MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
slin
- Thread starter baby-mule
- Start date
big louie
New Member
post's like this scare me..
ThePatriot
New Member
big louie said:
LMAO, yea when they only have 3 post, that can do it.
baby-mule said:
This should help you bro..research, research and research again..
Since Insulin is such a new subject for most of you the way I am going to do this post is going to be a little different. I am going to write a few sections on it then give links to a lot of different articles on the subject. I do not want to post a 10 page post that will just confuse you. My suggestion is to read this post and all the links then print out this post as instructions for your cycle. If you still have questions on this topic after reading it, let me know.
Insulin
Rating: 1-5 (Five being the highest)
4 Bulking
4 Cutting
2 Strength
n/a Testosterone Stimulation
n/a Use as an Anti-Estrogen
5 Side Effects
5 Ability to Keep Gains
Basic effects:
Increased workout Pumps
Increase in appetite
Increase the transport of nutrients into the muscle cells.
Side Effects:
Fat Gain
Hypoglycemia
Death
Stacking:
Creatine
Any roid
HGH
My first experience with Insulin:
About 2 years ago I tried insulin for the first time. I started using it 2weeks before my cycle to get use to it and figure out the best dosage for me. I worked up to using it at 10 units in the morning, 10 before I lift and 10 units after. I had a bout with Hypoglycemia only once but I felt pretty shitty for a few days after. Anyway I stacked it with
40grams/day Creatine
750mg/week Sust
300mg/week EQ
The cycle lasted 10 weeks and I put on 40lbs, keeping 30 of it. This is what you can expect from you first bout with slin.
Section 1 - The right insulin to use and why:
There are various types of insulin available but as bodybuilders we are only interested in the short acting types. The only two types that should be used are Humalog and the R (Regular) Types. The difference between the two is the time it takes them to peak and the time to leave your system. In my opinion Humalog is the better choice for new users. There are a few reasons for this.
1. Humalog starts to work within 15 minutes after taking it
2. Humalog more closely matches the action curves of the insulin produced in your body then the R type.
3. Humalog does not last as long as the R type
All of these effects make humalog easier to control then the R type. The only problem with Humalog is some states that sell R type OTC require a script for Humalog. So ask about humalog when you call. If you cant get humalog then use the R type but remember that there are differences. See below:
Humalog Regular
Onset of action within 15 minutes 30 minutes
Peak effect 30-90 minutes 2-4 hours
Duration less than 5 hours 6-8 hours
Section 2 - How to obtain Insulin:
Insulin is over the counter in many states. The best was to obtain it is directly from a pharmacy. This way you know that it has been kept cold and did not lose potency. If you do not know if Insulin is OTC in your state then try this:
1. Call a pharmacy and tell them that you are from Florida and you are going to be coming to their area for a business trip for about 1 month. Tell them that you are a diabetic and you need to know if Insulin is sold with out a script their. Explain that since you live in FL you do not have a script since it is OTC. Also ask if insulin syringes are also sold OTC since some time one is but not the other. Also try this in any bordering state that is in driving distance.
The next way to get insulin is from an online pharmacy. You can usually order it and pins with out a problem. Hear is a list of sites that sell insulin and insulin syringes:
Syringe site:
http://diabetes-care.com/order_frame.htm
Insulin site: (Note humalog requires a script on all sites I have found)
http://www.tpsmedical.com/index.html (You have to order over the phone)
http://www.fifty50.com/ http://www.diabetespartners.com/cgi...gi/st_main.html
Section 3 How to use Insulin for Beginners.
(Everything I will talk about will be using the R type since it is more available. If you can get Humalog email me if you have any questions on how to change your usage)
Now that you have your insulin let say you bought Humalin R. You need to make sure you have the right syringes. Insulin syringes are marked for units not CCs. 1 CC OF INSULIN WILL KILL YOU. So make sure you have the right type of syringes. You can order them from the sites above. Every CC of insulin has 100 units in it. When you Inject you can either Inject SubQ or Intra-muscular. Intra-muscular injections take effect about twice as quick.
