What’s up fellas new to meso but looking for some cycle advice. So this is what I have going on I’m 41 years old 225lbs 18%bf. This will be my 8th cycle but I haven’t used aas in almost 3 years. I was in a car accident right at the beginning of Covid was bed ridden for 3 months then when I got back on my feet all the gyms were closed down. Needless to say between bed ridden and no gym and everything locked down I ballooned up to a fat piece of lard clocking in at 333 pounds. Woke up one day got in the scale and realized I turned into a fat piece of shit and decided it was enough. That was a year ago and down over a hundred pounds and have peaked in my strength training or hit a plateau being all natty I should say. Anyways I’ve been doing 2 hours strength training 6 days a week at 5am making sure I hit everything twice a week and 4 nights a week after work I do 45 mins of jogging for cardio. I’m eating clean and doing about 1900 to 2100 calories a day as I’m still trying to shed fat while putting on lean muscle hitting my macros 40/40/20 eating nothing but clean organic food and some whey protein split into 5 meals a day. Cycle history is first few were test only cycles started with test cyp and then a test e. After that I discovered prop and never went back to long esters. Did a prop wing cycle and then after that I dipped my toe in the tren a pool and fell in love. Couple of those cycles and my last two were test prop tren a and mast p. Fast forward to today and on hand I have 4 bottles of test prop and 6 weeks worth of tbol if I don’t do more than 50 mg a day. Winny is the only oral I have ever done and this is my first go around with tbol. So I’m looking for dosing advice as it’s all over the place on these forums. I’ve seen 30 mg a day to a 100mg lol that’s a crazy gap. Also looking for suggestion for test prop dosing with this I was gonna do 75mg Ed but I’m wondering since I’m at 18% bf is that gonna drive my estrogen up. Maybe do 50 ed not sure. Also have adex on hand as well. Sorry for the book everyone just wanted to get as much info as possible out there I could think of. Thanks in advance for the advice bros!
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Jestopherson
Well-known Member
Tbol will is good at 40-60mg a day.
You're 225lbs only eating 1900 cals a day? What happens when you stall out? Drop to 1500? You won't put on any real lean tissue in a deficit like that, however the tbol will increase vascularity and make it appear like you are.
Are you just trying to cut? I'd run the test at 50mg ed for the cut. More than enough for a boost and to help maintain mass. Save the tbol for the end.
Whats the length of cycle?
You're 225lbs only eating 1900 cals a day? What happens when you stall out? Drop to 1500? You won't put on any real lean tissue in a deficit like that, however the tbol will increase vascularity and make it appear like you are.
Are you just trying to cut? I'd run the test at 50mg ed for the cut. More than enough for a boost and to help maintain mass. Save the tbol for the end.
Whats the length of cycle?
Yes trying to cut but still pack on some lean mass. Test prop I plan on running for 8 weeks and tbol for 6 weeks
OmL
Well-known Member
I fuckin love me some Tbol. I feel like Hercules himself using the stuff. For me, 40mg was my sweet spot but I only ever did it for 4 weeks, it’s the only thing I’ve done so far that raised my blood pressure.
Canknucklehead
Member
You have 40mL
So if you want to do 10 weeks that would be 4cc a week.
I would do 5cc a week maybe grab an extra bottle
So if you want to do 10 weeks that would be 4cc a week.
I would do 5cc a week maybe grab an extra bottle
Juicy AF
Member
I just ran 50mg TBol for 4 weeks to kickstart a test/Deca cycle. Immediate strength gains and muscle hardness.
Juicy AF
Member
TBol is one of those compounds where you don’t really know it’s doing anything until you come off. At least for me.
You could probably do 6 weeks if that was all you’re doing. I still saw some lingering benefits for another week after I stopped.
Did you keep your gains after you stopped
Jestopherson
Well-known Member
You won't.
Not in a deficit like that. Maybe a couple ounces of lean mass, but muscle doesn't come from thin air. You need energy and nutrients to build it. It's like trying to build a building with no materials.
Like I was saying 350mg a week is fine. Or you can pin like 70mg ed and go for 500ishmg a week.
Still finish with the tbol though..but as a cut cycle. 8 weeks is nothing. You should go for like 12
Jestopherson
Well-known Member
It doesn't really add mass. It's an endurance based drug. It'll up performance with with strength as well with some visual effects that last for as long as you take it.
OmL
Well-known Member
I’ve never ran prop before. I’m going to run a small bulk in February using test prop/Tren a and I’ll be using 30mg of each per day, as well as my 175mg test u cruise. I’m still gathering information.
Juicy AF
Member
These were subtle gains in strength increase and muscle hardness. My training blocks didn’t decrease in intensity, so I’ll say they’ve kept.
