Test Prop: 'Active Life' vs. 'Half Life"

[Stretch]

Nah builder....thanks for having my back bro...

But he is trying to flame a new guy who DID characterize one of Scally's responses as nebulous.

At least that's what I assumed....if not, it's a crazy coincidence they both used such an abstract word.

 

[Stretch]

I'm 38.

Shark, got it.

I wish the good Dr. Scally would see fit to clarify his rather nebulous responses to my fairly direct original questions.

For that matter, can no one on this board give their simple opinions? I've read enough hundreds of hours of conflicting info.

When EXACTLY to start HCG, how much, what frequency, how long, and at what point to add SERM? It's a straight question to which there should be clear numerical answers.

Those answers are ASSUMED to be opinions based in experience, as this whole AAS rabbit hole is ever expanding territory and answers are not set in stone yet.

Instead, I'm met with silence, my questions are only answered with another question , or I'm admonished about my experience and dissected over my choices. All of that is actually appreciated, yet I'm baffled why I can get a straight answer to very straightforward,and numbered no less, questions, which we all know are opinions.

I am assuming this is actually the post pericles was referring to.

And it's from the thread about clarifying the DrScally's pct.

 

[youngBuilder]

Ahhh OK I see - but how the hell did it end up here? And why is he criticizing you (and me?) for it?

 

[Stretch]

Hell if I know. I am quite sure he wouldn't have been spouting off to two other vets without cause tho.

Apparently Pericles knocked a few(six packs) back last night ... Being the good Texan he is.

 

[youngBuilder]

Lol.

Well anyway, I was thinking more about the previous idea or assumption on starting NOLVA too early being counterproductive, and how that would be at all possible. I dont doubt that you have come across that statement somewhere on the forum, and I bet you it was also linked to the following assumptions, which would make it actually true:

1. Most consider PCT to last 4-weeks
2. Most typically [and incorrectly] start 2-weeks after last injection
3. Since we know that high doses with most long esters (enanthate/decaonate/etc.), starting after 2 weeks is early/useless because high-andro levels have not bottomed out yet.
4. And would probably not happen for another couple weeks, or "half-lives."
5. Therefore, it would be extremely counterproductive if you finished PCT at 4 weeks having started too early


What I didn't include on my original statement that starting too early was not counterproductive, was that I dont follow the "stop-after-4-weeks" rule of thumb. I stop when my labs say I can stop.

So starting PCT too early if counterproductive if it causes you to stop PCT too early. But perhaps it's not counterproductive as long as you carry it out long enough for HPTA restoration. Does this make sense?

**NOW, BEFORE I GET FLAMED: all of this is thrown out the window if you are requiring or using HCG. I do not use HCG because my cycles are only 2 weeks long and therefore my balls dont need jump starting. I assumed it before, but now I know it to be true since I've done these cycles before and I actually achieved HPTA restoration in under 2 weeks (back in 2007). And even back then, I always went over-board in length with PCT just to be sure.

For example, I would use Nolva on cycle and into first week of PCT for my gyno-paranoia. But my typical PCT was:
- Day 1: Clomid 100mgs
- Week 1: Clomid 50mgs/ED
- Week 2: Clomid 50mgs/ED
- Week 3: Clomid 25mgs/ED
- Week 4: Clomid 12.5mgs/ED
- Week 5: Clomid 12.5mgs/EOD

That seemed to do the trick. Also, Like I mentioned a few times on this forum, the average of all my labs POST AAS cycling (even 5 years later w/ abs no AAS) is double the average of all my labs before any AAS were ever used. Some labs indicating almost 3X. I cant assume to contribute that to the AAS or my abovementioned PCT protocol, but who knows...

 

[Pericles]

Hahaha.....lmfao....

You somehow read one thread and replied to another....no one said scally was nebulous in this thread...how did u manage that?

Ooops, sorry. You are correct, my comments were intended for another thread, post.

 

[Pericles]

Hell if I know. I am quite sure he wouldn't have been spouting off to two other vets without cause tho.

Apparently Pericles knocked a few(six packs) back last night ... Being the good Texan he is.

Naa, it was just my psych meds, lol. I made a deal w/ law enforcement 23 years ago: I would stop drinking, and they would stop arresting me.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Ooops, sorry. You are correct, my comments were intended for another thread, post.

Honorable, my good sir.