Some basic rules:
1. Eat as much protein as you can plus 10grams of carbs per unit of insulin immediately after shooting the insulin.
5 units = 50 carbs
2. Keep some kind of simple carb on you at all times just incase you become hypoglycemic. A chocolate bar works well
3. Eat more protein and carbs about 2 hours after using the insulin. Around 5 grams of carbs per unit used of insulin.
4. Continually snack through out the rest of the day.
5. Try not to eat any fat for at least 4 hours after taking the insulin.
6. Try not to use insulin too late at night. You want most of it out of your system before you go to sleep
7 ***** Important ***** Be aware of the signs of Hypoglycemia:
? Shaking
? Vomiting
? headaches
? concentration problems
? visual disturbances
? muscle pain
? Weakness
? mood swings
? passing out
? Death
8. If you notice any of these signs immediately eat as many simple carbs as you can
9. Do not use any stimulants until you are use to how insulin effects you or you may mistake the signs of hypoglycemia for the effects of the stimulants.
When to take insulin:
As a beginner you should start buy just taking it after working out. Start with 4 units and work up from there. Once you reach 10 units after working out try throwing in another 10 units when you wake up in the morning. I see no need to go much over 10 units at a time. I worked my way up to 20 units and all that did was make me hypoglycemic.
Hear is what your day should look like once you reach this point:
6am wake up
6:30 am Inject 10 units of humilin R
6:31 am Eat a 12 egg white omlette and 3 waffles with enough syrup to = 100 carbs
8:30 am Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:30 am an apple and a protein bar
12:30 pm Big lunch
2:30 pm Drink a protein shake (no carbs needed)
4:30 pm Snack
5:00pm workout
6:00 pm Inject 10 units of Humalin R (Assuming this is the end of your workout)
6:01pm Tuna salad with pasta and fat free mayo. (At least 100 carbs)
8:00 Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:00 snack with some carbs
Before bed You should eat a good amount of carbs (50 or so) just to be safe
Insulin for Dieting:
Insulin can be used to get you into ketosis in 1 day. This really helps when doing any low carb diet. You will probably have to play around with the dosage to see what you need to get into ketosis.
This is what I do:
Eliminate carbs from your diet
Day 1 of the diet take 4 shots of insulin spaced 3 hours apart.
8am 2units of Humilin R
11am 2units of Humilin R
1pm 2units of Humilin R
3pm 2units of Humilin R
By the next morning I am deep into ketosis.
Why Insulin works:
Androgen/Insulin Synergy
By Michalovich Greutstein
Should anabolics be used with insulin or is it best to use insulin while off steroids in order to hold onto muscle mass?
We are going to demonstrate that they have to be used together. We will also try to provide some clues about their respective contribution to the synergy both hormones create. This will help us to handle both drugs better.
Here are some general observations:
It is safe to conclude something else is needed to uncover the full anabolic effect of steriods.The hormone which is the most affected by a high calorie or by a low calorie diet is insulin.Also, heavy ******* users know that past a certain amount of *******s, adding insulin will make a big difference as far as muscle gains are concerned.Insulin is thus a strong candidate as a potentiator of anabolic *******s (which we will indiscriminately refer to as androgens, *******s or anabolics).Furthermore, studies performed in trained dogs have shown a lack of insulin completely negates the anabolic effects of *******s on protein synthesis.There are some easy hypotheses such as a possible androgen receptor upregulation, a stimulation of androgen secretion, an antiaromatase effect arising from insulin. But, there is still something missing.
Using anabolics plus insulin will not make you much bigger unless you weight train. The synergy can only be realized if insulin + *******s + training are present. What is the link between those three factors?
A very likely candidate is an enzyme called insulinase. As its name implies, it is an enzyme responsible for the destruction of insulin. But we are going to see it does much more than that.
It is found inside many tissues of the body, particularly in muscle. What science is telling us is that insulinase is essential for insulin to provide its anti-catabolic effect on our muscles. It is also likely that insulinase is able to multiply the anabolic effects of androgens. It's worth repeating: insulin cannot stop protein catabolism without insulinase and the effects of *******s are potentiated by insulinase. It sure looks good.
Androgens are very powerful stimulators of the muscle protein synthesis rate. On the other hand, the muscle gains provided by androgens do not match this elevation in synthesis. *******s promote anabolism to a much higher rate than they make our muscles grow.
The reason for this discrepancy is that they also stimulate protein degradation. I know many people think they are anti-catabolic, but it is not the case. Anabolics stimulate protein turnover. This means they increase both synthesis and degradation of proteins. They are simply more effective at stimulating synthesis than degradation, which is why they make our muscles grow but not at a super fast rate. Look at how long it takes to grow huge muscles. If androgens were stimulating synthesis while inhibiting degradation, one would grow very, very quickly.
