Reverse Dieting After a Cut – Worth It or Just a Slow Bulk Transition?

[ackmack78]

Im 8 days into ending my cut and trying to find my maintenance. Ended my cut at 164.4lb with that weekly avg being 165.2. I ate 1700 cals > 1800 cals > 2300 cals > yesterday i ate 2500 cals and this morning I woke up at 164.6 lol so im thinking i’m gonna try 2500 cals a day and get a weekly avg for a couple weeks and see what happens.

This is how you get fat. By making 4 cal adjustments in 1 week.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

This is how you get fat. By making 4 cal adjustments in 1 week.

i know. i need to get out of my head and stick to a number and see what happens. i just got annoyed seeing the scale go down after feeling like I had ate so much for the last few days. plan is set in stone. 2500 cals, keep everything else the same (10k steps daily), and see weekly average

 

[Deadpool99]

This is how you get fat. By making 4 cal adjustments in 1 week.

For me I started adding 100 cals every 2 days and then slowly built up back to my presumed maintenance calories based on experience.

Then I hold it for 3-4 days and see if weight stays the same. Then we work from there. Atleast how I am approaching my first reverse diet.

 

[BigDadd7]

i know. i need to get out of my head and stick to a number and see what happens. i just got annoyed seeing the scale go down after feeling like I had ate so much for the last few days. plan is set in stone. 2500 cals, keep everything else the same (10k steps daily), and see weekly average

So you know better, but you keep making bad decisions. You need a better relationship with food and nutrition.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

So you know better, but you keep making bad decisions. You need a better relationship with food and nutrition.

I have zero experience in trying to gain weight. Ive always been overweight so ive been chronically in a calorie deficit or trying to be in one, until i discovered reta and locked in for 12 weeks and now im finally 14-16% BF.

So i know how calories and weight tracking works, but ive never done it the opposite way where I need to gain weight, so what numbers I need to hit will be a guessing game for a few weeks it seems like

 

[Deadpool99]

So you know better, but you keep making bad decisions. You need a better relationship with food and nutrition.

I have zero experience in trying to gain weight. Ive always been overweight so ive been chronically in a calorie deficit or trying to be in one, until i discovered reta and locked in for 12 weeks and now im finally 14-16% BF.

So i know how calories and weight tracking works, but ive never done it the opposite way where I need to gain weight, so what numbers I need to hit will be a guessing game for a few weeks it seems like

Apparently he lacks experience, stumbled upon a golden nugget of advice (never seen this high quality of advice and instructions for any topic like the one you gave) then doesn’t follow it and complains. Am I following correctly?

 

[ackmack78]

I have zero experience in trying to gain weight. Ive always been overweight so ive been chronically in a calorie deficit or trying to be in one, until i discovered reta and locked in for 12 weeks and now im finally 14-16% BF.

So i know how calories and weight tracking works, but ive never done it the opposite way where I need to gain weight, so what numbers I need to hit will be a guessing game for a few weeks it seems like

At 15%bf you have a lot less leeway to getting it wrong. I'm almost reluctant to even call it a reverse, usually we're talking about people getting to 10% or even leaner. At that high of a body fat you really need to stick with your calories for 2 weeks and see how your body reacts. A couple more calorie adjustments and you could be knocking at 20% pretty quickly.

 

[malfeasance]

i know. i need to get out of my head and stick to a number and see what happens. i just got annoyed seeing the scale go down after feeling like I had ate so much for the last few days. plan is set in stone. 2500 cals, keep everything else the same (10k steps daily), and see weekly average

Stay consistent, the same thing every day. If you still drop weight after a week or two, then adding 300 calories, all from carbs. Keep fats low. Proteins high, always, whether cutting or bulking.

Sooner or later, your weight will stabilize, then you will start to gain. Done right, you will stay relatively lean while gaining (assuming you are starting from a lean state - sorry, I cannot remember what you look like). At some point, even if it is years from now, you will be force feeding to gain weight, and the tracking will be necessary because you do not want to eat any more food, and the tracking shows you need one more meal before you go to sleep . . . I've been there. It it sucks.

