switching from nolva to letro for gyno?

[ChuckSipes]

i had gyno under my left nip that was pretty big and brutal, smashed nolva for a while there and its basically shrunk 90% of it down, but now i've developed it in my right nip..

i've received my letro in the mail, i've been searching for a protocol to follow but cant find a definitive answer.. is it something to start at a low dose and taper up?? My friend told me to just take one 2.5mg tablet ED until the gyno disappears but i know better than trusting a mate before asking on here..

the tablets are fucking TINY so going to be difficult to cut.. i've read the letro can really knock you around if you use too much..


thanks in advance

 

[ChuckSipes]

i forgot to mention i'm also running 600deca, 500test and 50 mg dbol

 

[weighted chinup]

Why switch from nolva to a less effective treatment?

 

[penche]

I searched high and low for killing gyno. Everyone is different when comes to this subject just like everyone reacts different to compounds.

I was on nearly 1gram test
Dbol 50 day then added some NPP. Gyno came very fast. I was on nolva/adex from the start, increased dosage on nolva and nothing.

Hopped on letro at 2.5 per day and killed it within 7 days. Taper off..

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

Raloxofene is , imo, the MOSt effective option. It blocks e2 at the recptor in brest tissue more effectiveely than nolva.
I too am not a fan of letro and crashing e2 systemically to treat gyno when you can use ralox and block it at the site.

 

[Docd187123]

Agreed with WeightedChinup and Jimmy. SERM > AI

 

[penche]

Agreed with WeightedChinup and Jimmy. SERM > AI

Ok so educational debate here we go...

The source for gyno most of the time is high E2 or the person is subjective to 19nor progestin compounds? Amirite?

One should stop the progestin compounds possibly keep test going and eliminate the fire which is E2, correct?

Seems like Im a firm believer in crushing E2 and Fire is out. Letro combined with either nolva or Ralox is a good killer too.

Taper off and slowly add a less aggressive AI with a serm. Possibly not adex with nolva since its reduces adex potency by 27% study I found on women, can post later. Thoughts?

 

[Docd187123]

Ok so educational debate here we go...

The source for gyno most of the time is high E2 or the person is subjective to 19nor progestin compounds? Amirite?

The cause of gyno is unknown as far as I know but it's thought to be from high e2 or skewed T:E ratios.

One should stop the progestin compounds possibly keep test going and eliminate the fire which is E2, correct?

Any compound that aromatizes or interacts with the estradiol receptor can cause gyno not just progestins.

Seems like Im a firm believer in crushing E2 and Fire is out. Letro combined with either nolva or Ralox is a good killer too.

If you're using nolva or ralox there is absolutely no need for letro or any other AI.

Taper off and slowly add a less aggressive AI with a serm. Possibly not adex with nolva since its reduces adex potency by 27% study I found on women, can post later. Thoughts?

There's no need to taper and adex and nolva can be combined. Nolva reduces serum concentrations of adex in the blood correct but this was shown to not affect the efficacy of the adex at all so combining them, only when warranted, is a non-issue.

 

[penche]

The cause of gyno is unknown as far as I know but it's thought to be from high e2 or skewed T:E ratios.



Any compound that aromatizes or interacts with the estradiol receptor can cause gyno not just progestins.



If you're using nolva or ralox there is absolutely no need for letro or any other AI.



There's no need to taper and adex and nolva can be combined. Nolva reduces serum concentrations of adex in the blood correct but this was shown to not affect the efficacy of the adex at all so combining them, only when warranted, is a non-issue.

The goal here is to reduce or eliminate breast tissue. Check out these studies let me know what you think.

http://m.jco.ascopubs.org/content/21/11/2101.abstract

Abstract
Purpose: To analyze overall survival (OS) and update efficacy data for letrozole versus tamoxifen as first-line therapy in postmenopausal women with locally advanced or metastatic breast cancer.

Patients and Methods: This multicenter phase III trial randomly assigned 916 patients with hormone receptor–positive or unknown tumors letrozole 2.5 mg (n = 458) or tamoxifen 20 mg (n = 458) daily until disease progression. Optional cross-over was permitted at the treating physician’s discretion. This report updates efficacy at a median follow-up of 32 months.

Results: The superiority of letrozole to tamoxifen was confirmed for time to progression (median, 9.4 v 6.0 months, respectively; P < .0001), time to treatment failure (median, 9 v 5.7 months, respectively; P < .0001), overall objective response rate (32% v 21%, respectively; P = .0002), and overall clinical benefit. Median OS was slightly prolonged for the randomized letrozole arm (34 v 30 months, respectively). Although this difference in OS is not significant, survival was improved in the randomized letrozole arm over the first 2 years of the study. Approximately one half of the patients in each arm crossed over. Total duration of endocrine therapy (“time to chemotherapy”) was significantly longer (P = .005) for patients initially on letrozole (median, 16 months) than for patients initially on tamoxifen (median, 9 months). Time to worsening of Karnofsky performance score was significantly delayed with letrozole compared with tamoxifen (P = .001).

Conclusion: This study documents the superiority of letrozole over tamoxifen in first-line endocrine therapy in postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer.

