Ready For The Beating PCT

[The pool man 12]

Ok so my plan originally was to run test p and tren a 350mg each per week for 12 weeks pinning eod. My anger and moodiness got out of control so I was going to up the tren dose and slightly lower my test dose to maybe finish it out. My girlfriend convinced me to stop the cycle all together three days ago. Here is my problem. I only have Nolva on hand for PCT. I understand it can increase prolactin which the tren has already done. I also read another forum where that was not true and Nolva was the best pct. I took my first dose of Nolva today and then started reading what a bad idea it was in many forums to take it alone. I can order some clomid and/or hcg and get it here by Monday probably. What should I do at this point? Keep taking the Nolva and start clomid with it or hcg on Monday with it or keep pinning test this week and start a pct I assume of clomid/nolva and hcg if i should?

I know I should have had my full pct ready from the start but i didn't think I would be stopping 3 weeks early either. Any help would be appreciated.

Also my last question if nolva actually can not be used alone after tren due to raising prolactin levels then how does nolva/clomid prevent prolactin levels from increasing?

Fire away!

 

[The pool man 12]

I wanted to add this:

The myth of using Nolva with 19-Nor Nandrolones:

There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and one of the biggest things being spread around is to not use Nolvadex during a cycle with nandrolones such as Tren or Deca, and not in PCT. The argument is that Nolva will up-regulate progesterone receptor activity, and since Nandrolones can increase progesterone levels, the combination leads to possible gyno problems. However, this is very far from the actual truth. (Nolva) Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist as we said earlier and behaves as such. In certain tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the PgR would be expected, since the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where there is confusion that leads to the myth.In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist and blocks the estrogen receptor. The progesterone receptor is synthesized in direct response to estrogen. When the estrogen receptor is blocked, the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is exactly the mechanism of action that happens in cancer patients, so we can expect the same result.

There are no studies stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue, so its pure "bro-science" and speculation. As with most things on the Internet, if you spread false information around to enough people it eventually gets accepted as the truth. It is important to also note that Tamoxifen does nothing to combat prolactin. To control prolactin, caber or Prami is taken.

 

[Flaming Dragon]

Ok so my plan originally was to run test p and tren a 350mg each per week for 12 weeks pinning eod. My anger and moodiness got out of control so I was going to up the tren dose and slightly lower my test dose to maybe finish it out. My girlfriend convinced me to stop the cycle all together three days ago. Here is my problem. I only have Nolva on hand for PCT. I understand it can increase prolactin which the tren has already done. I also read another forum where that was not true and Nolva was the best pct. I took my first dose of Nolva today and then started reading what a bad idea it was in many forums to take it alone. I can order some clomid and/or hcg and get it here by Monday probably. What should I do at this point? Keep taking the Nolva and start clomid with it or hcg on Monday with it or keep pinning test this week and start a pct I assume of clomid/nolva and hcg if i should?

I know I should have had my full pct ready from the start but i didn't think I would be stopping 3 weeks early either. Any help would be appreciated.

Also my last question if nolva actually can not be used alone after tren due to raising prolactin levels then how does nolva/clomid prevent prolactin levels from increasing?

Fire away!

Nolva's fine until you can get Clomid.. Make sure you have some AI's ready to combat increase estro (estro=prolactin).

When you said the girlfriend convinced you.. meaning she's not giving that pussy unless you stop

 

[Dr JIM]

Ok so my plan originally was to run test p and tren a 350mg each per week for 12 weeks pinning eod. My anger and moodiness got out of control so I was going to up the tren dose and slightly lower my test dose to maybe finish it out. My girlfriend convinced me to stop the cycle all together three days ago. Here is my problem. I only have Nolva on hand for PCT. I understand it can increase prolactin which the tren has already done. I also read another forum where that was not true and Nolva was the best pct. I took my first dose of Nolva today and then started reading what a bad idea it was in many forums to take it alone. I can order some clomid and/or hcg and get it here by Monday probably. What should I do at this point? Keep taking the Nolva and start clomid with it or hcg on Monday with it or keep pinning test this week and start a pct I assume of clomid/nolva and hcg if i should?

I know I should have had my full pct ready from the start but i didn't think I would be stopping 3 weeks early either. Any help would be appreciated.

Also my last question if nolva actually can not be used alone after tren due to raising prolactin levels then how does nolva/clomid prevent prolactin levels from increasing?

Fire away!

Oh yea your GF is correct but for another reason mate. You really need to develop a much better understanding of the differences bt the varied anabolic agents, PCT and cycling in general.

1) For instance 19-Nor AAS do NOT increase prolactin OR progesterone levels

2) That AAS which is more likely to increase one's anger and agitation is TREN rather than Test, and you increased the dosage of the more likely culprit

3) One "rule" of cycling is to ensure ALL the necessary medications required for the complications of AAS are ON HAND.

Good luck

jim

 

[Burrr]

Why not just run the test for the last three weeks, get that tren out of your system, and get all the shit you need for PCT.

