Quitting the juice....PCT plans and ideas...

CAswole

Member
Hey Meso dudes, well the time has come for me to give up the juice. I wish i didnt have to make this choice but i do. My addictive personality has led me to this conclusion for myself. The money spent on it plus my own issues which are now including cocaine i have to get totally clean which includes AAS. My hats off to those that can hang with it but at this point for me it has to end. With this in mind i need to plan PCT. I know its been written about at length but sadly for me this being probably my last thread here i wanted to chat one last time with my Meso bros. Im 36, have been blasting and cruising for almost 2 years never pcting. Currently on 900mg of test e a week. What are your thoughts on what i need to do to get right and start training natural again. Always appreciative....CAswole
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles bro. Addiction is a bitch. Glad to hear you're taking the steps you feel you need though. There's a lot more to life than being big and strong. Why bother if you can't enjoy the rest?

I'd run the power PCT. Actually, i would PM doctor Scally and ask his opinion, and Jim too. Those guys are pretty awesome to have around when it comes to serious business.
 
No one likes a quitter man!!!!!! ;)Jokes aside wish you all the best in achieving sobriety. You will feel amazing at first but the feeling fades quick. So one day at a time and use training for those hard days. GL and stay strong mentally brother :)
 
Power PCT protocol worked very well for me.

HPGA Normalization Protocol After Androgen Treatment
N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally
Program for Wellness Restoration, PoWeR


Objective Results Discussion
To develop an approach to cycle androgens that would result in significant changes in body composition and accelerate the normalization of the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis (HPGA) after cessation of androgens.

Methods

An uncontrolled study of 19 HIV-negative eugonadal men, ages 23 – 57 years, administered testosterone cypionate and nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks, and then were treated simultaneously with a combined regimen of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) (2500 IU/QODx16d), clomiphene citrate (50 mg PO BID x 30d) and tamoxifen (20 mg PO QD x 45d), to restore the HPGA.

Results
Mean FFM by DEXA increased from 64.1 to 69.8 kg (p<.001); percent body fat decreased from 23.6 to 20.9 (p<.01); strength increased significantly from 357.4 lb to 406.4 lb (p=.02). No significant changes in serum chemistries and liver function tests were found. HDL-C decreased from a mean value of 44.3 to 38.0 (p=.02). Mean values for luteinizing hormone (LH) and total testosterone (T) were 4.5 and 460, respectively prior to androgen treatment. At the conclusion of the 12-week treatment with androgens the mean LH <0.7 (p<.001) and total testosterone was 1568 (p<.001). The mean values after treatment with the combined regimen were LH=6.2 and testosterone=458.

Discussion
The use of androgens has been reported to improve lean body mass, strength, sexual function, and mood accompanied by side effects caused by continuous uninterrupted use of these compounds (polycythemia, testicular atrophy, hypertension, liver dysfunction [oral androgens] and alopecia.) Androgen-induced HPGA suppression causes a severe hypogonadal state in most patients that often require an extensive period of considerable duration for normalization. This prevents most if not all individuals from cycling off these medications due to the adverse impact of this state on their previously gained LBM and quality of life. The protocol of hCG-clomiphene-tamoxifen was successful in restoring the HPGA within 45 days after androgen cessation. Further controlled studies are needed to determine if these results can be duplicated in HIV positive subjects.

PRACTICAL APPLICATION
The esters used in the abstract were cypionate and deconate however the administration of the PCT medications were started the day after aas cessation. Essentially the aas esters were still active when PCT began. The first 16 days a large amount of HCG was used in order to increase the mass of the testes so that they could sustain output of testosterone sooner. The HCG was stopped about the time the esters cleared so that estrogenic activity from the HCG would be reduced. During those first 16 days 2 different SERM’s were also employed (Clomid and Nolvadex) This protocol is contrary to what is typically recommended in many forums but regardless the protocol was effective in all 19 men. This is a 100% success rate! After the HCG was discontinued both SERM’s were continued. The following is the exact protocol in laymen’s terms.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day


I now strongly believe that an AI should be used as long as there is an aromatizing compound being administered. In this case Testosterone and HCG aromatize therefore using an AI until these meds clear is now what I am recommending. There is some evidence that adding Nolva to an AI does not increase the effectiveness of estro control therefore Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno. Additionally Nolva has been shown to reduce IGF-1 and GH levels. This is not a big deal on cycle as testosterone increases IGF-1 in a dose dependant relationship. However off cycle this is a problem. PCT is a fragile time and lower IGF-1 and GH levels is not desireable as I am sure you can appreciate. The last few days I have been relooking at AI's to find one that is specific to men that can be used on cycle and during PCT. It is my conclusion that Aromasin is the obvious choice.

