question for all the Christians

joe shmoe

New Member
now let me get something straight from the get go.....this is just out of curiosity. not a flame or a judgement on anyone.

OK, having said that..if you guys consider yourselves christians, how can you be using AAS? its illegal....you're breaking the law. and please dont give a simple answer like "well those are mans laws, not Gods laws". again, i'm just trying to get into your heads.

have a nice day
 
joe shmoe said:
now let me get something straight from the get go.....this is just out of curiosity. not a flame or a judgement on anyone.

OK, having said that..if you guys consider yourselves christians, how can you be using AAS? its illegal....you're breaking the law. and please dont give a simple answer like "well those are mans laws, not Gods laws". again, i'm just trying to get into your heads.

have a nice day


I do not use AAS. I just like the people on the forum. Plus there is a lot of other things this forum as to offer other than AAS.

-Pastor
 
Its somewhat of a tough question, Joe. Besides normal Biblical law, the Bible also states that we are to obey the laws of our own government. Seems kinda strange since the US schedules AAS, yet an American can go walk across the Mexican border, take some shots, and come back home and be ok. Gray area? Maybe.
 
because we are all sinners and we give in to temptation. its like having sex before your married-your know your not supposed to-but hard to resist.
 
We could get into one heck of a philosophical discussion, but realize one very simple truth, no one is perfect. Are AAS bad? I see many christians smoking, drinking, and many other sinful acts. Who has the power to deam certain practices sinful? I do not see the use of hormones written in the 10 commandments. Being Christian is living by the teachings of Jesus. This almost reminds me of bible school rock throwing. Give me a break!
 
mdoc said:
We could get into one heck of a philosophical discussion, but realize one very simple truth, no one is perfect. Are AAS bad? I see many christians smoking, drinking, and many other sinful acts. Who has the power to deam certain practices sinful? I do not see the use of hormones written in the 10 commandments. Being Christian is living by the teachings of Jesus. This almost reminds me of bible school rock throwing. Give me a break!
So because some Christians drink or smoke, that makes it ok to use AAS?
 
Yes, he did, but that wasnt the point of my post. The guy was basically saying that it is ok to use AAS because other people use other substances that arent necessarily healthy. "Well, Johnny's mom lets him...." is a lame argument.

And there is no law in the Bible against drinking, only drinking to excess.
 
BTW - if we are going to start slinging mud about breaking laws, let each and every one of you guys say you never speed, never spit on the sidewalk, never hung out in a parking lot with less than $ 5 in your pocket, drove home after having 2 beers in under an hour.....the list goes on...lets call a spade a spade here.....a good percentage of our laws are bushwa.
 
Bob Smith said:
Yes, he did, but that wasnt the point of my post. The guy was basically saying that it is ok to use AAS because other people use other substances that arent necessarily healthy. "Well, Johnny's mom lets him...." is a lame argument.

And there is no law in the Bible against drinking, only drinking to excess.

I'm not attacking you on your post, I see the point of your argument....but in the same token, some of our laws are ridiculous.......
 
I guess my ultimate gripe is, the government is bearing their prong further and further up our keister and we just seem to bend over and take it with a smile while paying them to do it. The government is largely draconian with many of its laws.
 
Hogg said:
I guess my ultimate gripe is, the government is bearing their prong further and further up our keister and we just seem to bend over and take it with a smile while paying them to do it. The government is largely draconian with many of its laws.
I agree completely. I was just flipping through the new issue of Playboy and it says that there are roughly 775,000 words in the Bible and 2.8 million in the US tax code. That pretty much sums up where the govts priorities are. A quote by FDR from 1942 says "In this time of war, no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000." So much for a representative republic.

Oh, and now the FCC will be going after soap operas because kids might see the "graphic" sexuality portrayed on them. Umm...shouldnt kids be in school at 12pm? This leaves "adult" television watching to between the hours of 11pm and 4am.

Where does this all end?! At what point do people get so pissed off about our eroding rights that they decide to take a stand? How many Constitutional rights have to be trampled on before anyone gives a damn?

As much as I hate Kerry, Im almost tempted to vote for him just because of the bullshit rights violations that the Bush administration has been pushing. This whole thing sucks. We need a libertarian president and congress!
 
