Republicans 2016

Discussion in 'Political Discourse' started by Michael Scally MD, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Ravtech

    Ravtech Member

    Being moderate doesn't mean not having an opinion, it means that you're willing to accept the possibility that someone else may have a valid point of view instead of just saying "fuck you, you're not on my team so you're an idiot". Instead of being whiny bitches saying it's my way or no way there are some people willing to negotiate and each make concessions for the greater good. A large number of the founding fathers were strongly against slavery and wanted it to be banned, but a large enough number of them had a vested interest in keeping slavery legal. Instead of all of them saying fuck it and walking away (like politicians do today), they compromised and left slavery legal for the time while still giving blacks partial personhood. This sounds fucked up but before being counted as 3/5 of a person they weren't even acknowledged as being people, so this was a huge step. This was a moderate political action. I'd also be interested in seeing ANY form of proof that working across the aisle means growth of government, to the best of my knowledge it is almost always a response to a national security or economic crisis that gets railroaded through congress by whoever is in the majority.
    fit2beking likes this.
  2. fit2beking

    fit2beking Member

    Now you are getting into some real deep discussion here...Based on previous post I do not expect it to be a good debate between you the logical guy and the other guy who is not offering anything logical but name calling.
  3. Ravtech

    Ravtech Member

    Yeah I didn't expect a very enlightened discussion to ensue but I got bored waiting for an inspector to show up at work lol.
  4. zkt

    zkt Member

    Blacks are 2/3 of a person?
    Check my avatar and position here.
    Death to racists and bigots.
    Experience the joy of life.
  5. cvictorg

    cvictorg Member

    I take it you don't remember Iran-Contra?

    Iran-Contra Affair
    The Iran-Contra Affair was a clandestine action not approved of by the United States Congress. It began in 1985, when President Ronald Reagan's administration supplied weapons to Iran¹ — a sworn enemy — in hopes of securing the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by Hezbollah terrorists loyal to the Ayatollah Khomeini, Iran's leader. This article is rooted in the Iran Hostage Crisis.

    The U.S. took millions of dollars from the weapons sale and routed them and guns to the right-wing "Contra"² guerrillas in Nicaragua. The Contras were the armed opponents of Nicaragua's Sandinista Junta of National Reconstruction, following the July 1979 overthrow of strongman Anastasio Somoza Debayle and the ending of the Somoza family's 43-year reign.

    Illegal trading

    The transactions that took place in the Iran-Contra scandal were contrary to the legislation of the Democratic-dominated Congress and contrary to official Reagan administration policy.

    Part of the deal was that, in July 1985, the United States would send 508 American-made TOW anti-tank missiles from Israel to Iran for the safe exchange of a hostage, the Reverend Benjamin Weir.

    After that successful transfer, the Israelis offered to ship 500 HAWK surface-to-air missiles to Iran in November 1985, in exchange for the release of all remaining American hostages being held in Lebanon. Eventually the arms were sold with proceeds going to the contras, and the hostages were released.

    In February 1986, 1,000 TOW missiles were shipped to Iran. From May to November, there were more shipments of various weapons and parts.

    Eventually Hezbollah elected to kidnap more hostages following their release of the previous ones, which rendered meaningless any further dealings with Iran.

    The affair is exposed

    It was not until 1986 that word had gotten out about the secret transactions. The Lebanese magazine Ash-Shiraa published a series of articles in November 1986, that exposed the weapons-for-hostages deal. On November 18th, 1987, the Congress issued a report on the affair that stated the president bore "ultimate responsibility."

    Upon further investigation, Attorney General Edwin Meese verified the report and an independent special prosecutor, Lawrence E. Walsh, was assigned to investigate the deals involving the arms sale and the Contra support.

    President Reagan appointed a review board, headed by former Republican Senator John Tower. The Tower Commission's report concluded that the president had been inefficient in controlling the National Security Council, the agency that had actually made the illegal deals, and had known about the arms sale to the Iranians. However, it could not be discovered in hearings if the president had known about the Contra support.

    Court hearings and convictions

    The hearings surrounding the scandals were televised from May to August in 1987. Military aide Marine Lt. Colonel Oliver North, former CIA chief William J. Casey, National Security Advisor John Poindexter, former defense secretary Caspar Weinberger, and many other high-ranking government officials were publicly investigated.

    It was finally found that National Security Advisor Poindexter had personally authorized the diversion of money to the Contra rebels; all the while withholding the information from President Reagan. The CIA's William J. Casey played a part in the conspiracy, but he died during the hearings.

    As a military aide to the National Security Council, North had been the main negotiator. During his hearings he repeatedly explained that he was "under orders from his superiors." North's plea of innocence was overlooked, and in May 1989, he was convicted of obstructing Congress and unlawfully destroying government documents. A few years later, when George H.W. Bush was president, North's conviction was expunged on the grounds that he had acted strictly out of patriotism.

    Poindexter was convicted in April 1990 on five counts of deceiving Congress and sentenced to six months in prison. Two years later, Weinberger also was convicted of five counts of deceiving Congress. Both Poindexter and Weinberger's convictions were overturned — which relieved them of any accumulated responsibility.