 

[MisterT]

Fuck the reverse. If you were properly tracking and weighing daily you should have a 90%+ correct TDEE to jump right back up to.

Macrofactor is great for this. The first week you'll probably jump back up 5-10lb from filling out/up and then eat what it says your TDEE is for a few weeks and adjust after.

ZERO reason to reverse if you don't struggle with binging. You're just making everything take longer to get back to normal by reversing.

TDLR: I went from 1500 Calories to 3500 Calories and jumped from 198 to about 210 and stayed at 210 for 4 weeks on 3500. This cut I have done 2000-2200- now 2300 and I will maybe raise it one more time to 2400 next week or two and rock that till Nov 24th where I will jump right up to 3200 for two weeks then 3500 for two weeks before reassessing. I've enjoyed this cut way more than the 6 months I did on 1500, I have lost no strength and still have tons of energy. I have lost about 19 pounds of Fat since Aug 19th with this cut.

I should add I got a dexa before and after the 4-5 week break at 3500 calories which includes a week in DR where I ate tons of pizza and cakes and alcohol at an All Inclusive and I only gained 1.12 Pounds of fat during that 5 week period and obv water but was up like 13 pounds of "lean" mass

 

[malfeasance]

Fuck the reverse. If you were properly tracking and weighing daily you should have a 90%+ correct TDEE to jump right back up to.

Macrofactor is great for this. The first week you'll probably jump back up 5-10lb from filling out/up and then eat what it says your TDEE is for a few weeks and adjust after.

ZERO reason to reverse if you don't struggle with binging. You're just making everything take longer to get back to normal by reversing.

TDLR: I went from 1500 Calories to 3500 Calories and jumped from 198 to about 210 and stayed at 210 for 4 weeks on 3500. This cut I have done 2000-2200- now 2300 and I will maybe raise it one more time to 2400 next week or two and rock that till Nov 24th where I will jump right up to 3200 for two weeks then 3500 for two weeks before reassessing. I've enjoyed this cut way more than the 6 months I did on 1500, I have lost no strength and still have tons of energy. I have lost about 19 pounds of Fat since Aug 19th with this cut.

I should add I got a dexa before and after the 4-5 week break at 3500 calories which includes a week in DR where I ate tons of pizza and cakes and alcohol at an All Inclusive and I only gained 1.12 Pounds of fat during that 5 week period and obv water but was up like 13 pounds of "lean" mass

So don't leave out the punch line! What did Dexascan say your body fat percentage was?

 

[MisterT]

So don't leave out the punch line! What did Dexascan say your body fat percentage was?

Which date? Oct 21 I scanned in @ 11.5% weighing 193ish (6’3)

 

[malfeasance]

Decently lean. Good job.

 

[MisterT]

Decently lean. Good job.

Thank you! Haven't been this lean since Teenage years and it feels great. Hoping I am single digits by the 24th and time for a proper lean bulk after. Just in time for the Holidays

 

[AlexDavis43]

I have zero experience in trying to gain weight. Ive always been overweight so ive been chronically in a calorie deficit or trying to be in one, until i discovered reta and locked in for 12 weeks and now im finally 14-16% BF.

So i know how calories and weight tracking works, but ive never done it the opposite way where I need to gain weight, so what numbers I need to hit will be a guessing game for a few weeks it seems like

Apparently he lacks experience, stumbled upon a golden nugget of advice (never seen this high quality of advice and instructions for any topic like the one you gave) then doesn’t follow it and complains. Am I following correctly?

At 15%bf you have a lot less leeway to getting it wrong. I'm almost reluctant to even call it a reverse, usually we're talking about people getting to 10% or even leaner. At that high of a body fat you really need to stick with your calories for 2 weeks and see how your body reacts. A couple more calorie adjustments and you could be knocking at 20% pretty quickly.

