Test-dht derivative ratio

[accidentaljedi173]

Where is the EQ? Or deca/npp? Or orals?

Low test is fine if you arent after the mass monster status but you need to sub in a heavy hitter. Mast and Primo are not it unless you are willing to bump those doses up but that will have its own side effects, especially in a low test environment.

Thing is, from the complaints you have about your 500mg test cycle, you dont need to go low test. You need to give your body time to adapt.

Tren gave me cystic acne my first go or two. Never again after that. Test, use to break me out above trt dose. I can sit on 750mg with clear skin now. Let the body adapt.


Edit

You said it yourself earlier, 250mg test with 250mg Mast was your best cycle to date. Replicate it... bump the dose.

500mg test 500mg mast. Dose AI as needed (bloodwork is cheap until you figure out how much you need) and you wont have acne problems.

I honestly think your right on this. I feel like my best options are a 1:1 with mast/test. I just counted the rest of my AI and am planning to run 500 test. I will most likely titrate to 500mg instead of going straight to it like my first cycle with it. I might be over complicating a simple cycle that I already have the answers to.

 

[Greenbay68]

What are your blood markers on a dose like that with primo?

I did not check unfortunately. Probably single digits. As far as primo goes, the only test i've done showed that 200/100 test primo had my T is 1017 and e2 is 39. my most recent test was 200 test only, and my T was 1030 and e2 was 56. all at trough.

 

[Juicedhead]

running moderate test and high primo is actually pretty common amongst pros in the off season. Also moderate test and high EQ is common.

 

[Greenbay68]

running moderate test and high primo is actually pretty common amongst pros in the off season. Also moderate test and high EQ is common.

I agree with this from what my friends have/do run.

I think the key here is moderate test, meaning enough to spill over into heavier aromatization territory.

 

[Eddie.]

Ok, so today i did bloodwork after 30 days on primo to assess what does it do to my e2.

In my previous bloodwork my e2 was 106pg/ml on 210mg test and 3 X 500 IU HCG per week despite the 6,25 aromasin e3d. After that bloodwork i stopped HCG, kept the same amount of test for a week and took 12,5mg aromasin eod (for that week) to lower further the e2.

After that week as i started my cutting miniblast i raised test to 275 and added 150 primo without any AI or HCG. A month in this protocol put my e2 at 35pg/ml and it kinda shocked me. I wasn't expecting this amount of aromatase inhibition considering i'm kinda high aromatiser. I was a little anxious because if it didn't reduced estrogens on me as some guys mention by running moderate test and high primo {is it really primo?} i would be again in 100+ e2.

It would be more optimal to see e2 at 60-70 though because sometime further down the road i could push primo higher to lets say 1/1 ratio but that's not gonna happen.

Although it's way to soon to speak for cosmetic and visual changes, considering i'm pinning sq and it takes a little longer, i already start noticing some fullness which might be from both the raised test as well as primo even with chopped carbs due to deficit and some vascularity.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Ok, so today i did bloodwork after 30 days on primo to assess what does it do to my e2.

In my previous bloodwork my e2 was 106pg/ml on 210mg test and 3 X 500 IU HCG per week despite the 6,25 aromasin e3d. After that bloodwork i stopped HCG, kept the same amount of test for a week and took 12,5mg aromasin eod (for that week) to lower further the e2.

After that week as i started my cutting miniblast i raised test to 275 and added 150 primo without any AI or HCG. A month in this protocol put my e2 at 35pg/ml and it kinda shocked me. I wasn't expecting this amount of aromatase inhibition considering i'm kinda high aromatiser. I was a little anxious because if it didn't reduced estrogens on me as some guys mention by running moderate test and high primo {is it really primo?} i would be again in 100+ e2.

It would be more optimal to see e2 at 60-70 though because sometime further down the road i could push primo higher to lets say 1/1 ratio but that's not gonna happen.

Although it's way to soon to speak for cosmetic and visual changes, considering i'm pinning sq and it takes a little longer, i already start noticing some fullness which might be from both the raised test as well as primo even with chopped carbs due to deficit and some vascularity.

Great info here. Would adding hcg back into the stack bring e2 back up a bit? What was the purpose of stopping the hcg?

 

[Eddie.]

Great info here. Would adding hcg back into the stack bring e2 back up a bit? What was the purpose of stopping the hcg?

Thanks bud. HCG will definitely raise my e2. Also i forgot to mention that i'm taking 25mg DHEA per day since i started doing gear which contributes to some aromatization as well, probably a little, but without the DHEA my e2 might be a tad lower.

I stopped HCG because it didn't do what i was expecting, which was mainly for bringing my balls back to normal and have that extra well being effect that many have, or increase semen volume etc. Although i must say i have a varicocele and i was informed that HCG might not have any effect on my testicles. I tried both UGL and Merck ovitrelle, the latter did a fraction of what i was expecting and i really came to a point and realise it doesn't worth running it constandly. Pharma HCG cost me twice as running 210mg pharma test per week over a month period. I might use again if i notice my libido is pure shit and forced to try anything or if i screw it up and nuke my e2. Otherwise since i'm planning to bnc it's not worth it. I'll probably stay with DHEA and pregnenolone for getting the neurosteroid benefits.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Thanks bud. HCG will definitely raise my e2. Also i forgot to mention that i'm taking 25mg DHEA per day since i started doing gear which contributes to some aromatization as well, probably a little, but without the DHEA my e2 might be a tad lower.

