continue to move the ball so to speak if all members operated like this out of pure, naked self / financial interest. Good to know.

We improved things just because of financial interests of sources. If you think that any sources has done these ET because they CARE of our health you have got it all wrong imho.

They do it because they think it will bring them more business and so more money.

It's all about the money.

 

[readalot]

This is not about supporting or condoning anything.

When you get a chance answer the questions above for Sampei. What are your standards? You made a great analysis of the market and customers. How about you?

After all, if no members act for the benefit of the community, then Millard has set up a fool's errand. Just a bunch of words typed on the screen.

 

[Qingdao Sigma Chemicals]

To its logical conclusion, we would never have improved standards or continue to move the ball so to speak if all members operated like this out of pure, naked self / financial interest. Good to know.

For the same reasons the veggie, gluten free, lactose free, palm oil free store isn't as crowded as the Mcdonald's.

In life, it's all about compromises, you measure pros and cons, and pick up what suits you.

I am sure if you're just on trt, and you need 2-3 vials a year, QSC isn't your first option, and you aren't QSC target neither, the MOQ is already 10 vials, better spend it domestic, western.
If you're continuously on B&C, stacking different compounds, high test, growth, primo lover, and your lady is getting thick and needs some tirz, it becomes quite a budget, so unless you do some grapefruit Kai Green shows, you're broke.
It's not for nothing that many start homebrewing.

 

[readalot]

We improved things just because of financial interests of sources

The financial interest of the vendors has never entered my calculus.