Agree, unless you really know what you're doing, might want to reconsider bulking when you're 15% body fat

 

[Turkeybuilder]

Agree, unless you really know what you're doing, might want to reconsider bulking when you're 15% body fat

lean bulk (small calorie surplus) on my first ever cycle (500mg/test) while keeping my reta at 4mg every 6 days. hoping most of my weight gained will be muscle and then i'll go on another cut after. that's the plan. Waiting for rebound water weight to come on the scale then after that I don't plan on adding more than 10-15lb during my 12-16 week lean bulk.

So currently i'm 165lb, theoretically once i get my "water weight" back im expecting to be around 170, i won't go further than 180-185.

 

[malfeasance]

lean bulk (small calorie surplus) on my first ever cycle (500mg/test) while keeping my reta at 4mg every 6 days. hoping most of my weight gained will be muscle and then i'll go on another cut after. that's the plan. Waiting for rebound water weight to come on the scale then after that I don't plan on adding more than 10-15lb during my 12-16 week lean bulk.

So currently i'm 165lb, theoretically once i get my "water weight" back im expecting to be around 170, i won't go further than 180-185.

You did not say how tall you are, but, assuming you are average height or so, at 165 pounds, there is no reason you cannot do both.

A lot of guys posting here are well past their natural weights and need to actively do one or the other.

At 165 pounds, most guys can do both at the same time, add muscle and decrease fat. It takes self control and consistency in the diet. Every day. Boring food used as fuel, and your food determined not by what you want to eat, but programming from your calorie tracker hitting exact calorie and macro counts each and every day with no deviation. That and 500mg of testosterone will do wonders over 10-12 weeks.

I have never tried reta, and I have no experience with it, so I cannot comment on whether your use of it is good or bad in this context.

No need to "bulk" in the traditional sense that bodybuilders mean when trying to increase their weight from 215 to over 230.

I have long said that beginners to steroids can do both, and I mean it. I did, and I had a base of lifting for decades and already was reasonably lean, but I added bodyweight (quite a bit, actually) and came out visibly much leaner.

My diet was very tight and boring and controlled with no cheating for three months, though.

Some guys from another steroid board took pity on me (after informing me my diet was "crap" and so on, until I finally posted, "Hey, that doesn't help me," somebody laid out one of those boring chicken and rice type old school diets, and I stuck to it, and, well, damn it, it worked - I actually started the diet a month before my first cycle, and it was already making changes during that month, and the 500mg of testosterone just accelerated those changes into overdrive)

 

[malfeasance]

reta is bad if it keeps you from getting in your protein requirements.

It is tough enough to eat that much grilled chicken breast even with your appetite unsuppressed.

And that is merely a speculative comment. Like I said, I have no experience with it.

 

[Nunya]

Fuck the reverse. If you were properly tracking and weighing daily you should have a 90%+ correct TDEE to jump right back up to.

Macrofactor is great for this. The first week you'll probably jump back up 5-10lb from filling out/up and then eat what it says your TDEE is for a few weeks and adjust after.

ZERO reason to reverse if you don't struggle with binging. You're just making everything take longer to get back to normal by reversing.

TDLR: I went from 1500 Calories to 3500 Calories and jumped from 198 to about 210 and stayed at 210 for 4 weeks on 3500. This cut I have done 2000-2200- now 2300 and I will maybe raise it one more time to 2400 next week or two and rock that till Nov 24th where I will jump right up to 3200 for two weeks then 3500 for two weeks before reassessing. I've enjoyed this cut way more than the 6 months I did on 1500, I have lost no strength and still have tons of energy. I have lost about 19 pounds of Fat since Aug 19th with this cut.

I should add I got a dexa before and after the 4-5 week break at 3500 calories which includes a week in DR where I ate tons of pizza and cakes and alcohol at an All Inclusive and I only gained 1.12 Pounds of fat during that 5 week period and obv water but was up like 13 pounds of "lean" mass

So when I asked my coach this question the reason for why not had to do with down regulation of metabolism meaning TDEE might NOT be what you think, and also giving hunger/satiety/sex hormones to recover a bit more slowly. AND he said that the body is highly anabolic after a cut but if you jump up too fast most of that weight gain gets put on as fat when you COULD be maximizing gains with lean tissue.