I stopped HCG because it didn't do what i was expecting, which was mainly for bringing my balls back to normal and have that extra well being effect that many have, or increase semen volume etc. Although i must say i have a varicocele and i was informed that HCG might not have any effect on my testicles. I tried both UGL and Merck ovitrelle, the latter did a fraction of what i was expecting and i really came to a point and realise it doesn't worth running it constandly. Pharma HCG cost me twice as running 210mg pharma test per week over a month period. I might use again if i notice my libido is pure shit and forced to try anything or if i screw it up and nuke my e2. Otherwise since i'm planning to bnc it's not worth it. I'll probably stay with DHEA and pregnenolone for getting the neurosteroid benefits.

That's fair. Ive never personally tried hcg since I'm not concerned with fertility. As for the primo ratio I'm interested to see how much your e2 would go up if you raised your test a bit, and how much you'd actually need to basically double your e2.

 

[Eddie.]

That's fair. Ive never personally tried hcg since I'm not concerned with fertility. As for the primo ratio I'm interested to see how much your e2 would go up if you raised your test a bit, and how much you'd actually need to basically double your e2.

I will continue with 300 test 150 primo but i have a suspicion e2 might drop a little further. I'll see in next bloodwork.

I think with 450-500 test and 150 primo e2 might creep up to 70 if i wanted it that high. Otherwise i could pin 2-3 times per week and have some extra aromatization since now i'm pinning every day. Basically that would be the optimal with primo because with more infrequent pins you have better chances not crushing the SHBG.

With that much of aromatase inhibition primo would be suit perfectly in a test and npp cycle for off season. I might try it for my bulking blast in the winter, something like 350 test, 250 primo, 150 NPP

 

[Davidinovg]

I will continue with 300 test 150 primo but i have a suspicion e2 might drop a little further. I'll see in next bloodwork.

I think with 450-500 test and 150 primo e2 might creep up to 70 if i wanted it that high. Otherwise i could pin 2-3 times per week and have some extra aromatization since now i'm pinning every day. Basically that would be the optimal with primo because with more infrequent pins you have better chances not crushing the SHBG.

With that much of aromatase inhibition primo would be suit perfectly in a test and npp cycle for off season. I might try it for my bulking blast in the winter, something like 350 test, 250 primo, 150 NPP

Raise your T dose if u want more E2 or add other compounds: HCG, NPP.

Test, Primo and Npp is my favorite cycle.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

I will continue with 300 test 150 primo but i have a suspicion e2 might drop a little further. I'll see in next bloodwork.

I think with 450-500 test and 150 primo e2 might creep up to 70 if i wanted it that high. Otherwise i could pin 2-3 times per week and have some extra aromatization since now i'm pinning every day. Basically that would be the optimal with primo because with more infrequent pins you have better chances not crushing the SHBG.

With that much of aromatase inhibition primo would be suit perfectly in a test and npp cycle for off season. I might try it for my bulking blast in the winter, something like 350 test, 250 primo, 150 NPP

Maybe make a log, would be a good read

 

[Eddie.]

Raise your T dose if u want more E2 or add other compounds: HCG, NPP.

Currently i'm cutting so i don't find it urging enough to raise e2. Maybe if i will experience low e2 symptoms i'll reduce primo a tad. It's my first cycle and want to keep dosages relatively low.

Test, Primo and Npp is my favorite cycle.

Yeah that sounds fun! I just have to see how i'm handling nandrolone.

 

[Greenbay68]

Ok, so today i did bloodwork after 30 days on primo to assess what does it do to my e2.

In my previous bloodwork my e2 was 106pg/ml on 210mg test and 3 X 500 IU HCG per week despite the 6,25 aromasin e3d. After that bloodwork i stopped HCG, kept the same amount of test for a week and took 12,5mg aromasin eod (for that week) to lower further the e2.

After that week as i started my cutting miniblast i raised test to 275 and added 150 primo without any AI or HCG. A month in this protocol put my e2 at 35pg/ml and it kinda shocked me. I wasn't expecting this amount of aromatase inhibition considering i'm kinda high aromatiser. I was a little anxious because if it didn't reduced estrogens on me as some guys mention by running moderate test and high primo {is it really primo?} i would be again in 100+ e2.

It would be more optimal to see e2 at 60-70 though because sometime further down the road i could push primo higher to lets say 1/1 ratio but that's not gonna happen.

Although it's way to soon to speak for cosmetic and visual changes, considering i'm pinning sq and it takes a little longer, i already start noticing some fullness which might be from both the raised test as well as primo even with chopped carbs due to deficit and some vascularity.

I think dropping HCG dropped your e2 also. I can’t take HCG or it blows mine up. Unless you want kids, you don’t need it!

 

[Eddie.]

I think dropping HCG dropped your e2 also. I can’t take HCG or it blows mine up. Unless you want kids, you don’t need it!

It definitely did. On the other hand, HCG was raising my total test too quite much. With 210 test and 1500IU HCG per week i had 1450 test while on 275 test, 150 primo and no HCG my total test came out 1340.

I was taking HCG for the benefits of well being, neurosteroid balance, semen volume, improved libido, ball size etc.. But i doubt i'll take again. I wasn't planning to stay fertile in the first place as i already have impaired fertility from varicocele.