RHR and correlation to PED dosages.. My Experience

What are you using it for?

I am curious how many on here are using these meds to drop from normal bodyfat levels to lean vs lean to munzer level conditioning.

This concept of using gh plus sema/reta to remove last little bit of BF does seem intriguing. I love the concept of fat loss for people who are extremely lean by societal standards.
I am doing a cut, I’m not lean at all lol. Mid teens trying to go to 10%. So, easy not so aggressive, just doing semaglutide, 400 cyp and 300 primo till i reach my goal bf.
 
On trt, I range 65-70, while on small blast 400 cyp/300 primo it jumped to 80 then to 95 with semaglutide. I am already prescribed metropolol, which I have to increase to keep it below 90.
Interesting. I’m not familiar with metropolol and will have to look into that.
 
Interesting. I’m not familiar with metropolol and will have to look into that.
It’s a beta blocker, I would say nebivolol is the more famous counterpart for bb purposes but it is what’s prescribed by my doc. I have been fighting him to switch it to no avail lol.
 
My Hemo is great at 250 but keep in mind everyone is diff. Here is my mid-cycle blood work taken last week. Keep in mind that the lowish test for my dose is largely due to my daily injection protocol resulting is consistency and less crazy peaks. Bloodwork was also conducted immediately post workout.


View attachment 277369
Wow that haemotrocrit is low for a blast?
is red flushed skin in the face and neck usually haemotrocrit? I’ve had that on cycle with good blood pressure
 
Wow that haemotrocrit is low for a blast?
is red flushed skin in the face and neck usually haemotrocrit? I’ve had that on cycle with good blood pressure
Yeah, hemocrit is very personal. I know guys who have to donate at 200mg TRT and also guys running 3 grams with good hemo. All my blood markers and cholesterol seem to tolerate gear very well. My AST/ALT on the other had doesn’t… as I’ve gotten 100ALT off of 50mg pharm anavar even while utilizing on cycle support.
 
Glad to see this getting more of the recogniton that it deserves. That is, the potential RHR increase that can be expereicend with AAS use. Particularly grateful to @readalot who provided links not only here but in another thread recently that showed some discussion on t-nation about it (can't remember which thread). I think the general theory was that AAS can make you more sensitive to your own catecholamine release too, among other things.

I researched for 2 years before I took my first cycle, and of all the sides I was prepared for, not once did I see it mentioned that it could impact HR. I took my first 250mg shot of Test E, prepared for every other side effect on earth, and low and behold, from around 12 hrs later as blood levels rose, my HR was 15-20beats faster and uncomfortable - it was dreadful. Felt constantly on edge. Like being on clen, which I also can't tolerate even at low doses of 20mcg without beta-blockers, so for me there seems to be a natural sensitivity anyway.

In the end I settled on always running beta blockers alongside the gear. I've tried lower dosages of test and it still persists even until around 100mg or less per week. It also doesn't go higher with higher doses - it just kicks in straight away from around 100 onwards and I can scale to 600/700mg and it's the same rHR increase. Obviously this is not much of a threshold on the low end for use, so I simply had to either accept not taking gear, or use the beta blockers. We all know which one I was going to choose. BTW HgH does the same thing with my HR so it's definitely a no-no for me without beta blockers.

Alternatively, I've tested most other AAS too to see which have an effect, and the only ones I found not to have an impact on my RHR were boldenone, masteron, primo and DHB. Nandrolone and Tren made RHR go even higher than test. Orals do the same; var, winny and anadrol all cause it too.

The way I was able to tell what does and doesn't impact HR is because I did short periods where once test had cleared, I shot doses of mast, primo or boldenone only (each one separate - not at the same time of course) and measured its impact on my HR via fitbit over the weeks. I actually did a bolenone only run for 16 weeks at one point for this reason, so I could avoid having to use beta-blockers for once. I don't find a lack of test base causes me personally many problems - it didn't on that boldenone cycle. But i'd still always prefer to run it.

Anyway, my solution longer term has been to always run a beta blocker alongside any cycle with test, because even dosages of 100mg+ test as a base caused uncomfortable HR increases. Due to the recent post I saw by readalot, I decided to hold off on the test for now and reconsider focusing on mast/primo with as minimul test as I can. The problem with the beta blockers is the effect on memory. Nebivolol is the least egrigious, but I'd still rather not use them long term. Problem is, alongside test, unless the dose is miniscule, I have to.

Vast majority of this RHR increase due to cronotropic effect of AAS. What are your dosages?




