Sublingual testosterone - the best option to remain HPTA function?

[Testocyp]

I been on Test C 250mg/ew, for 4 months. Before TRT I had high total T, high SHBG and elevated LH and FSH. I have a varicocele which I think is contributing to primary hypogonadism/elevated LH, which in turn elevate SHBG to keep serum T high.. Anyway I consider coming off TRT now, but would still want something to increase my T levels on top of natural production.

I’ve read that nasal spray/Natesto is the best option to remain HPTA function, because of the fluctation in the levels. In my case it might work even better since my LH is elevated. However, I would prefer to put it under the tongue instead of the nostrils and wounder if anyone have experience with sublingual administration?

My idea is basically to use test base for injection, in oil or suspension, and use it sublingually instead, maybe mixed with something else to increase absorption.

 

[kakaboom!21]

I would prefer to put it under the tongue instead of the nostrils and wounder if anyone have experience with sublingual administration?

My idea is basically to use test base for injection, in oil or suspension, and use it sublingually instead, maybe mixed with something else to increase absorption.

Yes - if you can find raws, double micronized testosterone powder. Do not use oil sublingually. Water based test suspension has BA may also upset your stomach. I'd only use it PWO though for lagging body parts.

 

[Testocyp]

Yes - if you can find raws, double micronized testosterone powder. Do not use oil sublingually. Water based test suspension has BA may also upset your stomach. I'd only use it PWO though for lagging body parts.

Having a hard time getting raws.. Regarding the oil, won’t it absorb or what’s the issue with the oil sublingually?

 

[kakaboom!21]

Having a hard time getting raws.. Regarding the oil, won’t it absorb or what’s the issue with the oil sublingually?

Oil based testosterone is usually long ester, or at least I’ve never seen oil based test suspension. Since you want the test to be in and out of your system within hours, I’m guessing you’ll be using water based suspension.
Reason why I wouldn’t use oil either way is because just like it sticks to your fingers unless you use an emulsifier like soap, it would probably not absorb ideally through the sublingual route.
Another thing you want to consider is jawline hypertrophy. Jaw has local receptors the test will also attach to, which in long term may cause neck enlargement. This last part is mostly anecdotal, so take this with a grain of salt. Would probably depend on the dose, absorption rate and frequency.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Oil based testosterone is usually long ester, or at least I’ve never seen oil based test suspension. Since you want the test to be in and out of your system within hours, I’m guessing you’ll be using water based suspension.
Reason why I wouldn’t use oil either way is because just like it sticks to your fingers unless you use an emulsifier like soap, it would probably not absorb ideally through the sublingual route.
Another thing you want to consider is jawline hypertrophy. Jaw has local receptors the test will also attach to, which in long term may cause neck enlargement. This last part is mostly anecdotal, so take this with a grain of salt. Would probably depend on the dose, absorption rate and frequency.

Test being in oils mostly means that it will be absorbed by the chlomycrons instead of going through the general circulation.

It can be beneficial or not, depending on what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Testocyp]

Oil based testosterone is usually long ester, or at least I’ve never seen oil based test suspension. Since you want the test to be in and out of your system within hours, I’m guessing you’ll be using water based suspension.
Reason why I wouldn’t use oil either way is because just like it sticks to your fingers unless you use an emulsifier like soap, it would probably not absorb ideally through the sublingual route.

Deus Medicals testobase ”TESTOMED 100” seem to be in oil, I guess miglyol 840 with BB&BA. Found this description:
“Testosterone Base is 100% pure testosterone similar to aqueous Testosterone Suspension however Test Base is technically a solution not a suspension. Test Base contains no visible Testosterone crystals because they are in an oil and solvent solution NOT water. There are no crystals to slowly absorb into the injection site. Therefore when you inject Test Base there is a very rapid increase in blood Testosterone levels that falls off faster than standard aqueous Testosterone suspension. Test Base packs a big instant wallop when injected and is arguably the fastest Testosterone product available today. Another advantage of Test Base is you may use very small gauge needles to inject it. There are no crystals in Test Base to clog the needle so administering with an insulin syringe is an option. Test Base is ideal pre training or for power lifting or strength sports. We recommend Test Base to be administered two hours pre-training to provide increased aggression and power.