This is where insulin comes in. As we said, it mostly reduces protein degradation rate. It might stimulate protein synthesis right after training, but this effect is very limited in duration. Ideally, using insulin along with *******s would allow us to accelerate synthesis (thanks to anabolics) and reduce degradation (thanks to insulin). This is the best way to grow muscle fast.
Unfortunately, as both insulin and anabolics need insulinase to work better, they will compete against each other for this enzyme. For natural athletes, the supply of muscle insulinase should roughly meet the demand. Now if you add anabolics, there will be less insulinase for insulin. If you do not take too high a dose of *******s, the level of insulinase should still be sufficient to allow a fair insulin-induced anti-catabolism.
But as you take more *******s, the insulinase available for insulin will be lower and lower.
Insulin will lose its anti-catabolic effect. As it will still bind some insulinase, the enzyme availability for *******s will not be optimal either. Anabolics will lose some of their potency.
What is important to understand is that past a certain dose, anabolics will provide their own antidote against muscle growth. The only solution (beside using less *******s) is to increase insulinase level.
At least two factors can accomplish this feat:
The first one is insulin itself. The higher the insulin level is in a target organ (muscle for example) the higher the insulinase level will be. You would expect that the body would detect the shortage of insulinase for insulin and so produce more insulin (or more insulinase).
Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. While insulinase is crucial for the anti-catabolic effect of insulin, it does not seem as important for glucose disposal.
Insulin's main function is not to assist in muscle growth but to control glucose homeostasis. As a result, it is likely our body does not really care about a relative shortage of insulinase. In any case, we are left with a less than optimal equilibrium. It is up to the bodybuilder to react to this imbalance.
One way of increasing insulin secretion is to eat more, but you can only do so up to a point. You cannot increase your carb intake in parallel with the amount of *******s without getting too fat. Another solution is to use drugs to add or to stimulate insulin secretion. This way you get the insulin without the excess of calories.
In any case you now understand why *******s work better while on a high calorie diet while they lose their potency during a diet or a shortage of insulin.
Here is a way of "artificially increasing insulin level": One dose of long acting insulin first thing in the morning (this is the only injection). Before each meal (except the pre-workout one), take a sulfonylurea (an oral anti-diabetic drug which will boost food induced insulin secretion ). I like Glipizide because of its short half-life. In case you experience hypoglycemia, you know it will not last. This is the main problem with the long acting sulfonylureas. When you are hypoglycemic, you try to compensate by absorbing carbs. But the drug will make your pancreas secrete even more insulin before the carbs can hit the blood. It makes the hypoglycemia worse - not better.
In case of problems, make sure you get some ready-to-inject Glucagon (sold as "insulin emergency kits" in drugstores). An additional benefit of the Glipizide is that it induces the release of GH on top of insulin which is beneficial for non diabetics.
This is a nice way to fix the reduced anticatabolic property of insulin. Unfortunately, this will not yet provide the optimal amount of insulinase to have *******s work better.
We said that training was the third key ingredient in this synergy. This is because training can stimulate insulinase activity. Not any exercise will do. The traumatic ones inducing muscle soreness are the most effective. It is the factors inducing soreness which will trigger this increase in insulinase.
On the other hand, you do not want to create too much soreness as it will temporarily reduce the effects of insulin and androgens by impairing their effects at the level of their respective receptors. What you want is mild but frequent soreness along with some very frequent pumping sessions.
Do not forget both androgens and insulin circulate in the blood. The more blood you get into the muscles (and the longer it stays), the more your muscles will be "drenched" in those two hormones. Please note that insulinase is produced locally in the trained muscles only. It does not circulate into the blood.
bigkb
New Member
holy crap!...everything you wanted to know about insulin. Thanks PL.You said that intraM injections absorb twice as fast as sub-Qs...I thought that sub-Qs absorb faster.
KB
bigkb said:
You said that intraM injections absorb twice as fast as sub-Qs...I thought that sub-Qs absorb faster.
KB
no IM absorbs faster, thats why insulin is for SQ injection
bigkb
New Member
chris gordon said:
Thanks Chris, I thought it was the other way around.
KB
i think docs will sometimes give it IM in case of very high blood sugar, i would be skeered tho
ThePatriot
New Member
Nice info.
EatNphood
New Member
Nice info bout slin!
hewey Grant
New Member
yes great job describing a complicated subject very simply. Insulin use is something that happens and it's better if the person using it is pointed in the right direction instead of just guessing for themselves.
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