Scally, Lab Results

[KBD]

So after 2 weeks of SERM use, and 1 shot of Triptorelin in the beginning .

My lab numbers suck ass

Total Test: 192 ng/dl
Estradiol: 27
LH: 0.2
FSH: 0.7

Guess im headed for TRT

 

[Michael Scally MD]

So after 2 weeks of SERM use, and 1 shot of Triptorelin in the beginning .

My lab numbers suck ass

Total Test: 192 ng/dl
Estradiol: 27
LH: 0.2
FSH: 0.7

Guess im headed for TRT

At this time, by no means. This is exactly why I wrote about hCG. Also, it is absolutely critical to monitor through bloodwork during treatment.

 

[KBD]

At this time, by no means. This is exactly why I wrote about hCG. Also, it is absolutely critical to monitor through bloodwork during treatment.

What do you suggest i do.

 

[Get Some]

So what would you recommend as far as an HCG/HMG protocol for him at this point? I've heard great things about HMG, what do you think about that?

 

[amar7]

measure inhibin b, which is also very important in the evaluation of hypogonadism. and how old are you?

these lab numbers, are they measured before or after you took triptorelin and a serm? It is important to make such blood tests while being of anything to get a real meaning out of it.
tripto has been widely reported to improve testicular function, but as an analogue it is more likely to cause suppression as gnrh analogues are being used as chemical castration, despite the few positive reviews

 

[KBD]

measure inhibin b, which is also very important in the evaluation of hypogonadism. and how old are you?

these lab numbers, are they measured before or after you took triptorelin and a serm? It is important to make such blood tests while being of anything to get a real meaning out of it.
tripto has been widely reported to improve testicular function, but as an analogue it is more likely to cause suppression as gnrh analogues are being used as chemical castration, despite the few positive reviews

No chemical castration with a 100mcg Dose.. 1 shot... it takes big doses over a period of time to cause this castration.

Seeing as LH Levels are so low, i am going to proceed to hit 1000iu of HCG. E3d for the next 2 weeks

 

[amar7]

i suppose hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is treatable. If you have the possibility to get an andrologist or better endocrinologist to prescribe and monitor your treatment, then this would be the way to go

stop using triptorelin and serm, then after 4-6 weeks take another blood test to have an accuracy of diagnosis.

Otherwhise I would advise you from my experience, to avoid that much of HCG. 250IU e3d is okay. Maybe a first shot of 2000IU for a "kickstart" but never that much weekly.
Despite the half life of HCG I found it to work better at a weekly intake of 500IU instead of 250IU e2d/e3d or higher dosages. You could combine it with serms, but avoid GnRH. Either GnRH or HCG, never both. And with GnRH I would avoid any analogues.

 

[KBD]

i suppose hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is treatable. If you have the possibility to get an andrologist or better endocrinologist to prescribe and monitor your treatment, then this would be the way to go

stop using triptorelin and serm, then after 4-6 weeks take another blood test to have an accuracy of diagnosis.

Otherwhise I would advise you from my experience, to avoid that much of HCG. 250IU e3d is okay. Maybe a first shot of 2000IU for a "kickstart" but never that much weekly.
Despite the half life of HCG I found it to work better at a weekly intake of 500IU instead of 250IU e2d/e3d or higher dosages. You could combine it with serms, but avoid GnRH. Either GnRH or HCG, never both. And with GnRH I would avoid any analogues.

Im not running GnRH, i only did one shot. which was 2 1/2 weeks ago.

And i got my blood results a few days ago, sooo GnRH obviously didnt cause a surge of LH because i dont have high LH lol.

Im going to hit a 1000iu of HCG today i guess and then continue 250iu every 3 days im going to stay on clomid as well.

 

[bigrobbie]

Get Some, I just posted an hmg question in pct discussion thread...lol, just read your hmg question on this thread...great minds think alike!

 

[amar7]

GnRH analogue probably caused a surge and then afterwards a supression of these gonadotropins, just like HCG has the same effect. Furthermore if you have a malfunction of the pituitary, then GnRH would have no effect.

In that case one have to use HCG or FSH/HMG and an anti-e optionally (remember, more drugs = more sides, especially with anti-e's) I had my pituitary tested and it works well at least by reacting to GnRH. Incase the pituitary is working, the use of GnRH pulsatile is the way to go and much better tolerated then HCG.

The issue with GnRH is not only the price, but also the complicated use. The best thing is to have an endocrinologist watching the GnRH therapy and the changes, because even with normal GnRH you can fuck up your system and cause supression of the axis, which we all don't want.

HCG use can (dose-dependant) cause GnRH to be ineffective too btw

 

[KBD]

GnRH analogue probably caused a surge and then afterwards a supression of these gonadotropins, just like HCG has the same effect. Furthermore if you have a malfunction of the pituitary, then GnRH would have no effect.