Aromasin (Exemestane) is a Type-I aromatase inhibitor, or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it. (1)

Personally, I find this to be a very interesting mechanism of action when compared to type-II aromatase inhibitors, which bind competitively to the aromatase enzyme, and eventually unbind, rendering it active again. In the case of Aromasin, this doesn’t happen, and once it does its job on the enzyme, those particular enzymes will no longer function.

Because the enzyme is permanently deactivated there is no estrogen rebound with Aromasin. Estrogen rebound at this critical time during PCT is undesirable so using Arimidex would be inferior. Therefore I believe Aromasin is the AI of choice during PCT.

Reference:
1. A predictive model for exemestane pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics incorporating the effect of food and formulation.Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2005 Mar;59(3):355-64.

The following is a study done in men with Aromasin that shows significant effect on estrogen and testosterone; Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.
 
Different strokes for different folks, but I couldn't imagine trying a pct AND rebounding from cocaine....

BUT IF YOU DO, your a badass bro:)

My THOUGHTS would be drop down to TRT dose and deal with your other demons first..... Those AA assholes will always tell you all or nothing..... And bro that me be the way for some, but only you knows what works for you!

As far as pct id be aiming for something similar to power pct, and blood work to show nuts are responding to HCG, and blood work to show PCT meds are working

Good luck dude, and it will suck, but not that sucky
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles @CAswole, you're a good guy. I commend you for having your priorities straight.

There is a "power pct" protocol you can find here that some guys have had success with after long blasts. If you have the funds you can always get a consultation from Dr Scally.
 
I'm with @G2Ready on this one brother... first off sorry to hear about your troubles brother but glad to see your facing them head on... that being said, right now your main focus needs to be being in a good place mentally and unfortunately pct and good mental status don't jI've at first... my concern for you is depression first and foremost...
I think the best plan in your situation would be to taper down on the test...
600 for a few weeks, 3-400 for a couple weeks then down to a trt dose... get your head right and then plan a pct once you have had some time away from the coke... the key to recovery regardless of who you are is clean time... the more time away from a drug the stronger you become...
 
Thx u to everyone for your advice. I am going to taper down over the next several weeks. Being test e. How many weeks after my last shot at 150mg should i wait before i start the pct protocol? Im actually looking forward to see what i can do naturally. Should be interesting.
 
@CAswole Depends on what protocol you follow. For PowerPCT, you're starting HCG immediately after your last pin. Here's an excerpt from my above post:

The first 16 days a large amount of HCG was used in order to increase the mass of the testes so that they could sustain output of testosterone sooner. The HCG was stopped about the time the esters cleared so that estrogenic activity from the HCG would be reduced. During those first 16 days 2 different SERM’s were also employed (clomid and nolvadex) This protocol is contrary to what is typically recommended in many forums but regardless the protocol was effective in all 19 men. This is a 100% success rate! After the HCG was discontinued both SERM’s were continued. The following is the exact protocol in laymen’s terms.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

Now, I've also read that some folks like to wait at least 2 weeks (which is approx 2 half lives) on enanthate so the esters clear followed by their selected PCT regimen.
 
Congrats on the decision.

I second some other comments here. Get clean of everything else, and drop your test down to a TRT dose. This is especially true if you were abusing something like tren.

Once you are stable and rational, then switch to a power PCT protocol. You definitely will want a long HCG blast.

Given the poly drug abuse, you will feel depressed. Get antidepressants or other head meds if necessary, and do as much cardio as you can.

Given the cocaine usage, it is probably best if you transition completely to a heavy cardio workout and lifestyle. Cocaine causes structural changes to the heart, worse than anything else, but possibly can be healed with vigorous, HIT cardio. Blood pressure meds are probably advisable at this age too.

Also, your hematocrit level is probably through the roof. Give blood as often as you need to in order to get your levels to less than say 45%. You may have to hit the red cross, local hospitals, etc. You will feel a lot better.

Having been down this road before, keep on these forums and reach out anytime you feel like you're slipping. Chances are you will get over this much more easily than you think, and 6 months from now you'll be tempted to jump back on. Don't do it.
 
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