 
Glad to see this getting more of the recogniton that it deserves. That is, the potential RHR increase that can be expereicend with AAS use. Particularly grateful to @readalot who provided links not only here but in another thread recently that showed some discussion on t-nation about it (can't remember which thread). I think the general theory was that AAS can make you more sensitive to your own catecholamine release too, among other things.
I’d be concerned about having enough estradiol if you’re using low dose test with higher doses of other steroids. Is that valid?

I didn’t know beta blockers affected memory. Why is that?

I took propranolol a couple times when very stressed and it made me feel depressed for two days and also I kept waking up 6 times a night for those two days. Never touched it again!
 
I’d be concerned about having enough estradiol if you’re using low dose test with higher doses of other steroids. Is that valid?

I didn’t know beta blockers affected memory. Why is that?

I took propranolol a couple times when very stressed and it made me feel depressed for two days and also I kept waking up 6 times a night for those two days. Never touched it again!

1) Yes that's valid - never had a problem with it personally though. As mentioned, I ran boldenone only for 16+ weeks and experienced no issues. That's why I chose it and tend to sway toward it if I'm going to do low test; it's conversion to E2. When I had bloods taken mid-cycle using it, my E2 was at the top of the range and the dose was around 1g EQ p/w at the time.

2) Not sure on the specifics but if you search it, its fairly well documented that they can impair memory. I believe it's because the catecholamines have at least some input on memory function, and so blocking them reduces that. I noticed it massively, because usually I have the memory of an elephant, but from the first week of taking propranolol I was forgetting things all the time. As soon as I stop, it reverses. Its undeniable. It happens with other beta blockers too, although with nebivolol I don't notice it much. It's mostly the nonselective ones like propranolol that're the problem

Also yes, depression and sleep issues are other commonly associated issues with nonselective beta blockers - propranolol for sure.
 
1) Yes that's valid - never had a problem with it personally though. As mentioned, I ran boldenone only for 16+ weeks and experienced no issues. That's why I chose it and tend to sway toward it if I'm going to do low test; it's conversion to E2. When I had bloods taken mid-cycle using it, my E2 was at the top of the range and the dose was around 1g EQ p/w at the time.

2) Not sure on the specifics but if you search it, its fairly well documented that they can impair memory. I believe it's because the catecholamines have at least some input on memory function, and so blocking them reduces that. I noticed it massively, because usually I have the memory of an elephant, but from the first week of taking propranolol I was forgetting things all the time. As soon as I stop, it reverses. Its undeniable. It happens with other beta blockers too, although with nebivolol I don't notice it much. It's mostly the nonselective ones like propranolol that're the problem

Also yes, depression and sleep issues are other commonly associated issues with nonselective beta blockers - propranolol for sure.
Great info thanks man. What are the main problems with elevated RHR apart from discomfort? Is it a big contributor to negative heart changes?
 
Great info thanks man. What are the main problems with elevated RHR apart from discomfort? Is it a big contributor to negative heart changes?

As I intuitively just knew it couldn't be a good thing, I never looked into it too much once I had a solution. @readalot may be able to help here.

I also forgot to say (ironically) that the nonselective blockers definitely make me dumber too. I'm a good speaker usually, but when on them, I lose train of thought regularly, and struggle to find words way more than I otherwise would and stutter in sentences.

Again, it wasn't so bad I couldn't tolerate it or that others would comment, but for me personally, being particularly articulate with speech, I found it had clear effects on it and that links to the whole memory issue too. I'm on propranolol now temporarily as I ran out of nebivolol and, again ironically, cant remember if nebivolol does it to the same degree :D
 
As I intuitively just knew it couldn't be a good thing, I never looked into it too much once I had a solution. @readalot may be able to help here.

I also forgot to say (ironically) that the nonselective blockers definitely make me dumber too. I'm a good speaker usually, but when on them, I lose train of thought regularly, and struggle to find words way more than I otherwise would and stutter in sentences.

Again, it wasn't so bad I couldn't tolerate it or that others would comment, but for me personally, being particularly articulate with speech, I found it had clear effects on it and that links to the whole memory issue too. I'm on propranolol now temporarily as I ran out of nebivolol and, again ironically, cant remember if nebivolol does it to the same degree :D
Some mechanistic arguments rather than the typical "higher resting heart rate is associated with increased mortality stuff...


More "wear and tear"...

41569_2011_Article_BFnrcardio201158_Fig1_HTML.jpg

See key points in link.
 
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