Study Confirms Letrozole Prevents More Breast Cancer Recurrences than Tamoxifen

In 2005, preliminary results from the trial showed that letrozole alone was better than tamoxifen at preventing early recurrences, and when given the option to cross over, 619 of the 2,459 women in the tamoxifen-only arm chose to cross over to receive letrozole. Since crossover can complicate interpretation of trial results, the researchers performed a traditional intention-to-treat analysis (which includes only data from the original treatment assignments) and a type of analysis designed to account for crossover.

http://www.cancernetwork.com/articles/letrozole-superior-tamoxifen-2-studies

NEW YORK—Letrozole (Femara) was found to be superior to tamoxifen (Nolvadex) in the largest study ever conducted of endocrine therapy in advanced breast cancer, Matthew J. Ellis, MD, PhD, clinical director of the Duke University Breast Cancer Program, said at the XVIII Chemotherapy Foundation Symposium. Median time to progression was 41 weeks for letrozole vs 26 weeks for tamoxifen (P = .0001), he said. - See more at: http://www.cancernetwork.com/articles/letrozole-superior-tamoxifen-2-studies#sthash.0TMNd79K.dpuf


This study, he said "supports the idea that letrozole is significantly more active than tamoxifen in this completely treatment-naïve population."

- See more at: http://www.cancernetwork.com/articles/letrozole-superior-tamoxifen-2-studies#sthash.0TMNd79K.dpuf

 

[Docd187123]

The goal here is to reduce or eliminate breast tissue. Check out these studies let me know what you think.

http://m.jco.ascopubs.org/content/21/11/2101.abstract



Study Confirms Letrozole Prevents More Breast Cancer Recurrences than Tamoxifen



http://www.cancernetwork.com/articles/letrozole-superior-tamoxifen-2-studies

Breast cancer and gyno are completely different issues.

 

[penche]

Breast cancer and gyno are completely different issues.

But the same drugs are used to combat cancer as those to gyno. Am I missing something here? Not trying to cause arguement just educational debate.

raloxifene: It can also decrease the risk of breast cancer in postmenopausal women who have osteoporosis or a high risk of breast cancer.

Tamoxifen: It can treat breast cancer.

 

[Docd187123]

Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen.
Khan HN, et al. Breast. 2004.
Show full citation
Abstract
AIMS: We aimed to confirm suggestions that tamoxifen therapy alone may resolve physiological gynaecomastia.

METHODS: A prospective audit of the outcome of tamoxifen routinely given to men with physiological gynaecomastia was carried out at Nottingham. Men referred with gynaecomastia had clinical signs recorded, e.g., type (diffuse 'fatty' or retro-areolar 'lump'), size and possible aetiology. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. On follow-up patients were assessed for complete resolution (CR), partial resolution where patient is satisfied with outcome (PR) or no resolution (NR). Success was either CR or PR.

RESULTS: Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. Median age was 31 (range 18-64). Tenderness was present in 25 (71%) cases. Sixteen men (45%) had 'fatty' gynaecomastia and 20 had 'lump' gynaecomastia. Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041).

CONCLUSIONS: Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

PMID
14759718 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text

 

[Docd187123]

Tamoxifen to treat male pubertal gynaecomastia

 

[Docd187123]

Evaluation of tamoxifen and anastrozole in the prevention of gynecomastia and breast pain induced by bicalutamide monotherapy of prostate cancer.
Randomized controlled trial
Boccardo F, et al. J Clin Oncol. 2005.
Show full citation
Abstract
PURPOSE: To determine whether tamoxifen or anastrozole prevents gynecomastia and breast pain caused by bicalutamide (150 mg) without compromising efficacy, safety, or sexual functioning.

PATIENTS AND METHODS: A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed in patients with localized, locally advanced, or biochemically recurrent prostate cancer. Patients (N = 114) were randomly assigned to either bicalutamide (150 mg/d) plus placebo or in combination with tamoxifen (20 mg/d) or anastrozole (1 mg/d) for 48 weeks. Gynecomastia, breast pain, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), sexual functioning, and serum levels of hormones were assessed.

RESULTS: Gynecomastia developed in 73% of patients in the bicalutamide group, 10% of patients in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group, and 51% of patients in the bicalutamide-anastrozole group (P < .001); breast pain developed in 39%, 6%, and 27% of patients, respectively (P = .006). Baseline PSA level decreased by > or = 50% in 97%, 97%, and 83% of patients in the bicalutamide, bicalutamide-tamoxifen, and bicalutamide-anastrozole groups, respectively (P = .07); and adverse events were reported in 37%, 35%, and 69% of patients, respectively (P = .004). There were no major differences among treatments in sexual functioning parameters from baseline to month 6. Elevated testosterone levels occurred in each group; however, free testosterone levels remained unchanged in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group because of increased sex hormone-binding globulin levels.

CONCLUSION: Anastrozole did not significantly reduce the incidence of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain. In contrast, tamoxifen was effective, without increasing adverse events, at least in the short-term follow-up. These data support the need for a larger study to determine any effect on mortality.

PMID
15681525 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text

 

[Docd187123]

Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[Seven]

I've had good luck with Ralox at 60mg ED...I've been on it for two months. Plan is to run it one yr to forever.

Dbol sounds horrible, I'll never run it.

 

[Seven]

Medscape: Medscape Access

Link ask for username and password.

 

[Docd187123]

Link ask for username and password.

Weird it works fine for me. I'll copy and paste

 

[Docd187123]

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[penche]

Good talk doc. I didn't respond quickly to nolva and it didn't do much for me. I will keep it in my Arsenal and will try Ralox soon. I attack from all angles when it comes to gyno. Kill the fire E2 and cap the receptors(nolva or Ralox). Minus using caber