In that case one have to use HCG or FSH/HMG and an anti-e optionally (remember, more drugs = more sides, especially with anti-e's) I had my pituitary tested and it works well at least by reacting to GnRH. Incase the pituitary is working, the use of GnRH pulsatile is the way to go and much better tolerated then HCG.

The issue with GnRH is not only the price, but also the complicated use. The best thing is to have an endocrinologist watching the GnRH therapy and the changes, because even with normal GnRH you can fuck up your system and cause supression of the axis, which we all don't want.

HCG use can (dose-dependant) cause GnRH to be ineffective too btw

I didnt sue HCG with GnRH, i jsut took 1 shot of GnRH and continued SERMs.

So i should use HCG then? since my LH is low.

 

[amar7]

Try it with HCG 250 e3d and see how it goes from there. FSH and LH will be supressed, but Testosterone should rise. Make blood tests 6 weeks after your first intake.

Still if you give more details, like age, last use of steroids, sex/libido, one would be able give a better advice.

 

[KBD]

Try it with HCG 250 e3d and see how it goes from there. FSH and LH will be supressed, but Testosterone should rise. Make blood tests 6 weeks after your first intake.

Still if you give more details, like age, last use of steroids, sex/libido, one would be able give a better advice.

I used everything and i was on for almost 2 years.

I abused tren alot.

My sex/libido is fine, im actually waking up with strong morning wood now. Im 22.

Anyways, should i continue clomid use while on HCG. I kinda want to, it would make me feel better lol mentally.

 

[amar7]

that sounds, like you are perfectly healthy. libido is testosterone dependand.

with hcg and clomid you are basically only shifting the messed axis, not fixing it. HCG causes supression itself as mentioned above. With that said, you would need to stop taking roids and HCG. This is my estimation from the few blood values and libido you have.

Using these drugs for getting a better mental feeling is really a wrong reason. You are still young and coming off of any steroids AND PCT stuff is the only way, your body is able to restore things naturally.

You can still use serm/hcg for a while, but only from the moment you stop, it is possible to get your axis balance back. I know how it is, once you take drugs and steroids, it is like an addiction, but you have to stop.

The case is different, if you still plan to take steroids in the future, than supression of the axis is not avoidable by any means.

 

[KBD]

that sounds, like you are perfectly healthy. libido is testosterone dependand.

with hcg and clomid you are basically only shifting the messed axis, not fixing it. HCG causes supression itself as mentioned above. With that said, you would need to stop taking roids and HCG. This is my estimation from the few blood values and libido you have.

Using these drugs for getting a better mental feeling is really a wrong reason. You are still young and coming off of any steroids AND PCT stuff is the only way, your body is able to restore things naturally.

You can still use serm/hcg for a while, but only from the moment you stop, it is possible to get your axis balance back. I know how it is, once you take drugs and steroids, it is like an addiction, but you have to stop.

The case is different, if you still plan to take steroids in the future, than supression of the axis is not avoidable by any means.

Well the reason i wanted to run the clomid still was because ive had a bottle of HCG in my fridge for almost a month reconstituted soo im just going to stay on clomid for a few days after and if the HCG still works ill drop the clomid, wait.. and then jump back on clomid for another 2-4 weeks and see where im headed.

 

[KBD]

bump, scally

 

[Michael Scally MD]

KBD:

A short while back we discussed the PCT, particularly wrt to hCG. I said the approach was backwards. The testes function needs to be checked first. The use of concurrent SERM/AI is a non-issue at this point. Also, the hCG dose I read is too small. I recommend hCG 2,000 IU Q3D X 10. Check the TT after the 5-6 injection. I detailed this somewhat more recently in Steroid Forum.

 

[KBD]

KBD:

A short while back we discussed the PCT, particularly wrt to hCG. I said the approach was backwards. The testes function needs to be checked first. The use of concurrent SERM/AI is a non-issue at this point. Also, the hCG dose I read is too small. I recommend hCG 2,000 IU Q3D X 10. Check the TT after the 5-6 injection. I detailed this somewhat more recently in Steroid Forum.

Okie dokie, so 2000iu every 3 days, and then after the 5th injection check total testosterone.

Should i include HMG? 75iu EOD for 5 inj 10 days.

Also scally, during the HCG protocol will it help maintain LBM with HGH?

Cuz i feel like SHIT in the gym, however im still strong.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

i've read a lot of conflicting things about hcg dosage, i remember bill roberts suggesting no more than 500iu a day

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Okie dokie, so 2000iu every 3 days, and then after the 5th injection check total testosterone.

Should i include HMG? 75iu EOD for 5 inj 10 days.

Also scally, during the HCG protocol will it help maintain LBM with HGH?

Cuz i feel like SHIT in the gym, however im still strong.

I would not add hMG at this time.