Well Joe, you have a very legitimate question, and IMO you are simply calling a spade a spade.. We are not being good Christians by using AAS.

1. It is illegal

2. It is vanity (don't you guys start with me on this.. we do it because it makes us feel better about our selves...and because we like the attention being big affords us) The bible instructs that we are to turn to god for all our needs, and not worry what others think or even what we think.. we are to trust the lord to give us purpose.

3. It is for worldly, and the bible says that he who loves the world does not love the lord.

I could probably go on a lot more.. but even though this next statement is going to piss some people off.. and Mind you..this is only my oppinion... Those of us who are using steroids and professing to be christians are Hypocrits.. We are openly breaking the law of the bible and doing so knowing that what we are doing is wrong.. sure we justify and rationalize..but in the end.. a spades a spade..and we are all criminals, and we are all turning to a vial to meet our emotional and or physical needs instead of turning to God... Again.. THIS is my oppinion only.
 
Well, the way I see it, I think that Jesus would want his children to live in a manner that makes them happy, is healthy, not self-destructive and does not cause harm to others. I pray every night, and try to attend Church regularly. I love Christ and all of his children and I think Jesus is more concerned with the heart of his children than just actions. Remember the group that Christ criticized the most were the Pharisees, and that was the group that was obsessed with legalism and pure actions. The forgot that God was love.

As far as breaking the law, yes, it does. However, I feel if one disagrees with a law (aka an unjust law) then they have the right to break that law. However, it is a double edged sword because you must accept the consequences for your actions. Somebody else famous felt this way as well, and his name was Jesus. Jesus had some idea that he was breaking Jewish law and in some cases, Roman Law as well. But when the Roman came to arrest him, he took responsibility for his actions.

The fact that Jesus doesnt want us to break our nations laws can be a tricky subject. At times, he says to not break the laws, but at other times breaks the laws himself. What were Christians supposed to do when Christianity was outlawed? Stop believing or break the law?

In short, Jesus looks at the heart. If you love Jesus, his children and yourself, than he would probably have no issues with AAS use. Often times as Christians, it is very easy to fall into a legalistic frame of mind, but Jesus did not want this at all.

P.S. On a side note, I think it is unjust to make anything naturally occuring illegal.
 
Ahhh.. but does the bible not say to look toward the father for all things.. And IMO that should include happiness..IF we are looking to vial instead of God to fullfill a need than we are not following Christ's teachings.. I believe that christ wants us to live in a manner that is Holy... not looking to fullfill our own happiness with worldly things... For he who loves the world hates Christ..
 
Bob Smith said:
I agree completely. I was just flipping through the new issue of Playboy and it says that there are roughly 775,000 words in the Bible and 2.8 million in the US tax code. That pretty much sums up where the govts priorities are. A quote by FDR from 1942 says "In this time of war, no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000." So much for a representative republic.

Oh, and now the FCC will be going after soap operas because kids might see the "graphic" sexuality portrayed on them. Umm...shouldnt kids be in school at 12pm? This leaves "adult" television watching to between the hours of 11pm and 4am.

Where does this all end?! At what point do people get so pissed off about our eroding rights that they decide to take a stand? How many Constitutional rights have to be trampled on before anyone gives a damn?

As much as I hate Kerry, Im almost tempted to vote for him just because of the bullshit rights violations that the Bush administration has been pushing. This whole thing sucks. We need a libertarian president and congress!

WOW, you really do read Playboy for the articles. Anyway, I think religion is really an individual thing. If, and that is a big IF, there is a god and he or she gave us free will then I can only assume that he wanted us to use it. Probably a bigger pont is the logic of where the legal system meets religion is flawed. If this were true and laws were to be followed, without question, then you would have never been able to make this thread as cristians (along with all other religions) were the targets of government persecution at one point or another. Roman government was opposed to Christianity,. Therefore the only way to be Christain is to break laws. I wish I though of this arguement in grade school.
 
Phreezer said:
1. It is illegal
Jesus himself often flip-flops on this issue (seemingly, as I believe he REALLY doesnt, but it is complicated). Jesus tells us to obey the laws of the land, but he seems to abdictate ignoring those that harm his children.