Testosterone Base Profile

• Substance: Testosterone (100%)
• Molecular weight: 288.4 g/mol
• Formula: C19H28O2
• Effective Dose: 50-150mg/day
• Active Half-life: 1 days
• Active dose: 100%
• Detection Time: 3 days”

I guess the half life isn’t the same when used nasally or sublingually. According to the description it’s very fast acting. Might work for my purpose?

 

[Testocyp]

Another thing you want to consider is jawline hypertrophy. Jaw has local receptors the test will also attach to, which in long term may cause neck enlargement. This last part is mostly anecdotal, so take this with a grain of salt. Would probably depend on the dose, absorption rate and frequency.

Is this really a concern? Can’t find anything when searching about it.. Do you have more information? I’m on Test C now and notice a more puffy look/moon face (water retention, not the same thing as jaw hypertrophy). I want to avoid this and I guess it a matter of the dosage. I wounder though if the sublingual route will promote water retention in the jaw area despite a lower dosage, because of test attaching to local receptors in the area?

 

[Testocyp]

Test being in oils mostly means that it will be absorbed by the chlomycrons instead of going through the general circulation.

It can be beneficial or not, depending on what you are trying to achieve.

What’s the pros and cons? I’m trying to prevent HPTA shutdown.

 

[mr.redpill]

Anyway I consider coming off TRT now, but would still want something to increase my T levels on top of natural production.

What’s the pros and cons? I’m trying to prevent HPTA shutdown.

So you want to come off TRT, to go on TRT?

I'm lost with this post

Exogenous testosterone in any form will suppress HPTA e.g, your natural production.

If you want high "natural test levels" look into optimization via diet and natural supplemention. Also some long term SERM + HCG therapy.

 

[Rido]

What’s the pros and cons? I’m trying to prevent HPTA shutdown.

Best way to prevent is to not do anything.

Maybe you should stick to creatine and carnitine.

or a 6 week run of anavar

 

[I6JQdr06]

So, firstly 250mg isn’t really TRT because your levels are almost certainly supraphisiological. My levels were over 52 nmol (1500ng/dl) on similar dosing.

Secondly why are you worried about shutdown if you’re already shut down? Why PCT and then continue taking test while trying to avoid the inevitable downregulation of your HPTA? Why not just stay shut down and use testosterone in whatever way you want?

Thirdly you were hyogondal but your total T and LH were high? Are you sure you understand what hypogonadism is and why TRT is prescribed? It’s for men who either have low LH levels, low test levels, or both.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

What’s the pros and cons? I’m trying to prevent HPTA shutdown.

You can't have it both ways.
If you want a life on hormones that brings you satisfaction, you have to befriend the idea your testicular and hpta functions will be lowered.

 

[SonhoDourado]

Natesto has been studied and is very safe in regards to toal T elevation and keeping the HPTA online. It's a nasal gel you apply 2-3 times a day and is about 11mg of Test per application. Im in month 3 of PCT after 9 years of TRT for a pregnancy protocol . My reproductive urologist offered it if i crashed or felt like crap.He said he's used in in hundreds of men and bodybuilders and have had no issues with the down regulation of the HPTA. There's a few studies on its efficacy and it has very very minor lowering of sperm count and motility.

It kicks in within an hour, which would really be great for pre workout and bedroom activities! Im trying to stay with the hcg/clomid combo he's got me on. I think Natesto would be great but i feel in my case i'd be tempted to get back on the real stuff. Best bet is to keep the course until my wife is pregnant!

 

[kakaboom!21]

If you don’t want to blast and cruise like most do, just do long cycles of 26-30 weeks and lower dosages with less suppressive compounds (not 19-Nors), then come off everything for 3-4 months and use HCG/HMG to restore testicular function. It won’t be sufficient to get your HTPA working again though. Then go back on a cycle.
Doing all this sublingual thing as a means to avoid doing proper TRT is going to make your hormones way more messed up than you think they already are. Reason why I pin more frequently than my esters require, I don’t like the constant fluctuations cause they give me sides.
Remember, half life may be only 2-4 hours, but active life is 5x of that. So you will still eventually shut yourself down and cause neurological changes.

If you do what you do you get worst of both worlds. You won’t experience full benefits of TRT, while still getting the sides of taking exogenous hormones.

 

[Testocyp]

So you want to come off TRT, to go on TRT?

