TAKE A BREAK

[malfeasance]

Your body needs breaks from steroids.

This is important.

No, you aren't going to lose all your gainz from taking a break. Your size will come roaring back almost immediately at the next cycle.

"The patient presented with markedly elevated LDL (596 mg/dl) and depressed HDL (14 mg/dl) yet had no family history of premature atherosclerosis or cardiac events. Within a month of discontinuing AAS, his LDL decreased to 220 mg/dl and his HDL increased to 35 mg/dl." This was a 22 year old. I am quoting this only to show the importance of doing blood tests, and, more importantly, the importance of taking breaks rather than cruising on elevated hormone levels out of fear of losing size.

Note that the improvements still aren't such a great result, as the LDL number is still very elevated. But this break was only for a month. Breaks should probably be quite a bit longer, or at least long enough to allow lipids to normalize and then let your body enjoy the benefits of sitting there with normal lipids for an extended period of time.

Take a break!!!

It is bad for your cardiovascular system to have things out of whack all the time.

Thanks to @Millard for sharing this study


Oh, and, no, your 250mg of testosterone a week is not giving the body a break. Note the improvement above occurred with the bodybuilder injecting nothing at all. Even 100mg a week is at the high end.

 

[malfeasance]

Oh, by the way, if you read the linked study, that 22 year old bodybuilder stopped steroids only because he had "an acute MI."

MI = Myocardial Infarction

This is fancy doctor talk for a heart attack. Basically it is a blocked coronary artery.

I don't want any of you reading to have "an acute MI" as your impetus for finally taking a break.

Take it now.

Cycles should be the minority of the year, not the majority of your year.

Take breaks. Plan them. Live long and be healthy.

 

[malfeasance]

On the dose for a break.

Around here we think 200mg is low.

It's not really giving your body a break.

200mg of testosterone a week has bad effects on your heart.


"Chung et al82 conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebocontrolled study in which 30 healthy men were separated into 3 groups receiving weekly testosterone 200 mg, nandrolone decanoate 200 mg, or matching placebo injections for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks, blinded echocardiography showed that only the testosterone group had a significant increase in LV end-systolic diameter, although this remained within the normal range."

For those of you who want to focus on the note at the end that the enlargement was still "within the normal range," note that this was a very short study. 4 weeks. In other words, a mere 4 injections of 200mg of testosterone caused "a significant increase."

Would it have continued to increase with each subsequent injection until it went out of the normal range?

We don't know, as the 4 week duration is a significant limitation of the study cited, but "a significant increase" is the opposite direction from where we are trying to go with a break.

No, fellow gym rat, your 200mg of testosterone a week is not a break.

 

[Benf15harp]

Gotta admit…this is funny.

 

[malfeasance]

In what way?

 

[JC Grifter]

Great post brother. I really hope people listen

 

[malfeasance]

Great post brother. I really hope people listen

Most won't listen, but at least there is something for them to read and consider.

 

[marsupial]

Glad to see you say it, but I think what ultimately makes people hesitate is, if they’re far above their natty+ potential (ie with new myonuclei and tissue considered), they’re gonna lose a ton of gains quite fast by coming off. That + many can’t handle the beginning of pct, and then others struggle even more after 2 weeks of the pct period, clomid sides wreak havoc on some guys’ mental health, etc etc

 

[marsupial]

Oh, by the way, if you read the linked study, that 22 year old bodybuilder stopped steroids only because he had "an acute MI."

MI = Myocardial Infarction

This is fancy doctor talk for a heart attack. Basically it is a blocked coronary artery.

I don't want any of you reading to have "an acute MI" as your impetus for finally taking a break.

Take it now.

Cycles should be the minority of the year, not the majority of your year.

Take breaks. Plan them. Live long and be healthy.

Yea MI in your 20s = your life is over. From then on you have to worry about your health far more than you could imagine

 

[malfeasance]

Glad to see you say it, but I think what ultimately makes people hesitate is, if they’re far above their natty+ potential (ie with new myonuclei and tissue considered), they’re gonna lose a ton of gains quite fast by coming off. That + many can’t handle the beginning of pct, and then others struggle even more after 2 weeks of the pct period, clomid sides wreak havoc on some guys’ mental health, etc etc

It is in their head. It is a fear because many of them have never tried. I have a thread here somewhere about my struggles to lose size after I decided to stop bodybuilding (to decrease blood pressure). It is harder than one might think to drop size so quickly. The body likes to stay in the same state without change. If you are 220-250 pounds and have held that weight for some years, you aren't going to magically drop down to 196 pounds in 8 weeks while being consistent with nutrition and training.

An IFBB pro who posts here on this web site posted about how he personally stops everything for a month. Not even testosterone. Now if there is a guy who has something to fear from losing size, it would be a competitor at that level, and yet he does it, anyway. Why? Does the non-IFBB pro reading here have anything to learn from that IFBB pro?

Try it.

Maybe 100mg a week for 8-12 weeks. Keep your bodybuilding diet. Keep lifting. Keep doing cardio. Run blood tests. Figure out whether your body is in good shape. Your heart. Your arteries. Your organs. Your blood pressure.