 

[The pool man 12]

Why not just run the test for the last three weeks, get that tren out of your system, and get all the shit you need for PCT.

That is what I did.

 

[Dr JIM]

I wanted to add this:

The myth of using Nolva with 19-Nor Nandrolones:

There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and one of the biggest things being spread around is to not use Nolvadex during a cycle with nandrolones such as Tren or Deca, and not in PCT. The argument is that Nolva will up-regulate progesterone receptor activity, and since Nandrolones can increase progesterone levels, the combination leads to possible gyno problems. However, this is very far from the actual truth. (Nolva) Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist as we said earlier and behaves as such. In certain tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the PgR would be expected, since the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where there is confusion that leads to the myth.In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist and blocks the estrogen receptor. The progesterone receptor is synthesized in direct response to estrogen. When the estrogen receptor is blocked, the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is exactly the mechanism of action that happens in cancer patients, so we can expect the same result.

There are no studies stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue, so its pure "bro-science" and speculation. As with most things on the Internet, if you spread false information around to enough people it eventually gets accepted as the truth. It is important to also note that Tamoxifen does nothing to combat prolactin. To control prolactin, caber or Prami is taken.

I don't know where you obtained this "info" from but it's grossly flawed.

 

[The pool man 12]

I don't know where you obtained this "info" from but it's grossly flawed.

Which parts. I far from know everything. I am just trying to soak in as much as I can and educate myself as much as possible.

 

[Dr JIM]

First and foremost the reason SERMS are effective in breast CA patients is bc they inhibit the influence of E-2 dependent growth factors on malignant breast tissue by occupying the estrogen receptor.

This entire process has NOTHING to do with PG receptors, even though roughly 20% of breast cancers are Progesterone receptor dependent.

More importantly, bc neither 19Nor AAS or SERMS effect progesterone OR serum prolactin levels, the use of dopamine agonists is just NOT warranted in those whom are using either drug.

(You may also want to take note of the fact dopamine agonists like Gaber or Bromocriptine are often used as adjunctive therapy for GIANTISM and as such can significantly lower GH levels)

Finally equating the MOA of any Cancer drug to its effect on normal folk is inherently flawed.

That's bc the metabolic processes of cancer cells is grossly deranged by definition, which is the antithesis or "normal" cellular physiology.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

I wanted to add this:

The myth of using Nolva with 19-Nor Nandrolones:

There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and one of the biggest things being spread around is to not use Nolvadex during a cycle with nandrolones such as Tren or Deca, and not in PCT. The argument is that Nolva will up-regulate progesterone receptor activity, and since Nandrolones can increase progesterone levels, the combination leads to possible gyno problems. However, this is very far from the actual truth. (Nolva) Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist as we said earlier and behaves as such. In certain tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the PgR would be expected, since the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where there is confusion that leads to the myth.In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist and blocks the estrogen receptor. The progesterone receptor is synthesized in direct response to estrogen. When the estrogen receptor is blocked, the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is exactly the mechanism of action that happens in cancer patients, so we can expect the same result.

There are no studies stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue, so its pure "bro-science" and speculation. As with most things on the Internet, if you spread false information around to enough people it eventually gets accepted as the truth. It is important to also note that Tamoxifen does nothing to combat prolactin. To control prolactin, caber or Prami is taken.

This is the old , "If you cant dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit" but that being said there is no issue with taking nolva with a 19-nor at all. So while the route taken is pretty fucked up the location reached is the right one.

HCG should never be used in pct. IMO it should be used on cycle up to 3 days pre pct, but not in pct. Can it be "blasted" pre pct and stopped 3 days before pct starts, yes, but thats not the best method IMO. Run it on cycle, keep the leydig cells functioning.

Start the Nolva pct, order some clomid and add it in with the nolva at 25mg/day till the end of your pct.

Wasnt this exact same thing posted and discussed like 2 months ago by you and you had the same concerns and you still haven't figured out what you are going to do? I was reading this thread and it felt like Deja Vu almost word for word. Am I crazy?

 

[Dr JIM]

I agree with everyone of your comments JI but the effects of HCG are largely those of enhanced spermatogenesis when AAS are run at traditional dosages.

That's to say based on TRT data, higher dosages of HCH are needed to achieve proportional improvements in one's TT level as that level increases.

For example, while a patient with a baseline TT of only 150ng/dl may require only 250 IU of HCG to reach a level of 300ng/dl, the amount of HCG required may double for a patient to reach 650ng/dl from a baseline of 500ng/dl.

This data is entirely consistent with evidence the HCG/Testosterone dose response curve peaks in the neighborhood of 1500ng/dl, regardless of the HCG dose used.

Consequently the effects of HCG on Leydig cell function are largely blunted when cycling.

For that reason I'm of the opinion the most cost effective use of HCG is immediately before and after a cycle ends.

That being said, I certainly respect your experience in an area of BB that requires considerably more research before definitive conclusions are reached.

Regs
Jim.