Phreezer said:
2. It is vanity (don't you guys start with me on this.. we do it because it makes us feel better about our selves...and because we like the attention being big affords us) The bible instructs that we are to turn to god for all our needs, and not worry what others think or even what we think.. we are to trust the lord to give us purpose.
Indeed, but Jesus acknowledges that the material world is important. Jesus did not want us to ignore the material world entirely, but instead to believe God is greater than this material world. Jesus wants us to be careful of the temptation that material things can bring, but to cherish those material gifts that God has given his children.

Phreezer said:
3. It is for worldly, and the bible says that he who loves the world does not love the lord.
Correct, because he who loves this world cannot also love the lord. A man cannot have two masters. This does not mean that we cannot value this life that God has given us.

Joe does ask a good question, and honestly, I dont know if my answer is the correct one. This is just how I feel, as I see Jesus as love, whereas other Christians see him as a judge. Jesus to me is a father figure, in that he tells us what is right and wrong, but most importantly, gives us forgiveness and grace. Sometimes it is hard to understand that a father can both command us and love us, but that is how I see him.

Also, I think this "hard-line" view of Jesus is more derived from the Old Testament view of God, and not the true picture Jesus gives his children in the New Testament.
 
Phreezer said:
Ahhh.. but does the bible not say to look toward the father for all things.. And IMO that should include happiness..IF we are looking to vial instead of God to fullfill a need than we are not following Christ's teachings.. I believe that christ wants us to live in a manner that is Holy... not looking to fullfill our own happiness with worldly things... For he who loves the world hates Christ..

I agree, but I think you are taking it to an extreme. For example, God does not want us to never eat because the grocery store gave us food and it didnt come directly from Heaven. However, in a way God does give us those groceries, just as in a way, God creates that vial. The danger becomes when we no longer believe God is the reason for those groceries and that vial, when we start to believe we did this all on our own.

P.S. - Just out of curiosity, do you believe that God gave us that vial? Or do you believe Satan did? I think your view of AAS itself is different from mine.
 
One question though Phreezer, if I go down to see the doc in Sunset Beach, pay for a few doctor visits, and obtain a prescription, I am then no longer a criminal, thus no longer a sinner, thus fully worthy of calling myself a 'Christian'???...not that I would mind you, I tend to find myself leaning more and more gnostic as the new millenium passes.....

See, it just....I dunno, the whole issue of you use this without a prescription and you are a criminal yet, I'm 34 and could get it via prescription and thus I'm not a criminal but yet.....I'm still using it....and mind you, at 34, its not as much vanity as it is quality of life.

Beyond that, I dont love the world, actually, I tend to hate the world, but I do love ME......and I make decisions that I feel benefit me or make me happy....

I'm not going to Calvary Chapel on Friday though I have went with my boss and coworkers for the past 3 years.....I dont like their method of worship.....I think most of the people in there are full of shit hiding behind the guise of being a 'good Christian' .....and I'll do my Good Friday thing on my own.....I'll figure out whether I was right or wrong on Judgement day. At least I wont be in the company of people whom I have personally caught lying with a smile on their face.


Phreezer said:
Well Joe, you have a very legitimate question, and IMO you are simply calling a spade a spade.. We are not being good Christians by using AAS.

1. It is illegal

2. It is vanity (don't you guys start with me on this.. we do it because it makes us feel better about our selves...and because we like the attention being big affords us) The bible instructs that we are to turn to god for all our needs, and not worry what others think or even what we think.. we are to trust the lord to give us purpose.

3. It is for worldly, and the bible says that he who loves the world does not love the lord.

I could probably go on a lot more.. but even though this next statement is going to piss some people off.. and Mind you..this is only my oppinion... Those of us who are using steroids and professing to be christians are Hypocrits.. We are openly breaking the law of the bible and doing so knowing that what we are doing is wrong.. sure we justify and rationalize..but in the end.. a spades a spade..and we are all criminals, and we are all turning to a vial to meet our emotional and or physical needs instead of turning to God... Again.. THIS is my oppinion only.
 

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