 

[Pericles]

Here is the thread: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134334189

 

[Pericles]

Ahhh OK I see - but how the hell did it end up here? And why is he criticizing you (and me?) for it?

Was not criticizing you at all my friend. Just had 2 windows open and posted in the wrong one.

 

[Stretch]

It is pointless, even counter-productive, to begin SERM application until exogenous T has cleared ur system.

Dr. Scally dealt with this in depth in a thread titled "doc and bbc" newbie23 was the author of that thread. I just reposted a link to it somewhere.

This was an erroneous statement by me. As YOUNGBUILDER already pointed out.


There have in fact been individualized cases where SERM's were applied clinically, and simultaneously with HCG.

Although, the most effective PCT (for the vast majority of us) is to apply SERM's after exogenous T has cleared, allowing serum T to fall to 375ng/dl or lower. I can find no clinical evidence of a SERM being counterproductive to this goal.

I think I may have been reversed some facts in my head but I won't digress into a lengthy explanation behind my error.

Suffice to say stretch F'd up.

 

[youngBuilder]

Was not criticizing you at all my friend. Just had 2 windows open and posted in the wrong one.

No worries buddy. I figured that once I saw the other thread.

 

[Pericles]

Here is how I introduce Serms/start pct. As mentioned, I will use the "Dr Scally power pct approach (I was actually doing this same methodology 20 years ago.....but since I am a Doc of mental masturbation, IE PhD, and Scally is a real doc/MD it is th SPPCT). My approach assumes that HCG was not used consistently throughout cycle (please correct me if I am wrong, Dr S).

So, by the end of the cycle, you are tapered down properly, and the family jewels are raisenetts. Start HCG, 1500-2k IUs eod (and Doc S, I think, may advocate etd). Start HCG 5 days after last shot of, say, t e. I have usually gone down to 100mg te e4d by this point. Run HCG for (assuming cycle was fairly heavy) for 20 days.

You are now 25 days past t e. I start Serms the day before the last shot of HCG. Of course HCG shuts you down, but it will clear quickly. I run about 150 mgs of Clomid for 5 days, then 100 for 5 days, and 30 mgs of Nolva for 10 days. At 10 days I will reduce Clomid to 70 mg, and nolva to 20 mg, and maintain these levels for 10 days.

I then go down to 35 and 10 respectively for 10 days. I may stay on 10 mg of nolva for another week.

BTW, I no longer use this protocol. It worked great for me for 13 years, until my mid 40s. I was completely natural for 5 years, then developed low t by late 40's. Today, my HPTA is very resistant to restoration, which is why I am on trt for good, running HCG for 3 weeks 3 times a year which are the only times I am 100% off gear.

 

[youngBuilder]

Why do you come off 3 times a year if you are on TRT? Isn't it meant to be for life?

 

[Pericles]

Why do you come off 3 times a year if you are on TRT? Isn't it meant to be for life?

A number of health related reasons...hematocrit being one (although I also may donate blood). Remember, I am only off for 3 weeks or so, during which time I run pretty large amounts of HCG.

 

[youngBuilder]

A number of health related reasons...hematocrit being one (although I also may donate blood). Remember, I am only off for 3 weeks or so, during which time I run pretty large amounts of HCG.

Nice, thanks for clarifying. I am interested in learning more about TRT for when I'll likely need it down the road in life.

What were you T-levels like before TRT? Do you attribute years of AAS as a contributor to it or just typical of age-related declines after 30's and 40's? I know you cannot know for sure, but what do you think?

 

[Pericles]

Nice, thanks for clarifying. I am interested in learning more about TRT for when I'll likely need it down the road in life.

What were you T-levels like before TRT? Do you attribute years of AAS as a contributor to it or just typical of age-related declines after 30's and 40's? I know you cannot know for sure, but what do you think?

I went off at age 43 (ran a good pct) and was fine/all natural for 5 more years. Had no problems in the bedroom....but that changed, so I went and got tested, T was 281 w/ even lower free T. In the 13 years prior (age 32-43) I did very, very conservative cycles (300 t, 200 EQ per week).

While I was competing, I really only ran 2 big cycles (IE 1.5- 2.5 k mgs per week).

Placed 2nd at 1 (was at about 1.5K of gear per week) and then the next year came back, running 2.5 k a week, and won. They were both NPC national qualifiers. They also were in CA, where the shows are tougher.

So yes, the gear probably contributed. However it is very common for men to have low T when they hit late 40's.