RX Muscle - Insulin Debate w/ Milos Sarcev

[mands]

If their theory works so great why aren't they jacked?

Because the wised up and realized being jacked at 300 plus pounds is not healthy.

mands

 

[Wunderpus]

Be careful how you apply that study from above bc it's not saying exactly what you think it says.

What I mean is yes the carb and EAA group reduced cortisol and increased MPS but not bc it was intraworkout nutrition. If you notice, the control group received a placebo and all groups had been fasted for 4 hours. This speaks more about any nutrition around the training time is better than no nutrition and not necessarily intraworkout specifically.

Also, be careful not to confuse acute differences with chronic, long term changes.

A rough example of this being, that the more catabolic you go between meals, the more anabolic you'll become at your next meal. The acute changes in catabolism don't amount to much bc the body compensates later at the next meal.

Another example would be weight loss changes in two weeks between a keto/low carb diet and med/high carb diet. In the acute setting, 2wk timeframe, there will be more weight loss in the keto group bc of what we now know to be glycogen and water loss. Over the long term though there are no significant far loss differences between groups.

I've seen other studies, where they either feed pre or post workout carbs and it didn't have the same effect, from what I recall. I'll have to dig them up....

 

[Wunderpus]

Because the wised up and realized being jacked at 300 plus pounds is not healthy.

mands

Fuck yeah he did! He had a good career and now makes great money training people.... Not a bad move, if you ask me. Concerning when he says things like "working out with insulin felt like a waste of time"... I believe that CAN convey the wrong message to many people. Also, 700-1000g of carbs a day? Woah.

 

[Xlgx]

Fuck yeah he did! He had a good career and now makes great money training people.... Not a bad move, if you ask me. Concerning when he says things like "working out with insulin felt like a waste of time"... I believe that CAN convey the wrong message to many people. Also, 700-1000g of carbs a day? Woah.

You meant to say “without” slin.

 

[Wunderpus]

You meant to say “without” slin.

Yes, that is correct

 

[Docd187123]

I've seen other studies, where they either feed pre or post workout carbs and it didn't have the same effect, from what I recall. I'll have to dig them up....

Please do Wunder. The thing is, there are well controlled studies showing both sides of the equation but the majority of the well controlled and most applicable studies show basic equivalence. The question then becomes, if both methods work equally well....does it really matter what you do so long as you do something?

 

[Wunderpus]

Please do Wunder. The thing is, there are well controlled studies showing both sides of the equation but the majority of the well controlled and most applicable studies show basic equivalence. The question then becomes, if both methods work equally well....does it really matter what you do so long as you do something?

I'll look.

So, here's an interesting, yet totally "take it as you wish" tidbit that i've found experimenting with intra, pre and post workout nutrition... I am NEVER sore the day after training if I use intra EAAs and carbs... Even if I have carbs and protein/EAAs before and/or after, I am sore. But, if I supplement them intra workout, not sore... Strange, to me... But, it kind of makes sense if in fact muscle breakdown is lessened, and protein synthesis is heightened, right?

 

[Dr JIM]

How can three “BB gurus” spend close to one hour discussing single topic and say so little?

IME, this is to be expected when such discussions are led almost exclusively by anecdotes rather than scientific evidence, especially when a primary focus is to ensure Individual disagreements are not vocalized in an open forum.

 

[Dr JIM]

Be careful how you apply that study from above bc it's not saying exactly what you think it says.

What I mean is yes the carb and EAA group reduced cortisol and increased MPS but not bc it was intraworkout nutrition. If you notice, the control group received a placebo and all groups had been fasted for 4 hours. This speaks more about any nutrition around the training time is better than no nutrition and not necessarily intraworkout specifically.

Also, be careful not to confuse acute differences with chronic, long term changes.

A rough example of this being, that the more catabolic you go between meals, the more anabolic you'll become at your next meal. The acute changes in catabolism don't amount to much bc the body compensates later at the next meal.

Another example would be weight loss changes in two weeks between a keto/low carb diet and med/high carb diet. In the acute setting, 2wk timeframe, there will be more weight loss in the keto group bc of what we now know to be glycogen and water loss. Over the long term though there are no significant far loss differences between groups.

Excellent point DocD bc in general the physiologic effects of many independent variables,
such as Slin, require MONTHS of “exposure” before an objective determination can be rendered.

 

[Dr JIM]

Be careful how you apply that study from above bc it's not saying exactly what you think it says.

What I mean is yes the carb and EAA group reduced cortisol and increased MPS but not bc it was intraworkout nutrition. If you notice, the control group received a placebo and all groups had been fasted for 4 hours. This speaks more about any nutrition around the training time is better than no nutrition and not necessarily intraworkout specifically.

Also, be careful not to confuse acute differences with chronic, long term changes.

A rough example of this being, that the more catabolic you go between meals, the more anabolic you'll become at your next meal. The acute changes in catabolism don't amount to much bc the body compensates later at the next meal.

Another example would be weight loss changes in two weeks between a keto/low carb diet and med/high carb diet. In the acute setting, 2wk timeframe, there will be more weight loss in the keto group bc of what we now know to be glycogen and water loss. Over the long term though there are no significant far loss differences between groups.

IMO onthing is more satisfying than Meso members critically appraising a study for legitimacy
as a means to an ends — it’s practical application or utility as a PED!

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I'll look.

So, here's an interesting, yet totally "take it as you wish" tidbit that i've found experimenting with intra, pre and post workout nutrition... I am NEVER sore the day after training if I use intra EAAs and carbs... Even if I have carbs and protein/EAAs before and/or after, I am sore. But, if I supplement them intra workout, not sore... Strange, to me... But, it kind of makes sense if in fact muscle breakdown is lessened, and protein synthesis is heightened, right?

I have the same effect if my cals are extremely high. Kinda like now
There isnt a gauntlet ive tried or put myself thru that renders me sore the next day. On cycle on high calories which of course means high carbs.
Tight for sure. Sore? Nope

 

[ChestRockwell]

@ChestRockwell @mands

I'll have to save this for others as I'm layers deep in part two of my GH series for MESO right now and often can't make it through these type of videos anyway...

 

[Dr JIM]

often can't make it through these type of videos anyway...

Rest assured you’re not the only one !

 

[Brolloks]

How can three “BB gurus” spend close to one hour discussing single topic and say so little?

IME, this is to be expected when such discussions are led almost exclusively by anecdotes rather than scientific evidence, especially when a primary focus is to ensure Individual disagreements are not vocalized in an open forum.

You're the idiot, "Doctor" This a gear board, not a hospital.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

You're the idiot, "Doctor" This a gear board, not a hospital.

Right, so let's blindly inject as many different compounds as humanly possible and see what happens. And to hell with the consequences!

 

[Docd187123]

Right, so let's blindly inject as many different compounds as humanly possible and see what happens. And to hell with the consequences!

Where in the name of mother loving brownies have you been?

 

[Brolloks]

Right, so let's blindly inject as many different compounds as humanly possible and see what happens. And to hell with the consequences!

Not debating his logic bro, but the 'tude reeks.

 

[grey]

Right, so let's blindly inject as many different compounds as humanly possible and see what happens

I thought that was our standard recommended protocol here?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

.

Where in the name of mother loving brownies have you been?

Living life and having fun and that doesn't include much online activity. I've had enough of working all the time.

I trust all is well with you?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Not debating his logic bro, but the 'tude reeks.

And to think you were doing so well before this relapse...