You'll feel better, too.

Then run your next cycle.

 

[JeffroCat]

I don't want any of you reading to have "an acute MI" as your impetus for finally taking a break.

Unfortunately this has to be the reality for a lot of people. The wheels fall off eventually. I don't care who you are.

 

[narta]

Steroid abuse is a factor that negatively impacts health. That's a fact. BUT how much is still a question mark.

The ONLY surefire way of establishing that, would be to take a sustantial number of identical twins with various health risk bacjgrounds, one on steroids and the other on placebo. Same diet, same exercise regiment, same living conditions, the only differentiating facto being the AAS.

But that's outside the realm of possible.

I 'd say, take your bloodwork and work off that and look at your genetic predispositions. If you have a high risk of CVD, stay low dosages and watch your markers. And drop down to TRUE TRT for a few months in between.

 

[DECLAN]

So are you saying even guys on legit trt should stop for a few months? If so, is it worth the hormonal imbalance and hypogonadal symptoms?

Some guys cannot stop trt not because of gains but because the thought of reverting to becoming non functional in their daily activities is more important to them than anything especially if their doctor approves it.

 

[marsupial]

It is in their head. It is a fear because many of them have never tried. I have a thread here somewhere about my struggles to lose size after I decided to stop bodybuilding (to decrease blood pressure). It is harder than one might think to drop size so quickly. The body likes to stay in the same state without change. If you are 220-250 pounds and have held that weight for some years, you aren't going to magically drop down to 196 pounds in 8 weeks while being consistent with nutrition and training.

An IFBB pro who posts here on this web site posted about how he personally stops everything for a month. Not even testosterone. Now if there is a guy who has something to fear from losing size, it would be a competitor at that level, and yet he does it, anyway. Why? Does the non-IFBB pro reading here have anything to learn from that IFBB pro?

Try it.

Maybe 100mg a week for 8-12 weeks. Keep your bodybuilding diet. Keep lifting. Keep doing cardio. Run blood tests. Figure out whether your body is in good shape. Your heart. Your arteries. Your organs. Your blood pressure.

You'll feel better, too.

Then run your next cycle.

Hmm so you’re saying cruising is an option too? Just fyi, the “reversal studies” you reference have everyone coming off entirely. I don’t think there’s been a study that checks if cruising enables reversal of roid sides. I would honestly imagine that the beginning period of pct where you’re straight up castrated is the most therapeutic part of it in terms of reversal of things like LVH, septal size, etc

 

[marsupial]

So are you saying even guys on legit trt should stop for a few months? If so, is it worth the hormonal imbalance and hypogonadal symptoms?

Some guys cannot stop trt not because of gains but because the thought of reverting to becoming non functional in their daily activities is more important to them than anything especially if their doctor approves it.

Honestly dude, 90% of people on trt would’ve increased their levels naturally anyway if they lowered their body fat. When I was natty I got TT levels for fun sometimes, and they were always noticeably higher when I was leaner.

I think everyone on trt should try being lean and then coming off for a bit. If they truly can’t bounce back, then go back on

 

[JC Grifter]

Most won't listen, but at least there is something for them to read and consider.

If even just one person is positively affected, the post was worth writing.

 

[MindlessWork]

Thanks for sharing this and this ought to go double or triple for the older guys too. Life is way too short as it is.

 

[Isrrike]

Let me see if I can find my online report of my cardiac mri after using and abusing gear since 16 years old and what my heart was when I finally got it checked . Then now finally changing my habits and getting off gear and just now after 2 years of getting on a trt dose has my heart slowly changed back to normal. Scary shit man.

Edit: here they are. 1st two images are 2018. Only being on 400 test after years of blasting and cruising not taking healthy steps to reduce sides and no cardio.

Second 2 pictures are from 2020 while running 25mg Ed of tren ace. Take note of the measurements of the weight and size of the heart.

 

[Isrrike]

Now for fun let’s take a look at people who smoked cigarettes and gear such as myself stupidly. This was on no hormones at all and smoking a pack a day of cigarettes.

As of today I have not smoked for 6 months and my last echo has my ejection fraction back to 64% with everything innnormal range and a resting hr of 70. Taking 2.5mg nebivolol and 5mg Ramipril.

 

[DECLAN]

Honestly dude, 90% of people on trt would’ve increased their levels naturally anyway if they lowered their body fat. When I was natty I got TT levels for fun sometimes, and they were always noticeably higher when I was leaner.

I think everyone on trt should try being lean and then coming off for a bit. If they truly can’t bounce back, then go back on

Great sentiment, but if you are over 40, overweight and have no energy to juggle between work, family life and the gym which led to your situation in the first place, how do you expect to go about this naturally?

I'm not making excuses, but isn't trt designed for you to optimize your hormonal health in order to make your journey to healthier well-being effectively and efficiently? So, to suggest that you can do this naturally is kinda frustrating to some folks.

Endocrinologist and urologist are backwards on their approach already and their protocols are already out of date, I think our goal here is to provide proven anecdotal evidence so folks don't have to experiment on themselves.