    On Christmas Eve 1992, President Bush issued presidential pardons to all indicted in the scandal. The Iran-Contra Affair was ended.

    Understanding the Iran-Contra Affairs

    The Iran-Contra Affair 20 Years On
  6. kawilt

    kawilt Member

    Gosh, if I remember right our dealings with the Contra's also goes back to the early 80s if not before.... Barry Seals, Homestead Air force Base, Mena Arkansas, Bill Clinton....Brings back fond memories.

    And remember "History is written by the victors"
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  7. cvictorg

    cvictorg Member

    Proof of the BULLSHIT Bill Clinton drug involvement!!

    And don't give me CRAP like this - do not insult our intelligence
  8. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Ted Cruz to the Future™ - Comic Coloring Activity Book
    Coloring Books | Ted Cruz to the Future - Comic Coloring Activity Book

    Some of the “non-partisan, fact-driven” things children will learn from the new book are:

    • Ted Cruz Is A Man Of Great Virility And Stamina: Many “career establishment politicians are far too out of shape, old or overweight to even perform such a magnificent feat” as standing on the Senate floor and talking for over 21 hours. But not Ted Cruz!
    • Ted Cruz Can See The Future: Cruz spoke with “clairvoyant precision” about the “quickly approaching Obama Care disaster.
    • Cruz Is The Constitution’s Guardian: Ted Cruz is a “passionate fighter for limited government, economic growth, and the Constitution.
    • America Is A Christian Nation: American history is “replete with official references to the value and invocation of Divine guidance, including official Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, House and Senate chaplains, the national motto ‘In God We Trust,” the Pledge of Allegiance, [and] religious paintings in the National Gallery.” So hands off those government-sponsored Ten Commandments monuments!
    • Providing Health Care To People Who Can’t Afford It Is Worse Than War: Cruz’s failed stand against the Affordable Care Act “was so important because millions of citizens believe Obama Care is worse than any war. At least American soldiers have weapons with which to defend themselves.”

  9. Mike Oxbig

    Mike Oxbig Member

    Maybe the Pubs would have better luck next go around if they started circulating these:

    Michael Scally MD likes this.
  10. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Maybe, it was the cigar!
  11. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Accounts of Petty Retribution Reinforce Christie’s Bullying Image

  12. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy
    Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy -

  13. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

  14. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Chris Christie 2016: A Bridge to Nowhere
    Chris Christie 2016: A Bridge to Nowhere -- Daily Intelligencer

    ThatLittleMonster likes this.
  15. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Chris Christie: ‘People will be held responsible’
    Chris Christie: ‘People will be held responsible’ - Elizabeth Titus and Maggie Haberman -

  16. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Attached Files:

  17. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Christie scandal: 5 things we don't know
    Christie scandal: 5 things we don't know | TheHill

    The unanswered ‘Bridgegate’ questions
    The unanswered ‘Bridgegate’ questions - Maggie Haberman -

    GWB probe targets Christie's office; renewal of subpoena power expected
    GWB probe targets Christie's office; renewal of subpoena power expected -
  18. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    [ame=]Bruce Springsteen & Jimmy Fallon: "Gov. Christie Traffic Jam" ("Born To Run" Parody) - YouTube[/ame]
  19. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    A bridge to where? A scandal and Chris Christie's future
    A bridge to where? A scandal and Chris Christie's future | New Hampshire Editorials

    The George Washington Bridge traffic jam scheme apparently hatched in New Jesey Gov. Chris Christie's executive offices is a legitimate political scandal of undetermined magnitude. Pundits who dismiss it as a non-issue seem to a) assume that nothing more will be discovered, b) discount how serious a violation of public trust the lane closures were, and c) not know how passionate New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary voters are about the misuse of state power.

    On Aug. 13 of last year, Bridget Kelly, deputy chief of staff to Gov. Christie, emailed David Wildstein, a Christie appointee at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey: "Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee." Wildstein emailed back, "Got it." Weeks later, the Port Authority closed two access lanes for the George Washington Bridge — the world's busiest — in Fort Lee.

    Regarding the closures, the public knows little more than that. Were they retribution for Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich, a Democrat, not endorsing Christie for governor? (The Wall Street Journal identified then-Christie aide Matt Mowers, now the executive director of the New Hampshire Republican Party, as the staffer sent to ask Sokolich to consider endorsing Christie.) Were they to harm a big development in Fort Lee? The motive remains a mystery, as does the full list of participants.

    Two legislative committees in New Jersey are scheduled to begin investigating the closures today. What they and some enterprising journalists find is likely to determine whether Christie strides into New Hampshire next year as a viable presidential candidate.

    If Christie was telling the truth when he spent two hours last Thursday denying any involvement in or knowledge of the scheme to close those lanes, he can weather this storm, though trusting staffers capable of such vindictiveness will be considered a mark against him. If he was not telling the truth, his political career should be finished. The American public must not tolerate any politician of any party who would callously turn the machinery of the state against the people for his own personal gain.
  20. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine

    Christie camp held Sandy relief money hostage, mayor alleges
    Christie camp held Sandy relief money hostage, mayor alleges | MSNBC