The Deca kicked in too, so the muscle hardness isn’t as evident right now.
Megadick3000
Well-known Member
Im going to second Jesto and say running a big deficit is going to obliterate your prospects for adding mass pretty mich no matter what cycle you run.
I think maybe you should just decide, mass or fat loss. Trying to achieve both is a much harder line to walk. Given your references to yourself as being a fat sack of shit id say your primary goal is fat loss. In that case i wouldnt ev3n touch AAS, id focus on a non-AAS cycle incorporating agents that better align with your goal.
If it was me (ive never been a fat sack of shit, ectomorph for the win) id be looking at Albuterol, HGH, yohimbine, green tea extract, fasting, cardio, even a ketogenic diet.
Id save the AAs for when you get to the leanness you seek, then focus on lean bulking yourself up from that point.
But whatever you do, best of luck to you.
I think maybe you should just decide, mass or fat loss. Trying to achieve both is a much harder line to walk. Given your references to yourself as being a fat sack of shit id say your primary goal is fat loss. In that case i wouldnt ev3n touch AAS, id focus on a non-AAS cycle incorporating agents that better align with your goal.
If it was me (ive never been a fat sack of shit, ectomorph for the win) id be looking at Albuterol, HGH, yohimbine, green tea extract, fasting, cardio, even a ketogenic diet.
Id save the AAs for when you get to the leanness you seek, then focus on lean bulking yourself up from that point.
But whatever you do, best of luck to you.
12 weeks of prop?? Do people actually do that?? That’s a whole lot of pinning. I’ve never done over 8 weeks. I didn’t know that was an option cause of the
I understand that I don’t think it comes out of thin air. But I have run 2500-2700 calories doing a test prop tren a cycle and 100% have shedded fat and added lean muscle. The two I understand are extremely hard to do but those two compounds let me achieve it I was hoping I could do it with tbol instead of tren as recovery time from tren became brutal for me. I’m on a daily at about 2100 about 275-300 g of protein a day the 1948 calorie day is mondays when I have a extremely low carb day around a 100grams of carbs for that day the rest of the week hovers at 2100 to 2150. I guess it’s not even the losing bf at this point right now I just don’t want to put any back on during cycle while adding lean muscle and I would be happy. Once your a fat piece of shit one time you never wanna go back to that ever again lol. I can always up my calories a little and work out longer. But everyone keeps saying something different about tbol some people it turns them into a beast and someone says it’s mild and you don’t notice it. So I’m not sure what to expect. And 12 weeks with prop?? Do people actually pin that much? I’m not sure about that the max I’ve ever done is 8 I think I went to 10 one time but I was pinning every other day and I remember I kind of fell off after the 8 weeks not really feeling it anymore.
Jestopherson
Well-known Member
What's wrong with 12 weeks of prop? How's it any different from 12 weeks of enanthate?
Also, how do you know you added lean mass? Body measurements or dexa? Or purely because you looked leaner and bigger. I come out of my cuts looking "more jacked" than my bulk purely because leanness and vascularity give the appearance of size.
Not being a dick just giving you the truth. If building and cutting was actually viable pros would never bulk. They would cut or run maintenance year round.
You'll have much better results just cutting then bulking on cycle. Besides. 8 weeks. Even in a surplus you'd add maybe 2lbs of actual muscle. Which Is a shit ton
I don’t think your being a dick at all bud. And I know because at that time I was going to a nutritionist once a month to keep my diet dialed in and she had a Tanita body comp machine there. Measures everything your bf% your muscle mass your hydration level everything you can imagine. And I dropped in 8 weeks a few percent in bf and put on a few pounds of muscle. No reason to make it up. Test p and tren a are a hell of a combo. I’m not gonna lie I don’t remember or not but I might have been on mast p at the time as well. Either or it is possible to do but what I’m getting from these two compounds it’s not gonna be. But I definitely appreciate your take and your advice that’s what I came here for and definitely have an open mind. I know myself and I’m not gonna pin every day for twelve weeks that’s a little much for me. So for 8 weeks what would you suggest for both compounds as far as dosing and I’m not gonna run the oral for more than 6.
Jestopherson
Well-known Member
You definitely don't have to pin every day. You could pin m/w/f
Gotta disagree with you there bro. You wanna keep your levels as stable as possible doing three days a week definitely throws you off. Eod is the bare minimum in my opinion but optimal is ed with prop. Also I lose out on two injection sites I can’t inject my quads. I don’t know what it is about prop in my quads but I cripples me for days on end so I’m stuck with glutes and delts rotation only hence why 12 weeks is a lot of pinning for me even eod if I chose to do that. Like I said in my original post this will be my 8th cycle most of mine have been prop(ed injections) so I have a lot of scar tissue built up and it gets painful.