I don't think the body is in this case as simple as numbers on a spreadsheet but what do I know...

 

[Turkeybuilder]

reta is bad if it keeps you from getting in your protein requirements.

It is tough enough to eat that much grilled chicken breast even with your appetite unsuppressed.

And that is merely a speculative comment. Like I said, I have no experience with it.

I lowered my dose to a point where I can comfortably get down whatever food I need to, the only reason i’m still on it is for the effects it has on fat. It promotes using fat as energy source, even in a surplus.

Appetite supression is very marginal for me at this point with 4mg/wk

You did not say how tall you are, but, assuming you are average height or so, at 165 pounds, there is no reason you cannot do both.

A lot of guys posting here are well past their natural weights and need to actively do one or the other.

At 165 pounds, most guys can do both at the same time, add muscle and decrease fat. It takes self control and consistency in the diet. Every day. Boring food used as fuel, and your food determined not by what you want to eat, but programming from your calorie tracker hitting exact calorie and macro counts each and every day with no deviation. That and 500mg of testosterone will do wonders over 10-12 weeks.

I have never tried reta, and I have no experience with it, so I cannot comment on whether your use of it is good or bad in this context.

No need to "bulk" in the traditional sense that bodybuilders mean when trying to increase their weight from 215 to over 230.

I have long said that beginners to steroids can do both, and I mean it. I did, and I had a base of lifting for decades and already was reasonably lean, but I added bodyweight (quite a bit, actually) and came out visibly much leaner.

My diet was very tight and boring and controlled with no cheating for three months, though.

Some guys from another steroid board took pity on me (after informing me my diet was "crap" and so on, until I finally posted, "Hey, that doesn't help me," somebody laid out one of those boring chicken and rice type old school diets, and I stuck to it, and, well, damn it, it worked - I actually started the diet a month before my first cycle, and it was already making changes during that month, and the 500mg of testosterone just accelerated those changes into overdrive)

I am 5’7 and a half (the half is important)
I dont think im very close to my natural limit so im banking on the idea that my first cycle can do exactly what you’re saying.
With the help of this reta i have had a very easy consistent 12 weeks during my cut of hitting my macros and calories with clean food and no veering off, and ill have no problem continuing that for my lean bulk i hope

 

[Turkeybuilder]

You did not say how tall you are, but, assuming you are average height or so, at 165 pounds, there is no reason you cannot do both.

A lot of guys posting here are well past their natural weights and need to actively do one or the other.

At 165 pounds, most guys can do both at the same time, add muscle and decrease fat. It takes self control and consistency in the diet. Every day. Boring food used as fuel, and your food determined not by what you want to eat, but programming from your calorie tracker hitting exact calorie and macro counts each and every day with no deviation. That and 500mg of testosterone will do wonders over 10-12 weeks.

I have never tried reta, and I have no experience with it, so I cannot comment on whether your use of it is good or bad in this context.

No need to "bulk" in the traditional sense that bodybuilders mean when trying to increase their weight from 215 to over 230.

I have long said that beginners to steroids can do both, and I mean it. I did, and I had a base of lifting for decades and already was reasonably lean, but I added bodyweight (quite a bit, actually) and came out visibly much leaner.

My diet was very tight and boring and controlled with no cheating for three months, though.

Some guys from another steroid board took pity on me (after informing me my diet was "crap" and so on, until I finally posted, "Hey, that doesn't help me," somebody laid out one of those boring chicken and rice type old school diets, and I stuck to it, and, well, damn it, it worked - I actually started the diet a month before my first cycle, and it was already making changes during that month, and the 500mg of testosterone just accelerated those changes into overdrive)

Super reassuring to hear your first cycle had such a good recomp effect for you, i’m real excited for mine and to see results