I'm lost with this post

Exogenous testosterone in any form will suppress HPTA e.g, your natural production.

If you want high "natural test levels" look into optimization via diet and natural supplemention. Also some long term SERM + HCG therapy.

I don’t want to replace my own testosterone, only supplement for what’s lacking. I’ve tried to optimize my own T for years, with success, however my free T is still in the lower range while LH and SHBG is being elevated. Since my natty levels isn’t too bad, supplementing a smaller amount without shutting down HPTA would be ideal.

I got on TRT because I thought it was the only solution, however after reading about Natesto it seem to me it’s actually possible to remain HPTA function when taking exogenous test.

 

[Testocyp]

So, firstly 250mg isn’t really TRT because your levels are almost certainly supraphisiological. My levels were over 52 nmol (1500ng/dl) on similar dosing.

Secondly why are you worried about shutdown if you’re already shut down? Why PCT and then continue taking test while trying to avoid the inevitable downregulation of your HPTA? Why not just stay shut down and use testosterone in whatever way you want?

Thirdly you were hyogondal but your total T and LH were high? Are you sure you understand what hypogonadism is and why TRT is prescribed? It’s for men who either have low LH levels, low test levels, or both.

This is true my levels are supraphysiological now, T 48 nmol/l and SHBG 36 nmol/l.

The main reasons is for fertility and to restore production of other hormones that rely on LH, such as progesterone, DHEA (and likely more hormones than that, I’ve read for example that the body produce a natural form av nandrolone that’s also shut down on exogenous T).

Another reason is the convenience of just applying a few sublingual drops. Not that an injection a week is hard to do, but I don’t have testosterone on prescription so I can’t take it with me when traveling. A nasal spray with testosterone base could easily and stealthy be taking with me wherever I go.

I have compensated (primary) hypogonadism (high LH, low/normal T). My total T is high, but my SHBG is also high so my free T is pretty low. Let’s say I can produce 85% of my T naturally, the other 15% that’s lacking is what make my LH borderline high. So ideally I would supplement those 15% with exogenous T, without shutting down the other 85%.

 

[Testocyp]

Natesto has been studied and is very safe in regards to toal T elevation and keeping the HPTA online. It's a nasal gel you apply 2-3 times a day and is about 11mg of Test per application. Im in month 3 of PCT after 9 years of TRT for a pregnancy protocol . My reproductive urologist offered it if i crashed or felt like crap.He said he's used in in hundreds of men and bodybuilders and have had no issues with the down regulation of the HPTA. There's a few studies on its efficacy and it has very very minor lowering of sperm count and motility.

It kicks in within an hour, which would really be great for pre workout and bedroom activities! Im trying to stay with the hcg/clomid combo he's got me on. I think Natesto would be great but i feel in my case i'd be tempted to get back on the real stuff. Best bet is to keep the course until my wife is pregnant!

I’ve read this too about Natesto, and Natesto is basically nasal testo base. If Natesto doesn’t shut you down, sublingual drops of testobase shouldn’t shut you down neither. Provided it’s absorbed in a similar manner..

 

[mr.redpill]

supplementing a smaller amount without shutting down HPTA would be ideal.

Not possible.

it seem to me it’s actually possible to remain HPTA function when taking exogenous test.

Wrong.

Those studies on Natesto look at short term use. Long term it will suppress. Just like any other form of test.

You're all over the place dude.

You want to come off TRT. But you want to keep your natty function...But you want to supplement with other forms of exogenous testosterone...But you want to use enough to have high T levels...w/o suppressing HPTA function.

You're dreaming dude. You sound neurotic. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful bro I just have no filter. Pardon me.

You're going to put yourself through a full PCT just to suppress yourself again.

If your natty levels are shit, and you have the means to TRT, just TRT...?

 

[hallomonde]

I think you should accept the fact that you can't have supra physiological levels of test without suppressing yourself, after that it's up to you to make a decision.

Maybe later this will be possible but currently, it isn't.

 

[I6JQdr06]

I got on TRT because I thought it was the only solution

The only solution to what? Having high-normal levels of test? Maybe I’m missing something but I still don’t understand what you’re trying to achieve.

You’re young and you’ve got healthy hormones. You don’t sound like you’re into going supraphysiological for performance or image purposes; that would make sense. Or maybe you do and you’re not saying?

Basically what are you unhappy with?